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LOADING BLACK MZ


Tequila Shooter

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I'm asking the expert cowboys out on the range.  I've only loaded smokeless but now I'm ready to dip my toe win the black world.  I'm going to be loading .45 Colt and 12 ga shotshell.  I sent this email to Alliant:

 

I'm just starting out loading BP sub for Cowboy Action Shooting.  Can I use my coated bullets?  Is there any load information?  Does it need to be compressed like real BP?  Fillers? Can they be used?  Is Black MZ measured by weight or volume?

Handgun - Firearm Make/Model: Pietta SAA

Cartridge: .45 LC

Bullet Brand and Style:  Coated RNFP

Bullet Weight (Grains): 160/200/250 gr

Primer: Federal Large Pistol

Powder: Black MZ

This was their response:

 

45Colt

250

RNFP

Federal

Fed150

1.58

26.5

899

 

300

RNFP

Federal

Fed150

1.6

26.0

905

               

These charges are by weight, not volume. The charges are not to be reduced and are the charge to use.

 

As you can see not everything I was asking about.  I'm pretty sure there's a gunslinger out there who can answer some or all of my questions.  Also anyone has other load data that would be great.

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I load shotgun shells with MZ with the same data Hodgdon once published for its subs.  Send me your e-mail address via a PM and I will send a scan of that data to you.  Alliant says MZ is not very hydroscopic so I don't protect my SG shells from humidity.  However, I live in the desert and you live on the Gulf Coast.  Your experience may not be the same regarding humidity.

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Their information is useless.  It does not even tell the barrel length.  WAY too much powder. 

 

I use 1cc in everything from 32-20, 38 Special,  38WCF, C45S and 44WCF.  I use a little wad of U-Haul packing peanut as filler when loading 38WCF and 44WCF. 

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OK ..... BLACK MZ is a Sub made by APP for Alliant.  The base line is you start by loading cartridge to the base of the bullet.  NO airspace.  The specific weight is immaterial.  If you wish to reduce the charge, replace the removed powder with a filler, again, to the base of the bullet.  Leave NO airspace.  Compression is not necessary.   Yes you can use coated bullets as "lube" is not necessary with B-MZ.  B-MZ is measured by Weight or Volume.  Notice, the starting point is the base of the bullet.  If you want to use a scale or measure or dispenser,  weigh that amount then set your measure/dispense or make a dipper and go with the same volume.  You won't find much in the way of load data for BP or Subs.  The theme is "leave NO airspace."

 

The warden beat me to the draw

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1 hour ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

OK ..... BLACK MZ is a Sub made by APP for Alliant.  The base line is you start by loading cartridge to the base of the bullet.  NO airspace.  The specific weight is immaterial.  If you wish to reduce the charge, replace the removed powder with a filler, again, to the base of the bullet.  Leave NO airspace.  Compression is not necessary.   Yes you can use coated bullets as "lube" is not necessary with B-MZ.  B-MZ is measured by Weight or Volume.  Notice, the starting point is the base of the bullet.  If you want to use a scale or measure or dispenser,  weigh that amount then set your measure/dispense or make a dipper and go with the same volume.  You won't find much in the way of load data for BP or Subs.  The theme is "leave NO airspace."

 

The warden beat me to the draw

 

This

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I agree the Alliant data produces some hot loads.  I followed those 45 loads and showed up at a match and they were hot (rattled the extractor assembly right off my pistol at one point).

 

I have downloaded Black MZ to comfortable values following exactly what Coffinmaker said above.  Fill the case with a combo of power and filer and they work just great.   

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1cc with filler to give enough compression that filler & powder won't mix will make you happy .  If you want a bit more power just increase/decrease powder/filler. 1 cc will make the smoke standard with subs.

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My wife uses MZ, I use BP. I called and talked to a TR about MZ, a little comp is ok but you will get varying results with too much. I asked about lube with MZ. I was told do NOT use lube with it. If compress it too much you can actually start getting excess pressure and flattening your primers.

kR

PS They will tell you to not use any fillers with it so you are on your own in that aspect.

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28 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

Is there any published loading data for cartridges?  

See this link.  I load APP for my wife in 32 H&R mag cases exactly how CC recommends: fill the case so that the bullet just touches the powder.  I load 777 for myself the same way.

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4 minutes ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

See this link.  I load APP for my wife in 32 H&R mag cases exactly how CC recommends: fill the case so that the bullet just touches the powder.  I load 777 for myself the same way.

 

As I figured.   It's a method rather than a chart of case, bullet, charge giving some resulting velocity like you find with smokeless powder. 

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Tequila ..... not that I know of.  I have NEVER seen any load data presented in the same way as Smokeless (That Fad Stuff).  Neither for BP or APP. The "loads" for APP and Black MZ are exactly the same.  Load to the base of the Bullet.  NO MANUFACTURE I know of suggests or recommends the use of fillers with their products.  At least, not that I have ever seen.  Some fillers once used for Smokeless were found to be detrimental to your guns and your health.  I am unaware of any problems with BP or APP using Breakfast Food.  I do, however, suggest cutting well back on the amount of water used for your Cream-0-Wheat filler (snicker snicker)

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It is important that no air space or gap be left when the bullet is seated, and the use of fillers is not recommended for general cartridge shooting, but is often required and acceptable for achieving the lower velocities desired in Cowboy Action Shooting. The filler should be composed of an acceptable material as recommended by the Single Action Shooting Society. No grease cookie or lube wad is needed, and the use of one will lower the performance. Regular bullet lube is fine - no special bullet lube is required. A good consistent crimp will help give consistent results.

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