Static and black powder loading question...

[Croc Holiday]

I'm just about set up and ready to try my hand at loading some BP .  I was chatting with one of my more tech savvy co-workers about static and BP = bad.  He said "just get a grounding bracelet like PC tech's use."  I activated google and it's just a strap with a wire and a clip that you'd clip to a PC metal case.  You could clip it to some metal on your bench.  He also said you may even be able ground your presses.  Makes sense in theory.  But not all theory's are proven.  Anyone try this to mitigate static danger?

 

I guess while I'm askin...  What do y'all do to prevent static and how common is static when reloading?

 

Thanks! 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

The static claim and BP is BS.

Take this from one who has loaded BP for over 50 yrs.

The gasoline in your cars tank, is far more dangerous and more explosive.

You also asked the same question back in July. 

OLG

 

[Griff]

Let's see...  theory:  I've been loading BP in a progressive press for 32 years... and in a single-stage for a couple of years before that... no ground strap, nary an incident.  So my theory is that static and BP is a non-issue...

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

I’ll try to find a link to the test, but the static electricity and bp danger is bogus. The experiment used actual electric current much hotter than static and still couldn’t get it to ignite. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Info and pictures of real world tests.

https://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html

 

More info---

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/electric_ignition/eignition.html

 

OLG

[Croc Holiday]

OLG...  In my other post I asked about subs being safer than real BP.  I ran with the overwhelming "meh" response to BP being more dangerous.  This was more about static, which I'm still being told to watch out for.  Just being cautious and fact checking...

 

I found those links at lunch.  The effect of static on BP was underwhelming.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

I live in the Mojave where static 'cling' is an issue for consistent powder drop from any PM.

I have my press(Dillon 550)hard-wired to a dedicated GND rod.

Get some Goex Old 'E' in 2F and have fun.

BP cleanup of brass cases and firearms are a good bit different than smokeless.

OLG

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

I have gathered info on BP mishaps over the years.  The only one with a powder measure blowing involved Pyrodex, not BP (and Hodgdon says Pyro is safe to load in an automatic powder measure).  Others were a plastic lined wine bota filled with BP going off while a guy wore it on his hip, a guy loading sitting at a kitchen table while rubbing his bare feet on the carpet, and a couple instances of explosions while pouring old BP out in the yard (cloud ignition).  So, definitely treat it with care.

[Croc Holiday]

2 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

I live in the Mojave where static 'cling' is an issue for consistent powder drop from any PM.

I have my press(Dillon 550)hard-wired to a dedicated GND rod.

Get some Goex Old 'E' in 2F and have fun.

BP cleanup of brass cases and firearms are a good bit different than smokeless.

OLG

 

I've got Goex in 2F & 3F delivering next week.  

 

For cleaning cases, I was going the wet route instead of a tumbler.  Do you have a recommended cleaning method?  There's all sorts of different variations of soap, hot water and an acidic cleaner on the web.  I'm all ears if there's a magic formula that works well.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

De-prime and wet tumble in ceramic media after a soak in water and vinegar.

OLG

[Yusta B.]

Don't reload BP in a carpeted area......

[Lead Monger]

I have had static from people when I’m shooting BP loads but never been a real problem in the loading room. I don’t load ammunition during a lightning storm, smokeless or black when powder clings to the powder hopper. I know you can wipe the hopper with a drier sheet to kill the static but it just doesn’t feel right.  

[Tyrel Cody]

Croc get an aluminum hopper for your powder measure and take your time. 

[J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE]

Very little is necessary-but keep styrofoam away from the loading bench (even with smokeless) Be clean about your loading area and clean up any spills without procrastinating.  The grounding strap is not necessary, but if it makes you feel better use it.  Never smoke around your reloading gear, nor allow others to do so.  When priming, don't force it.  When loading if you meet abnormal resistance, stop and determine the cause and correct it before proceeding.  What you may gather so far is simply use common sense.

 

I've loaded BP on a 650 for years and even had a primer tube explosion with a hopper of BP on the press.  Hopper did not ignite thankfully, and by design it seems unlikely it would.  (I did upgrade to the aluminum hopper before the incident)-other than that, I just keep things clean and take my time. I do recommend emptying the hopper when you finish a reloading session and cleaning it out from time to time.

 

Brass care is likewise not as difficult as some make it out to be.  Soapy water will neutralize any fouling, so when I get home I dump my brass into an old laundry detergent bottle, add soap and water and shake it a bit, then drain it off into a safe place and rinse the brass.  Once drained, the brass gets tossed in old cardboard boxes and laid out in the sun to dry.  Tumble as desired for appearance, but if you don't mind dark brass it won't hurt anything (I have some cases that are nearly black, but still smooth)

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

1 hour ago, Tyrel Cody said:

Croc get an aluminum hopper for your powder measure and take your time. 

This one works great.......

 

 

OLG

[Tyrel Cody]

7 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

This one works great.......

 

 

OLG

 

Hard pass, much prefer an aluminum hopper.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Just now, Tyrel Cody said:

 

Hard pass, much prefer an aluminum hopper.

Your choice-Brass would be a better choice over alum. 

I like glass the best, no powder cling and you know how much powder you have.

OLG

 

[Tyrel Cody]

8 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Your choice-Brass would be a better choice over alum. 

I like glass the best, no powder cling and you know how much powder you have.

OLG

 

 

Yep, my choice. Glass breaks, don't want it anywhere near my reloading area. Before anyone suggests Pyrex won't break, you're wrong, I'll do it. Brass is heavier so not better imo. I've been using aluminum hoppers for 8 years now. They work, they aren't too expensive and I liket hem.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

32 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

Yep, my choice. Glass breaks, don't want it anywhere near my reloading area. Before anyone suggests Pyrex won't break, you're wrong, I'll do it. Brass is heavier so not better imo. I've been using aluminum hoppers for 8 years now. They work, they aren't too expensive and I liket hem.

Anything can be broken..... Just how does one break a Pyrex hopper?  Hope I don't find out-

What does the weight of a brass hopper vs alum. have to do with anything?

Sulfur and alum, are not friends. 

The early BP, PM's used brass hoppers as they do in today's BP, PM's.

 

OLG

 

 

[T-Square]

And who makes the best tumbler and media for cleaning black powder cases ?

[Matthew Duncan]

4 minutes ago, T-Square said:

And who makes the best tumbler and media for cleaning black powder cases ?

 

https://stainlesstumblingmedia.com/extreme-tumblers-rebel-17.html

[Rex M Rugers #6621]

There are several choices , one is probably as good as another. I have two Thumler's Tumblers , one about 40 years old , and another about 10 years. I did replace the motor on the older one some years back to the high-speed option. I have always used ceramic media , have felt no need to change. Some other pards use stainless steel pins , and they work very well , also.

Good luck with whatever you pick. 

Rex 

[T-Square]

Heck yeah, that Rebel 17 tumbler is on my Christmas List !!! Wow - so much better than what you see on Midway USA !

[LostVaquero]

I like SS pins as a magnet picks up any strays.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

13 hours ago, T-Square said:

And who makes the best tumbler and media for cleaning black powder cases ?

I've used this for well over 15yrs now.

Order it with the ceramic media kit.

https://shilohrifle.com/cleaning-supplies/thumler-tumbler-model-b/

 

OLG

[Rex M Rugers #6621]

1 hour ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

I've used this for well over 15yrs now.

Order it with the ceramic media kit.

https://shilohrifle.com/cleaning-supplies/thumler-tumbler-model-b/

 

OLG

That is the same stuff that I use (media) and have had better results with Dave Mauer's cleaner than any other. Have tried several brands of dish soap , but they just don't work as well for me.

Rex 

[Griff]

16 hours ago, T-Square said:

And who makes the best tumbler and media for cleaning black powder cases ?

I use a sonic cleaner, then when dry, tumble.  

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

1 hour ago, Rex M Rugers #6621 said:

That is the same stuff that I use (media) and have had better results with Dave Mauer's cleaner than any other. Have tried several brands of dish soap , but they just don't work as well for me.

Rex 

Agree 110% on using Dave's 'soap'.

I only use 1/4 tsp per 'run'.

OLG

[Bull Skinner]

I’m with J. Mark.

 

Shiny brass Is highly overrated. I use a 60 dollar Lyman tumbler and corn cob media. I throw a cap full of Brasso  in every so often.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

On 8/9/2019 at 7:47 PM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Sulfur and alum, are not friends. 

 

Really?

 

I have been using this Lyman Black Powder measure for at least 15 years. I have not noticed any deterioration of the aluminum hopper from contact with Black Powder.

 

On 8/9/2019 at 3:16 PM, Croc Holiday said:

I activated google and it's just a strap with a wire and a clip that you'd clip to a PC metal case.  You could clip it to some metal on your bench.  He also said you may even be able ground your presses.  Makes sense in theory.  But not all theory's are proven.  Anyone try this to mitigate static danger?

 

 

I worked in the electronics industry for over 20 years. Electro Static Discharge (ESD) is a huge concern with electronics because it can destroy delicate electronic components. Everybody in the assembly areas wore a wrist strap. However it is pointless unless you ground the machine AND the entire work station, including the bench. You have to ground your chair too. Otherwise, every time you move you develop a static charge, and every time you touch something the charge goes to ground.

 

Personally I will never put Black Powder into the plastic powder measure on my MEC Jr, because plastic will develop a static charge.

 

But I have been loading Black Powder with the rig in the photo above for a long time. The real value of this type of powder measure is the moving parts are brass, not steel. That way a mechanical spark, like the one generated when flint hits steel, will not be generated. Non-ferrous metals rubbing against ferrous metal, (like the iron body of the powder measure) will not generate a mechanical spark.

 

Not an electrical spark, a mechanical spark. When flint strikes steel, tiny hot glowing shards of flint break off, creating a mechanical spark. Electrical sparks are entirely different.

 

On 8/9/2019 at 5:51 PM, J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE said:

Soapy water will neutralize any fouling, so when I get home I dump my brass into an old laundry detergent bottle, add soap and water and shake it a bit, then drain it off into a safe place and rinse the brass.

 

 

Just to be really picky,  soapy water does not neutralize Black Powder fouling. It dilutes it. Neutralizing means changing the pH. All we are doing when we soak and rinse our brass with soapy water is dissolving the fouling in water and rinsing it away. Not neutralizing it.

 

 

On 8/9/2019 at 9:36 PM, T-Square said:

And who makes the best tumbler and media for cleaning black powder cases ?

 

I have said this a bazillion times, but I will say it again. Shiny brass does not shoot any better than stained brass. It is just easier to find in the grass. A batch of 44-40 I made up a few days ago. Notice the brass is not shiny., it is stained. The brass is a mixed batch, so I have no idea how many times it has been loaded. After a match, within 24 hours I dump my brass into a jug of water with a dash of dish soap in it. You have to do it within 24 hours or the brass will turn green with verdigris. After the match back at the car is plenty of time, no sense dragging a jug of water around all day. Then I rinse the brass out thoroughly. I use a kitchen strainer and keep dumping the brass out and adding fresh rinse water and shaking until the rinse water runs reasonably clear. It will never be crystal clear. Then I lay the brass on sheets of paper towel on a cookie sheet and allow it to air dry for a few days. Then into the tumbler with fresh Lizzard Litter (which is crushed walnut shells that you can buy at a big box pet store. The same as the expensive crushed walnut you can buy, but much cheaper.) Then into the tumbler to tumble for a few hours. When done the brass is CLEAN, but it is still stained. Like this. Did I mention that shiny brass does not shoot any better than stained brass?

 

 

 

 

[Bull Skinner]

Amen Brother Driftwood, amen!

[T-Square]

Thanks driftwood Johnson. I'm a fairly new shooter and I'm just starting down the path of reloading black powder.

i understand that "Shiny brass does not shoot any better than stained brass" - but since you do all the steps including tumbling, why don't you get to the level of "shiny brass". I hear shiny brass is easier to find, and as a new guy, I do a lot of brass wrangling, it sure does help.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

I'll never forget one day I went to the unloading table. The guy sitting there said, 'Oh, I guess you don't polish your brass, do you?'

 

I gave him one of my famous withering looks. Of course I tumble my brass, but it is stained from Black Powder. He was a Smokeless shooter, he did not know anything about shooting Black Powder.

 

It seems that the cat's pajamas in cleaning brass these days is the tumblers that use stainless steel pins.

 

This is my old Lyman tumbler that I bought used over 20 years ago. It is still going strong, knock on wood.

 

 

 

 

 

This is the crushed walnut shells I use. It appears it goes under the name Desert Blend these days.

 

 

 

 

 

It seems to me the steel pins are simply more aggressive and will remove the stained surface of the brass. Crushed walnut will not remove hardly any metal, it will just polish the surface to a mirror surface. A dark surface, but it is a mirror surface none the less.

 

Why don't I try the steel pins?

 

1. I live in a condo and I don't have a big sink to drain the messy fluid when I am all done. Mrs Johnson would be very upset if I did it in the kitchen sink, the bathroom sinks, or the bath tub.

 

2. Why should I try something new when what I am doing ain't broke?

 

3. Did I mention that stained brass shoots just as well as shiny brass?

 

 

 

 

Here is a batch of Black Powder 44-40 loaded up in brand new, shiny Starline brass.

 

It will never be this shiny again.

 

Ask me if I care.

 

[Tyrel Cody]

11 minutes ago, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

 

 

Ask me if I care.

 

 

 

Do you care if your brass is shiny? 

 

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

DJ-Good point on the alum hopper-Bet what I was see'n was the same as I have seen in the cloudy residue left in see-through plastic hoppers.

Oh-I understand 'static' real well........

I hauled class 1.1 explosives for a spell........

OLG