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WTC? Dropped loaded revolver


Dusty Devil Dale

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This is a hypothetical, but a situation which very nearly occurred at our last match.  (an astute LTO caught the revolver) 

 

Shooter loads all three guns at the LT, under supervision.  Discovers he has no SG shells.  Lays his two loaded revolvers on the table to go to his cart.  While away, somebody moves a rifle up the line and slides his revolver off the table.  WTC? 

A dropped loaded revolver.... 

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Quote

somebody moves a rifle up the line

 

Well, THAT SOMEBODY just bought himself a Match DQ.   "Shooter" did everything correctly.  Next feller on the loading table was extremely careless.

 

Good luck, GJ

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No call was made.  The LTO did her job well and lunged/grabbed the gun, preventing it dropping over the front of the table.   A few words were exchanged, but no penalties. 

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3 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

No call was made.  The LTO did her job well and lunged/grabbed the gun, preventing it dropping over the front of the table.   A few words were exchanged, but no penalties. 

PWB may want to clarify, but if a TO stops a gun from falling the penalty still applies.  I expect that might be true here where the LTO stopped the gun from falling. I don't particularly like that rule, but it's on the books.

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12 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

No call was made.  The LTO did her job well and lunged/grabbed the gun, preventing it dropping over the front of the table.   A few words were exchanged, but no penalties. 

Good thing gun wasn't  cocked.

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"Any loaded firearm dropped during a stage will result in a Match Disqualification
penalty assessment."

 

SHB p. 17

 

"Stage – synonymous with “Course of Fire” from the beep of the timer once the shooter has
signified “ready” to the last shot fired."

 

SHB p. 45

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STAGE DISQUALIFICATION PENALTY (SDQ)

- Any dropped unloaded firearm on the firing line.

 

SHB Pg 23

 

MATCH DISQUALIFICATION PENALTIES (MDQ)

 

- Dropping a loaded firearm.

 

SHB Pg 24

 

Firing line – from first firearm placed on the loading table until all firearms are confirmed
as cleared at the unloading table.

 

SHB Pg 44

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Stump Water said:

"Any loaded firearm dropped during a stage will result in a Match Disqualification
penalty assessment."

 

SHB p. 17

 

"Stage – synonymous with “Course of Fire” from the beep of the timer once the shooter has
signified “ready” to the last shot fired."

 

SHB p. 45

 

Interesting, Stump Water.  So, a loaded firearm that is dropped prior to the beep is a "no call"?

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5 minutes ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

Seems like the SHB contradicts itself based on the above posts by Stump Water and Branchwater Jack.

I don't think so.  Just because SHB 17 says dropping a loaded gun during a stage is an MDQ that doesn't preclude a dropped loaded gun being an MDQ at some other time ie 'on the firing line'.

 

Edited:  I think it would be clearer if SHB 17 said on the firing line, which encompasses the stage.

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Just now, Captain Bill Burt said:

I don't think so.  Just because SHB 17 says dropping a loaded gun during a stage is an MDQ that doesn't preclude a dropped loaded gun being an MDQ at some other time ie 'on the firing line'.

I can see how both scenarios could apply, Captain.  This is just another opportunity to consolidate the rules to prevent confusion.

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The word "STAGE" is defined as the 'course of fire'.   This is from the beep to the last shot.

 

On the firing line is defined from LT to ULT.

 

Atleast this is my understanding.

 

..........Widder

 

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1 minute ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

The word "STAGE" is defined as the 'course of fire'.   This is from the beep to the last shot.

 

On the firing line is defined from LT to ULT.

 

Atleast this is my understanding.

 

..........Widder

 

 

Stage – synonymous with “Course of Fire” from the beep of the timer once the shooter has
signified “ready” to the last shot fired.

 

SHB p. 45

 

Firing line – from first firearm placed on the loading table until all firearms are confirmed
as cleared at the unloading table.

 

SHB Pg 44

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11 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I don't think so.  Just because SHB 17 says dropping a loaded gun during a stage is an MDQ that doesn't preclude a dropped loaded gun being an MDQ at some other time ie 'on the firing line'.

 

Edited:  I think it would be clearer if SHB 17 said on the firing line, which encompasses the stage.

I totally agree, Captain.

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2 hours ago, Yusta B. said:

Good thing gun wasn't  cocked.

If the gun had left the shooter's hand, on the firing line (includes LT) in loaded and cocked condition = definite MDQ

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13 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

The shooter who put the guns on the table or the one who knocked them off?

 

or the small glass of takillya consumed back at the camper?

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So, he was supossed to unload both handguns before going to his cart to get shotgun ammo? I think not.

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1 minute ago, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said:

So, he was supossed to unload both handguns before going to his cart to get shotgun ammo? I think not.

Worse than that, by Phantoms logic even if the shooter did as you said he would still get the SDQ for ‘dropping’ an unloaded gun. :lol:

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My understanding is that once your guns are loaded, you must stay within arms reach of the loading table until instructed to go to the line!  We are instructed that if we need or want something from our cart to ask someone to retrieve it for us.

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9 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

My understanding is that once your guns are loaded, you must stay within arms reach of the loading table until instructed to go to the line!  We are instructed that if we need or want something from our cart to ask someone to retrieve it for us.

 

My understanding as well if loaded pistols are holstered.  However I've seen lots of folks put loaded pistols on the table and then go to their carts.

 

That bringing us to the question at hand.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

My understanding is that once your guns are loaded, you must stay within arms reach of the loading table until instructed to go to the line!  We are instructed that if we need or want something from our cart to ask someone to retrieve it for us.

SHB Page 29.

 

Competitors shall not leave the designated loading area with a loaded firearm unless they are proceeding to the stage as the next competitor to begin the stage.

 

In this case the shooter left his loaded guns on the LT under the supervision of the LTO.

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NO your guns may be placed on the loading table. You may go to your cart or even to relieve yourself if that's what you want to do. Your guns must stay at the loading table if loaded. Same at the unloading table, if you have a need to leave, your guns must stay until cleared.

kR

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2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

The guy that left them there is responsible.

Nope 

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So let's see Phantom, I decided I needed more shotgun shells and I "placed" my revolvers, shotgun, and rifle on the loading table in a safe manner.  The shooter behind me is shooting in the same category I am, and we are at EOT, Winter Range or just a club match and I am so far "kicking his butt".  So after I leave the table he "accidently" knocks one of my loaded guns off the table and I am supposed to get a MDQ?  I normally don't disagree with you on calls, but this one is wrong.

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23 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Check the "likes" on Garrison Joe's post.

 

Indeed, interesting who liked that post.

 

Though I do see what I presume Phantom is thinking.  Yes, I know that is a dangerous thing to do.  Ultimately, if I load a gun, I am responsible for it, no matter what.  Yes, there is some presumption of safety leaving them on the table, but....

 

At the same time, the person who caused the pistol to fall is also responsible.  And for the purpose of the rules of the game, should be the one to receive the penalty.

 

I hate, I H A T E leaving loaded pistols on the table, load and holster is my routine.  One of the few times I left them there, picking one up off the table and going to holster it, I caught the barrel on the table and it spun out of my hand, MDQ, too bad, so sad, sucks to be Grizz.

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