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WTC last gun is split pistol


Thunder Creek Kid

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 Shooter starts with rifle in center doorway, then shotgun same place, then moves to left window and shoots 5 rounds on single target with pistol 

then moves to right window and shoot 5 rounds on single target with other pistol. 

Question? Can the first pistol at the left window when finished be staged on the window or does it have to be reholstered since it is technically not the last gun? Because you are moving to right window to finish shooting the other pistol.

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Revolvers have to be holstered at the end of the revolver string. Which means that when you are done shooting the second revolver you must holster your revolvers.  It would seem that if you holster the second revolver and then go pick up and holster the first revolver,  you have conformed to the rules. 

 

That's my thoughts, 

BS

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You can leave the first pistol in the window..

 

"Revolvers are returned to leather (re-holstered in a safe condition) at the 
conclusion of the shooting string, unless the stage description specifically directs otherwise (e.g., “move to the next position and set gun on table or prop”). A shooting string is defined as shots from one type of firearm prior to the next type of firearm engaged."

 

"Shooting string – shots from one type of firearm prior to use of the next type of firearm engaged."

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Bubba has it......!

 

The only exception would be if you were shooting gunfighter style and had another firearm between the two pistol strings. The gunfighter would have to shoot double duelist style OR safely stage the revolvers for further use.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Barry Sloe said:

It would seem that if you holster the second revolver and then go pick up and holster the first revolver,  you have conformed to the rules. 

Isn't that really the question?  Can you go back to reholster the first pistol after the last shot has set your stage time? 

I would agree that it is not prohibited.   A No Call. 

 

My read is that the spent pistols can always be placed on the table, then picked up and holstered at the end of the pistol string (that is, before the next type of gun is engaged).  If the pistols are not shot last, that could mean reholstering both pistols (with hammers down on spent cases) on the run to the next staged gun.   

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My question to the OP, why do you want to ground the revolver instead of returning to holster?  Are you trying to gain a competitive advantage? Is there some other issue?  Is their a safety concern?

 

I have participated in the sport since 2000, written many stages and helped put on many matches as an officer and volunteer.  I think this, in my humble opinion, a question that skirts the "Spirit of the Game" to some extent.  I have shot in virtually every category and now shoot Gunfighter.  I have had two stage DQ's due to revolvers not being returned to holster properly and they fell to the ground, one of those was a State Championship.  Drawing from and returning to holster is part of the game, it's spirit, some may say, think of all the movies, TV shows, books we have consumed growing up.  The hero and villain alike never just set their pistol down after shooting it (unless called for in the script).  In writing stages, I have had people start with pistols staged with the option to re-stage or re-holster, shooter preference, in most cases I believe the intent is to draw from and return to leather unless stated otherwise in the instructions.  The exception of course would be due to malfunction and if a safety issue arises.

 

I have also had new shooters ask to stage pistols when they did not have leather yet or when their rig broke, I have accommodated and recommend that when it has occurred, keeping in mind this is just a game.  If the stage instructions are not specific, you should ask if something is allowed during the reading of the instructions.  Many stage writers make assumptions based on their experience in the sport, assumptions made on what the game calls for, or perhaps belief that we all see things in a similar way.   It comes down to what is the intent of the stage instructions to keep the competition the same for all participants and most importantly, is it SAFE!

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Regardless of the shooter's reason(s) for staging the first revolver in the OP, it is an acceptable practice allowed under the rules quoted in the 2nd reply above.

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13 minutes ago, Kettleman, SASS #27254 said:

My question to the OP, why do you want to ground the revolver instead of returning to holster?  Are you trying to gain a competitive advantage? Is there some other issue?  Is their a safety concern?

 

I have participated in the sport since 2000, written many stages and helped put on many matches as an officer and volunteer.  I think this, in my humble opinion, a question that skirts the "Spirit of the Game" to some extent.  I have shot in virtually every category and now shoot Gunfighter.  I have had two stage DQ's due to revolvers not being returned to holster properly and they fell to the ground, one of those was a State Championship.  Drawing from and returning to holster is part of the game, it's spirit, some may say, think of all the movies, TV shows, books we have consumed growing up.  The hero and villain alike never just set their pistol down after shooting it (unless called for in the script).  In writing stages, I have had people start with pistols staged with the option to re-stage or re-holster, shooter preference, in most cases I believe the intent is to draw from and return to leather unless stated otherwise in the instructions.  The exception of course would be due to malfunction and if a safety issue arises.

 

I have also had new shooters ask to stage pistols when they did not have leather yet or when their rig broke, I have accommodated and recommend that when it has occurred, keeping in mind this is just a game.  If the stage instructions are not specific, you should ask if something is allowed during the reading of the instructions.  Many stage writers make assumptions based on their experience in the sport, assumptions made on what the game calls for, or perhaps belief that we all see things in a similar way.   It comes down to what is the intent of the stage instructions to keep the competition the same for all participants and most importantly, is it SAFE!

Around here grounding the pistol if it's the last gun fired is pretty standard among shooters who are trying to be competitive, and yes it's done because it's perceived as conveying an advantage with respect to time.  I don't see how it 'skirts the Spirit of the Game' when it is expressly allowed under the rules as Bubba quoted. 

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There is no sprit of the game to be called here.

It's allowed by rule.

And it was there for all shooters to do also.

Nobody's fault but there own if they did not think of it.

 

For me as a double duelist. It does not come into play.

As I just hold it in my other hand.

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34 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Around here grounding the pistol if it's the last gun fired is pretty standard among shooters who are trying to be competitive, and yes it's done because it's perceived as conveying an advantage with respect to time.  I don't see how it 'skirts the Spirit of the Game' when it is expressly allowed under the rules as Bubba quoted. 

 

 

The original question has already been answered so I don't feel bad hijacking the thread just a bit.

 

I totally agree with you that it has nothing to do with Spirit of the Game.  But I would advise from a completely competitive perspective I don't think it's a good idea.  Grounding any firearm takes time.  It may seem faster but you have to ensure you ground it safely.  That means looking at the place you're grounding it, making sure you hit that spot and finally making sure it stays there.  Some people can do all that in the blink of an eye.  Guess what, matches have been lost by a blink of an eye.  Instead of standing there grounding that gun you could be holstering it while moving to the next shooting position.  

 

Bottom line, don't take the time to do something at one spot when you could be doing it on the move to the next spot.

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3 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

 

The original question has already been answered so I don't feel bad hijacking the thread just a bit.

 

I totally agree with you that it has nothing to do with Spirit of the Game.  But I would advise from a completely competitive perspective I don't think it's a good idea.  Grounding any firearm takes time.  It may seem faster but you have to ensure you ground it safely.  That means looking at the place you're grounding it, making sure you hit that spot and finally making sure it stays there.  Some people can do all that in the blink of an eye.  Guess what, matches have been lost by a blink of an eye.  Instead of standing there grounding that gun you could be moving to the next shooting position.  In the case of the OP you could be holstering the first pistol while moving. 

 

Bottom line, don't take the time to do something at that spot when you could be doing it on the move to the next spot.

One small problem.  If you're grounding the pistols it's because they're the last guns being fired.  Unless it's split pistol you're not going to be moving.  Having said that, if it were split pistols I wouldn't be grounding, I would be doing just what you said, holstering on the move to the next pistol location.

 

I can't speak for where you shoot, but around here tables are typically a bigger easier target to hit than holsters are.  It takes time to holster, or ground, choose your poison.  We have top shooters, world champions, who ground them, we have world champions who feel the same way you do and don't.  I take it on a case by case basis.  If pistols are last and it's a big, high,  uncluttered table I'm probably going to the table.  If pistols are last and the table is small/low/or has guns already on it I'm probably going to the holsters.

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39 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

Regardless of the shooter's reason(s) for staging the first revolver in the OP, it is an acceptable practice allowed under the rules quoted in the 2nd reply above.

PaleWolf,  I stand corrected.  

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On ‎8‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 9:53 PM, Buckaroo Bubba said:

You can leave the first pistol in the window..

 

"Revolvers are returned to leather (re-holstered in a safe condition) at the 
conclusion of the shooting string, unless the stage description specifically directs otherwise (e.g., “move to the next position and set gun on table or prop”). A shooting string is defined as shots from one type of firearm prior to the next type of firearm engaged."

 

"Shooting string – shots from one type of firearm prior to use of the next type of firearm engaged."

Thank you Bubba for your clear and concise answer, that helps. And for not giving me a lecture on why I should or should not leave the pistol!

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