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Dusty Devil Dale

WTC? Dropped loaded revolver

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Ok, so DDD, I got you coming in the second Saturday of October and we'll get this club whipped into shape!

Wish I had the time and resources to do all he does. Most don't.

 

And Phantom doesn't even believe what he's saying; it was just a little slow on the wire lately with no real contention and he had to poke the bear.

Didn't ya? ;)

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Wish I had the time and resources to do all he does. Most don't.

What's the weather like in GA in mid October?  Could work out to be a fun trip.  

Make it fun enough, and the priorities will shift for all involved.  

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale

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8 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

What's the weather like in GA in mid October?  Could work out to be a fun trip.  

Make it fun enough, and the priorities will shift for all involved.  

Watch out.  He'll put you to work.  He's a taskmaster.  In mid October the temperature will be moderate, and rain will be a possibility.

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16 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

What's the weather like in GA in mid October?  Could work out to be a fun trip.  

 Make it fun enough, and the priorities will shift for all involved.  

You could swing by the Southeast Regional on your way.  That should add to the fun and excitement!

 

https://www.northalabamaregulators.com/ambush-at-cavern-cove

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D3's October/November schedule:

 

1. October 5th - Work on Green River Gunslingers range.

2. October 10-12 - Shoot, Tennessee State Match

3. October 19th - Work Rainmaker's range.

4. October 24-26 - Southeast Regional

5. October 31 -November 2 -  Work on North Al and/or Wartrace Range, shoot at Wartrace.

6. November 9 - Shoot with Green River Gunslingers.

7. November 10th - Go home, having met a bunch of very appreciative new friends.

 

 

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

 

Seriously though if your ever in the Middle Tennessee area we'll be glad to have you shoot with us, no work needed; just come relax.

 

 

 

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Trying to avoid 5 pages;

1. There is no rule that says a shooter can't leave his loaded pistols at the loading table and go do something.

2. An unwritten rule is no one touches another shooters guns without their permission. Or be willing to accept the wrath of the shooter.

3. My understanding is the person committing the infraction, whatever it is, takes the penalty. A someone, not the shooter, knocks a long gun off table or prop., dropping any gun, sweeping anyone etc. They get the penalty.

4. Modifying tables to correct someones carelessness is like T-ball. DOn't blame the person, its the equipments fault. And we heard an example where a young shooter dropped his pistol because he didn't have it over the table. Mr. Murphy continues to surprise us.

Ike

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23 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

 

Stage – synonymous with “Course of Fire” from the beep of the timer once the shooter has
signified “ready” to the last shot fired.

 

SHB p. 45

 

Firing line – from first firearm placed on the loading table until all firearms are confirmed
as cleared at the unloading table.

 

SHB Pg 44

    I never have liked these definitions. It's almost as if the writer got the two mixed up and nobody caught it before it was printed so they just left it. Think about it. Ever fired a weapon from that portion of the FIRING line taken up by the LT or ULT? A more common sense approach would be the STAGE is from LT to ULT, and the firing line from beep to beep. Just my way of thinking and thats why I struggle with these definitions.

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Definitely not speaking for Phantom, but he may be thinking about the clarification made that stated shooter is ultimately responsible for their firearm because of the whole "TO stopping a gun from falling is still a penalty" thing. I understand it had nothing to do with someone else knocking the firearm to the ground. Just saying I remember seeing that too. Danged if I can find it though. PWB probably has it handy.

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1 hour ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

What's the weather like in GA in mid October?  Could work out to be a fun trip.  

Make it fun enough, and the priorities will shift for all involved.  

 

Watch it DDD, someone will make a song about that trip. Probably call it "The Devil Went Down to Georgia" or something like that.:rolleyes:

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13 minutes ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Watch it DDD, someone will make a song about that trip. Probably call it "The Devil Went Down to Georgia" or something like that.:rolleyes:

Made my day!  Thx. 

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1 hour ago, Tyrel Cody said:

D3's October/November schedule:

 

1. October 5th - Work on Green River Gunslingers range.

2. October 10-12 - Shoot, Tennessee State Match

3. October 19th - Work Rainmaker's range.

4. October 24-26 - Southeast Regional

5. October 31 -November 2 -  Work on North Al and/or Wartrace Range, shoot at Wartrace.

6. November 9 - Shoot with Green River Gunslingers.

7. November 10th - Go home, having met a bunch of very appreciative new friends.

 

 

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

 

Seriously though if your ever in the Middle Tennessee area we'll be glad to have you shoot with us, no work needed; just come relax.

 

 

 

I've flown over that country but never visited there on the ground--always really have wanted to see it close up.   Thinking here a bit...... 

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5 hours ago, Wyatt said:

 

Who are those? Just one name

Probably ten years ago...

 

The topic was of interest to me since I leave my guns loaded on the table and go to my cart to put stuff away... So my comments are based on my memory of that Wire discussion.

 

I'll leave it at that ...Wyatt...

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It's never been a SASS rule that one can't leave one's loaded revolvers on the LT while you either fetched or returned something to one's cart.  Local rule... who knows?   As for those that made the rules back then... sometimes one can suffer from a bit of "mis-remembering"...   And no one is exempt from turning a pet peeve into a "rule"...  It was once a rule that "misses" carried over to a re-shoot also.  Can't tell ya how many times I have to mentally check myself before repeating that... 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

How many clubs have you run Dale?  How many work days have your organized?  How many club budgets have you been responsible for?

Forgive me for dodging your direct question.  In re-reading the thread, I realized I had done so. 

 

I've never "run" a CAS club.   I have held the Chair of other clubs.   In high school, I was the CA State 4H Chairman and managed that 7,500- member organization's +/- $170,000 annual budget for several years.   Later on (+/- 45 yrs later) as a CA State Fish and Game Regional Manager, I managed an approx. $80,000,000 annual joint State-Federal budget for that agency for just under sixteen years.  I managed 14 major facilities (Permanent fish production hatcheries, Wildlife Areas, Admin Offices and Ecological Reserves).  I was responsible to manage 9 major programs, including law enforcement, with a collective staff of about 300 permanent 'ees.   22 of them were senior-supervisory level direct reports.   

 

Before all of that, I ran my own successful business between ages 11 and 17, producing, selling and shipping Tubifex worms to the tropical fish industry. 

 

So there's my autobiography and C. V. in a nutshell.  I guess the answer is "Yes", I have "run a club", managed a budget and organized a couple of workdays.  

 

Sorry again for evading you.  Hope to have a chance to shoot with you soon.  

 

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale
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12 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Forgive me for dodging your direct question.  In re-reading the thread, I realized I had done so. 

 

I've never "run" a CAS club.   I have held the Chair of other clubs.   In high school, I was the CA State 4H Chairman and managed that 7,500- member organization's +/- $170,000 annual budget for several years.   Later on (+/- 45 yrs later) as a CA State Fish and Game Regional Manager, I managed an approx. $80,000,000 annual joint State-Federal budget for that agency for just under sixteen years.  I managed 14 major facilities (Permanent fish production hatcheries, Wildlife Areas, Admin Offices and Ecological Reserves).  I was responsible to manage 9 major programs, including law enforcement, with a collective staff of about 300 permanent 'ees.   22 of them were senior-supervisory level direct reports.   

 

Before all of that, I ran my own successful business between ages 11 and 17, producing, selling and shipping Tubifex worms to the tropical fish industry. 

 

So there's my autobiography and C. V. in a nutshell.  I guess the answer is "Yes", I have "run a club", managed a budget and organized a couple of workdays.  

 

Sorry again for evading you.  Hope to have a chance to shoot with you soon.  

 

I didn't think you were being evasive.  I was simply trying to point out that you may not have enough SASS specific experience to have fully informed opinions on some of the subjects you're addressing here on the Wire.  That's not a slam, just a statement of opinion based on my experience. 


Your CV is impressive, but those experiences may not be relevant to running a SASS club.

 

Having said that, I find your enthusiasm for SASS laudable, I'm just pointing out that you may want to be aware that your opinions may not fully align with the reality the rest of us have experienced over the years.  As I said previously I went through the same thing when I started.  I could only shoot once or twice a week so I fed my appetite for SASS here on the Wire.  Occasionally my mouth got ahead of my experience.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I could only shoot once or twice a week so I fed my appetite for SASS here on the Wire.  Occasionally my mouth got ahead of my experience.

All of us do that here.  I think it might be more precise to say our enthusiasm out-runs our brain at times.   I'm a busy person, although retired now, I'm a nut farmer and rancher.  I log in here for a CAS "fix" when it's 100+ degrees outside and I take needed rest breaks during the day. 

If I spent the time practicing that I spend here on the Wire, I'd be a much better competitor (only perhaps).   But what I'm doing works fine for me and gets me to sleep at night.  That's good enough!   

Writing stinging messages back and forth isn't the best way to communicate or get things done.  But any forum is like that.  Right now, it's all that we have.  We each have to take what we can use, leave the rest, contribute what ideas we have and take whatever hits come our way.   I catch torpedos here every day, and I'm unafraid to launch a few.  Some go straight where intended, and others seem to veer off and arouse unintended targets that shoot back.  Just a part of the exercise.  Hopefully out of all that comes some good SASS and CAS direction.  Nobody ever said all cowboys were right, smart, or good looking.  I'm usually NOTA.  Realizing that took me 70 years.  

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale

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6 hours ago, Cypress Sun said:

 

Watch it DDD, someone will make a song about that trip. Probably call it "The Devil Went Down to Georgia" or something like that.:rolleyes:

Best post in the thread! :lol:

 

Kajun

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4 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Probably ten years ago...

 

The topic was of interest to me since I leave my guns loaded on the table and go to my cart to put stuff away... So my comments are based on my memory of that Wire discussion.

 

I'll leave it at that ...Wyatt...

 

 

Anita Margarita and I recall that Wire thread.  It was sometime before we moved east from Northern California so that would have been at least ten years ago.  I'm not sure if it had a final conclusion, but my take away was "Leave your loaded guns on the LT...AT YOUR OWN RISK!  We remember mostly because it seemed so unreasonable.

 

Jackalope

 

 

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If the shooter, for any reason, needs to leave the Loading area there is little choice available. Either leave the guns on the table or unload all of them, obtain permission from the R.O. to proceed directly to the ULT for final clearance. After that, the shooter could proceed to go do what ever it was that he/she had to do. Much easier to just leave all guns on the LT, tell everyone there to "Keep your stinkin hands off my guns", then make a threatening face at them and walk away without looking back. If done correctly the sheer terror that you instill within them will insure that they don't even come close to your guns. He won't admit it, but I've seen Phantom do this. His sheer presents and John Wayne type demeanor is enough to insure that nobody will mess with his guns. :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, Jackalope said:

Anita Margarita and I recall that Wire thread.  It was sometime before we moved east from Northern California so that would have been at least ten years ago.  I'm not sure if it had a final conclusion, but my take away was "Leave your loaded guns on the LT...AT YOUR OWN RISK!  We remember mostly because it seemed so unreasonable.

 

Jackalope

Hi Folks

 

I also remember a thread about leaving loaded guns at the LT. IIRC, someone (GCK, maybe) said he had shot clubs where it wasn't allowed. I don't remember any penalty being mentioned or the clubs where this happened.

 

I do not like the idea of forbidding a shooter to leave their guns at the LT to go elsewhere. Following are some of my thoughts.

  1. I always carry my rifle and ammo to the table. I leave my loaded pistols and rifle on the table to return my ammo box to my cart and pick up my SG. This is a long time (20 year) procedure and I've never had a problems.
  2. I've done this for physical reasons. (Anyone volunteering to be a "gun boy," some have when needed.) Other times I did it for convenience. (Why count out rounds into a pouch or leather thingy? That takes away from posse duties. Or, if the shooter must purchase a pouch or leather thingy, you are just adding an unnecessary, IMO, cost for them.)
  3. What if the shooter has had a colon resection and suddenly feels the urge? (They will not take the time to unload, I guarantee this. Don't ask how I know. It hasn't happened to me. Yet, I know it could.):blush:
  4. If anyone says it is not allowed at their match and I know ahead of time, I won't attend. If I find out when I get there, I will comply; but, won't be back.

DDD, please keep asking questions and giving your thoughts. We can always learn something from the "new kid." ;) "Just because" is never a good answer to a question. The real reason may merely be that the PTB decided this long ago, which is somewhat like "just because." It may be time for a revisit or not, if 2/3 think it is okay as is.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

PS DDD, DO NOT REFER TO YOURSELF AS OLD! Or, I will hunt you down and beat you with a wet noodle. :o:rolleyes::D

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Snakebite said:

If the shooter, for any reason, needs to leave the Loading area there is little choice available. Either leave the guns on the table or unload all of them, obtain permission from the R.O. to proceed directly to the ULT for final clearance. After that, the shooter could proceed to go do what ever it was that he/she had to do. Much easier to just leave all guns on the LT, tell everyone there to "Keep your stinkin hands off my guns", then make a threatening face at them and walk away without looking back. If done correctly the sheer terror that you instill within them will insure that they don't even come close to your guns. He won't admit it, but I've seen Phantom do this. His sheer presents and John Wayne type demeanor is enough to insure that nobody will mess with his guns. :ph34r:

I would knock his guns on the ground, call the TO over and inform him Phantom just earned a MDQ, then cite his opinion on this thread to back the call.  

 

Phantom, being the person of sterling character he is, would agree with the call and take his MDQ with grace. ;)

Edited by Captain Bill Burt
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Pheeew - this post ran down many rat holes, but I still don't know the correct answer to DDD's question - and I hoped that Snakebite would nail the lid closed.

 

So...

1. Who gets dinged - the shooter who loaded the pistol or the person who knocked the gun off the table?

2. If the LO caught the pistol (kudos) does it still count as a dropped loaded pistol?

 

RR

 

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Lets go 5 pages

OK, I did not walk away from the LT. My pistols are holstered, I am the next shooter. Shooter in front of me is just finishing his/her run. I am standing at the LT with Rifle and SG laying at my end of the of the LT. I am looking down range at the targets trying to get the pattern implanted in my feeble mind so that I might have a chance of beating that Jackalope fellow. Shooter behind me is loading and the next shooter walks up to lay his long guns down. He stumbles on the threshold and bumps the table. The movement make my rifle fall while I am looking down range. Penalty on me or the shooter who bumped the table? 

So according to some of the posting in the thread I should go to ULT and clear guns and put them away and come back to work, I should blame the shooter who bumped the table, I should remove the threshold, I should rebuild the table. All I really have to do is look at the first two responses to the OP and look at who like them and know what the call should be.

I have seen something close to this happen but the gun did not fall. Table moved but everything stayed in place.

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47 minutes ago, Tn Tombstone said:

Lets go 5 pages

OK, I did not walk away from the LT. My pistols are holstered, I am the next shooter. Shooter in front of me is just finishing his/her run. I am standing at the LT with Rifle and SG laying at my end of the of the LT. I am looking down range at the targets trying to get the pattern implanted in my feeble mind so that I might have a chance of beating that Jackalope fellow. Shooter behind me is loading and the next shooter walks up to lay his long guns down. He stumbles on the threshold and bumps the table. The movement make my rifle fall while I am looking down range. Penalty on me or the shooter who bumped the table? 

So according to some of the posting in the thread I should go to ULT and clear guns and put them away and come back to work, I should blame the shooter who bumped the table, I should remove the threshold, I should rebuild the table. All I really have to do is look at the first two responses to the OP and look at who like them and know what the call should be.

I have seen something close to this happen but the gun did not fall. Table moved but everything stayed in place.

If the LT is so unstable that a bump caused a gun to fall from the table, it would be my opinion that it was a prop Failure, and I would act accordingly. No call. This can go on and on and on. First off this is not something that happens very often. I know, some folks always say... well I've seen this happen or that happen, or what ever will fed the topic at hand. Yes, it could happen. The only thing that I know for sure, is that the shooter that left his guns on the LT and went back to his cart for SG shells, is not at fault. If someone at the loading table causes the gun to fall because of their unsafe action, then it is their fault. If their action was magnified by a unstable LT, then it is a prop failure. What more can be done? We all must be held accountable for our actions, whether they are accidental or otherwise, but we should not and can not be charged if the failure was due to a poor prop, such as a wobbling LT, or because the stage has the shooter restage a gun in a poor location.... such as a Pickett fence etc. The Club is charge with providing a safe place to stage guns, that includes the LT and ULT tables.

 

Snakebite

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On 7/30/2019 at 9:20 AM, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

... Just said that it was stated years ago that the shooter that leaves their guns loaded on the loading table is responsible for them....

 

14 hours ago, Jackalope said:

 

 

Anita Margarita and I recall that Wire thread.  It was sometime before we moved east from Northern California so that would have been at least ten years ago.  I'm not sure if it had a final conclusion, but my take away was "Leave your loaded guns on the LT...AT YOUR OWN RISK!  We remember mostly because it seemed so unreasonable.

 

Jackalope

 

 

 

Just to be clear, the Wire discussion I referred to (and what I believe Phantom refers to) did not forbid or prohibit a shooter from placing loaded guns on the LT and leaving for whatever reason.  Again, I don't know if it ever reached an absolute conclusion (10+ years ago), but it did indicate if your loaded guns hit the floor, no matter who bumped into them, you got the MDQ.  That didn't sound logical back then and, in my opinion, it doesn't sound logical now.

 

Jackalope

 

 

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51 minutes ago, Jackalope said:

 

 

Just to be clear, the Wire discussion I referred to (and what I believe Phantom refers to) did not forbid or prohibit a shooter from placing loaded guns on the LT and leaving for whatever reason.  Again, I don't know if it ever reached an absolute conclusion (10+ years ago), but it did indicate if your loaded guns hit the floor, no matter who bumped into them, you got the MDQ.  That didn't sound logical back then and, in my opinion, it doesn't sound logical now.

 

Jackalope

 

 

Thanks Jackalope!

 

And that's exactly as I remember it.

 

Phantom

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