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WHO gets the Penalty?


Widder, SASS #59054

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Nope, this did not happen today.   But it did cross my mind after someone was given a warranted reshoot (restart).

 

In a match, the Posse is on their 2nd stage of the day.

Lets say we have shooters Tn Williams and Widder.

 

Tn Williams shoots 1st on the stage.

A few minutes later, Widder gets up to shoot and gets a pistol lockup on the very first round  (NO rounds have gone

downrange at this time).    So Widder just stops and request he be allowed to 'regroup'

and try again later with some better pistols.

Widder can't fix his pistol problem sooooooooo, he borrows the set previously used from TN Williams.

 

When Widder gets to the LT, he proceeds to load the pistols he just borrowed from TN William

 and discovers empties in them.     A BIG OOPS.

 

Who gets the penalty?     

Its obvious that TN Williams didn't clear his pistols from that very stage.

Its also obvious that Widder brought 'uncleared' pistols to the LT.

 

Could a Penalty be assessed to both shooters or no penalty at all?

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Who gets the penalty?     

Its obvious that TN Williams didn't clear his pistols from that very stage.

 

SDQ for "failure to adhere to loading and unloading procedures":

Quote

- Any competitor’s failure to adhere to loading and unloading procedures will result in a penalty of a Stage Disqualification. 

SHB p.29

 

 

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I've had a similar thing happen.  loaned pistols to a new shooter. (monthly match) he returned them to my cart holsters.  I picked up from cart, holstered, went to LT and found the un-cleared pistols.  I showed them to PM who happened to be loading behind me, explained the situation, he said no call on me, and said to discuss it with the new shooter, which I did.  We did not penalize him in this instance, even tho we probably should have. in reality, this was a failure on several of us.  Shooter for not clearing pistols.  TO for not escorting new shooter to ULT. ULT officer for not clearfing pistols, and probalblyte club in general for not having a mentor assigned to the new shooter to walk him from point to point in the stage.  As for me checking pistols when I picked them up, I dont think checking pistols at my cart would be a good idea, especially as I knew I was going directly to LT.    And for the record, my Uncle, who taught me gun safety, drilled into me to check every gun every time you pick it up.  and if you dont know how to check it, dont pick it up! 

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Since I have to shoot with both of you two regularly, 10 seconds each to give me a fighting chance.:lol:

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Reminds me of a time when Donald Duke and I were still sharing pistols.

 

One stage, as I was headed to the ULT, someone came over with a different issue that needed attending to, and, before you knew it, I was off to do what needed attending to.

 

Well, Duke gets to the LT on the next stage to find out that, in me getting out of my process, I neglected to unload the pistols.

 

They initially gave the SDQ to him, and he, being new, young , and at the time not knowing much better, said OK and relayed the experience to me.

 

I did make sure, though, that this was corrected as the SDQ was all on me.

 

It was a learning experience as, now, if someone comes up to me any time after I leave the LT until I clear at the ULT, I now tell them that they need to wait.

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8 hours ago, Catlow4697 said:

My Question is?.

Who doesn't check guns,when they are handed to them to use? 

First rule of safety 

The empty cartiges should have been found long before the loading table.

 

 

That was my first thought also. I know my guns are stored empty. Still, the first thing I do when I take them out to use or show someone is check them so both or us can see they are safe. Yet, I could see how someone would trust that another did what they should have.

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Fruit of the poisonous tree; Whoever failed to clear the guns wins the SDQ.

 

Nothing in the handbook says "you must clear your guns before you pick them up". So there is no penalty for that. What is left is a "Safety Concern".

 

Do you check and clear your guns when you unload your gear when you arrive on the range?

You leave your guns in your cart unattended during the match. Do you check them before you go to the loading table each time? Is that the safest place to be doing this w/o potential of sweeping the crowd? Are guns in holsters not considered "safe"? Isn't the safest place to check for a clear gun at the loading table?

 

I would prefer someone carrying a loaded gun through the crowd heading to the loading table than standing at their cart messing with the action of a potentially  loaded gun.

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Widder left out part of the story. What he didn't say is, he did some figgerin and realized he was getting whooped up on by a duelist. He acted like his pistols were messed up to take advantage of my gentlemanly nature and use mine. He had Imis distract me with a nanner split while he slipped some empties in my pistols.

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7 hours ago, Catlow4697 said:

My Question is?.

Who doesn't check guns,when they are handed to them to use? 

First rule of safety 

The empty cartiges should have been found long before the loading table.

 

 

This is indeed true.   And if the scenario had been real, I would have checked those pistols immediately.

 

But that was one of the reasons for my post to determine if there would be a penalty for BOTH

participants in these type situations.

 

Thanks everyone (except NannerSplit Williams) for their comments.

 

..........Widder

 

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