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Shotgun Reloading Info


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On 10/22/2019 at 1:26 PM, Tyrel Cody said:

I went with a MEC Sizemaster, because it has a resizer at the decap station that does a great job resizing the bases; a little more expensive.


After doing the research, I did the same. 
Brownell has the best price and free shipping.

Is anybody shooting 3/4 oz loads in 2-3/4" STS hulls?
I have a fresh pound of IMR Red that looks like a good starting point.
I assume the only way to get STS hulls is buying new ammunition first, then reloading.

My trap pard is having me over this Sunday for a full-on loading tutorial.
His wife passed away some years ago, and his entire house is dedicated to reloading now.

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14 hours ago, bgavin said:


After doing the research, I did the same. 
Brownell has the best price and free shipping.

Is anybody shooting 3/4 oz loads in 2-3/4" STS hulls?
I have a fresh pound of IMR Red that looks like a good starting point.
I assume the only way to get STS hulls is buying new ammunition first, then reloading.

My trap pard is having me over this Sunday for a full-on loading tutorial.
His wife passed away some years ago, and his entire house is dedicated to reloading now.

Once fired STS hulls are available on online auction sites, just like once-fired brass.  I quickly found a large lot selling for 6.35 cent each.  I have never bought STS shells.  BTW, Gun Clubs reload well too.  I reload them for my practice ammo.  Most clay ranges have an abundance of once-fired Gun Clubs for free.  Hodgdon's online data does not show a 3/4 oz load for IMR-Red in a STS hull.  They do list a load for 7/8 oz.  You may want to start your shotgun reloading hobby with published loads.

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Thanks!

The range I use polices up the hulls.
We do this at the end of every session, then reload the trap house machine for the next group.

Do you have an example of online auction sites for hulls?
This would save me a lot of futzing around....

I have 7/8 hulls coming, to use with the IMR Red.
Claybusters publishes 3/4 loads for use with other powders.
I will not deviate from a published load, neither higher nor lower.

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On 10/22/2019 at 1:30 PM, Tyrel Cody said:


What is the advantage over the charge bar that comes with the Sizemaster?

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1 hour ago, bgavin said:

Thanks!

The range I use polices up the hulls.
We do this at the end of every session, then reload the trap house machine for the next group.

Do you have an example of online auction sites for hulls?
This would save me a lot of futzing around....

I have 7/8 hulls coming, to use with the IMR Red.
Claybusters publishes 3/4 loads for use with other powders.
I will not deviate from a published load, neither higher nor lower.

 

I've used this guy fairly often over the years.

 

http://www.billydsupplies.com/product_info.php?products_id=31&osCsid=3d7caa1c2e756eb9d1f2d3e3a8724cba

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On 10/24/2019 at 4:58 AM, bgavin said:


Here is a short tutorial I found that explains various hull types.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX4SqH6I5PE

 

Interesting..Thanks for that.

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8 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

You can buy STS hulls off of GunBroker

I sent a PM with this information and a link to another site.  I just found Remington Nitro hulls on Gunbroker for 7 cents each for a lot of 500.  These would meet your needs.  (Nitros look like brass shotgun shells on your belt and are stylish.)

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Thanks!
I looked at Billy D... shipping costs are too high to make them practical.
I can pick up Gun Club new shells locally at $5.99 per box and re-use those Remington hulls.

I understand either G.C. or STS are good for mutliple reloads.
Q: what is the difference?

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1 minute ago, bgavin said:

Thanks!
I looked at Billy D... shipping costs are too high to make them practical.
I can pick up Gun Club new shells locally at $5.99 per box and re-use those Remington hulls.

I understand either G.C. or STS are good for mutliple reloads.
Q: what is the difference?

Gun Clubs have a steel base and ribbed plastic.  They hang up in some shotguns (but not mine).  I like the 1 oz loads.  STS hulls have brass base and smooth plastic,  Most shooters find they fly out of their shotguns.  Buy a $6 box of Gun Clubs and try them.  You will quickly find out if you want to buy more.  I don't know how many reloads they are good for.  I load them once with black powder and discard them after use.  My STS and Nitro hulls are good for many reloads.  After they get too scuffed or frosty for CAS I reload them for clays.  They are quite durable.

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Because of the steel base make sure you store the Remington Gun Clubs in a dry place.  I use MTM shotshell dry boxes (P/N SD-100-12-09) for all my loaded ammo. They come with 2 trays to hold 100 shells. However you can add a third tray and increase that to 150 rounds. I use them to store my BP rounds to ensure they don't adsorb any moisture. 

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On 10/22/2019 at 3:30 PM, Tyrel Cody said:

 

10 hours ago, bgavin said:


What is the advantage over the charge bar that comes with the Sizemaster?

 

To get the right crimp the stack height of all the components needs to be just so. With the adjustable bar you can vary the shot charge slightly to get the perfect crimp. Especially important if you load BP. Also you don't have to buy additional bushings or charge bars to change loads. The down side is that it can take longer to change loads that it does with the charge bar and bushings.

One thing about the bushings. They throw approximately the weight listed. I use a powder baffle to help maintain consistency. When verify the weight of the charge remember that powder settles so on a single stage press you need to approximate the extra 5 cycles between each powder drop. 

 

Also put a cookie sheet between your shotshell press and the bench. Collects all the spilled powder and shot that always happens when loading shotshells.

 

 

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Claybuster CB175 wads list reloading recopies for STS hulls here: CB175 Load Data

 

I use Clays with STS hulls for 3/4 oz. Cowboy loads. Never have any problem with shotgun knockdowns. Once-fired hulls are easy to find via Google. I bought a bunch a while back for about 10 cents each shipped from Gammells (sic), however I now shoot new STS's at trap and reload them. Wally World sells STS Nitros for $7 a box. Only word of caution with these is you need to have either a very heavy trap gun or a recoil reducer as they are 1-1/8 oz. 1245 fps loads that have a real punch. I get about 1/2 dozen reloads from them before dissuading.

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I shoot a Remington V3 for trap, so it will handle the Nitro recoil.
Walmart has closed up their ammo sales here in CA.
This AM, I will run to Sportsmans for a box of Nitro 27, and BassPro for some Gun Club.

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Howdy

 

With all due respect, rather than using loading recipes that might contain a typo in them, Why not go to the horse's mouth?

 

All the powder companies put out free reloading pamphlets. These will list many, many recipes for every conceivable shotgun load, by hull, powder, wad, and shot weight. If you use published data, you will not risk loading up something that might be potentially dangerous.

 

Most of them have data published on line too.

 

https://www.alliantpowder.com/default.aspx

 

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

 

Having a private lesson with an experienced friend is a very good idea. Just make sure the recipe he is using is a published one. For instance, not all powders may be suitable for what you want to do.

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6 hours ago, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

Howdy

 

With all due respect, rather than using loading recipes that might contain a typo in them, Why not go to the horse's mouth?

 

All the powder companies put out free reloading pamphlets. These will list many, many recipes for every conceivable shotgun load, by hull, powder, wad, and shot weight. If you use published data, you will not risk loading up something that might be potentially dangerous.

 

Most of them have data published on line too.

 

https://www.alliantpowder.com/default.aspx

 

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/

 

Having a private lesson with an experienced friend is a very good idea. Just make sure the recipe he is using is a published one. For instance, not all powders may be suitable for what you want to do.

The problem there is that few data sources have anything like the specs of Win AA, let alone under 1200 fps. There will likely be a degree of creativity, or swag, or subculture recommendations, in settling on a load for CAS. The closest I found, with a baseline of #8 shot like Win AA, was Extralite, Win AA hulls, 7/8 oz grey hulls, and #25 MEC bushing. My notes say it yielded 12.5 gr. I based it as close as I could on Alliant data. I make it a point to have chilled shot for less chance of blowback than magnum shot, which seems to be the most commonly found. I am quite satisfied with my shotgun ammo but would use a pound of Clays I have had around for some time, if I ran short of ExtraLite, which I just restocked from Powder Valley.

 

While Mec called for a #22 bushing, I found I had to go back to the well and ended up with the larger #25 to approximate the target powder weight, even then max less 12% instead of 10.

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On 7/22/2019 at 10:46 AM, Hells Comin said:

9.2 oz. Of  Alliant extra-lite -

Federal primers 209-

Clay buster lightning wads -

1-1/6 oz. #8-

Feels similar to featherlites- and it's super clean -

Used this load to win world speed 97 at EOT and others. 

Side note I use 1.8 -1.9 in my pistols with 105's its extra clean. Why spend more on other powders when this one does it all .

HOLY - - - - !  9.2 OUNCES OF extra-lite must shake the Earth.  Are you sure you don't mean 9.2 grains? 

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10 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Also put a cookie sheet between your shotshell press and the bench. Collects all the spilled powder and shot that always happens when loading shotshells.

Great idea.  No more roller derby reloading! 

 

One related caution to a new shotshell reloader.  On several presses I have owned over the decades, often, a few stray shot will fall out the dispenser tube when you raise the lever after crimping.  Keep a sharp eye on the newly dispensed primers.  If a primer is not sitting flat, it probably means a shot pellet has fallen into the receptacle before the new primer was dispensed.   Usually, if the pellet is a soft lead alloy, it will just crush down when the primer is s seated.  But twice over about 50 years, I've had one of those pellets detonate a primer under lever pressure.  Detonating a #209 primer will definitely wake a person up, especially if you have spilled powder laying all over the table, which burns very fast and produces choking smoke.  The powder magazine is also usually located directly above the reprime die, so that is an added possible hazard, although I've never experienced one igniting. 

 

We all wear our protective glasses when reloading, right? 

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4 hours ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

I am quite satisfied with my shotgun ammo but would use a pound of Clays I have had around for some time, if I ran short of ExtraLite, which I just restocked from Powder Valley.

 

I contacted Alliant and was told the VMD for Extra-Lite is 0.139 and Clay Dot is 0.137.
Hodgdon Clays VMD is 0.1462 so it is tiny bit fluffier.

Hodgdon Online has a 3/4 oz load of 14.1 grains of Clays (2.06 cc) at 1,150 fps.

Alliant's guide has nothing for 3/4 oz load, but Claybusters does.
A 3/4 oz load of Extra-Lite is 14.5 grains (2.02 cc), at 1,200 fps.

In a 6.5 SxS, the recoil is 9.58 lbs vs 10.14 lbs.

Q: do you notice one being a cleaner burn than the other?

I am intrigued by Extra-Lite for 3/4 oz loads.

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On 7/22/2019 at 1:46 PM, Hells Comin said:

9.2 oz. Of  Alliant extra-lite -

Federal primers 209-

Clay buster lightning wads -

1-1/6 oz. #8-

Feels similar to featherlites- and it's super clean -

Used this load to win world speed 97 at EOT and others. 

Side note I use 1.8 -1.9 in my pistols with 105's its extra clean. Why spend more on other powders when this one does it all .

 

I rest my case.

 

A more subtle typo than 9.2 ounces may not be as easy to spot.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, bgavin said:

I contacted Alliant and was told the VMD for Extra-Lite is 0.139 and Clay Dot is 0.137.
Hodgdon Clays VMD is 0.1462 so it is tiny bit fluffier.

Hodgdon Online has a 3/4 oz load of 14.1 grains of Clays (2.06 cc) at 1,150 fps.

Alliant's guide has nothing for 3/4 oz load, but Claybusters does.
A 3/4 oz load of Extra-Lite is 14.5 grains (2.02 cc), at 1,200 fps.

In a 6.5 SxS, the recoil is 9.58 lbs vs 10.14 lbs.

Q: do you notice one being a cleaner burn than the other?

I am intrigued by Extra-Lite for 3/4 oz loads.

I did not mean I would substitute Clays for ExtraLite in the same setup. I would do the homework for a precise load, but I have a Clays load in my notes that probably came from the Wire.

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My objectives for reloading:
• 3/4 oz lowest recoil for cowboy action with a Stoeger side-by-side
• 1.0 oz for duffer's trap with a Remington V3
• Use the same powder and primers for both
• #8 shot and Remington hulls for both


I built an extensive spreadsheet of loads and calculated recoil using the standard formulas.

I learned that Extra-Lite is very favored, and it caught my eye.
However, I cannot find a low-recoil load of Extra-Lite that matches the Clays.


For lowest recoil:
14.1 gr of Clays
1,150 fps
7,100 psi
CB0175-12 wads
Fed 209A primer
3/4 oz #8 shot
9.58 lbs of recoil in a 6.5 lb Stoeger SxS
Lower pressure load will be more dirty, but I don't see this as a problem in the SxS.


For trap:
16.7 gr of Clays
1,180 fps
9,900 psi
Rem TGT12S wads
Fed 209A primer
1.0 oz #8 shot
Cleanest burn for the V3 gas-gun.

 

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On 10/24/2019 at 6:14 PM, bgavin said:

Is anybody shooting 3/4 oz loads in 2-3/4" STS hulls?

I shoot STS with 12gn. Titegroup, under a Clay buster 75 (pink) wad with 3/4 Oz. of 7-1/2 lead.  That load is easy on my tiny wife (calls it her "Butterfly load"), holds a tight crimp, has no problem KDing targets, launching poppers, or dropping clay birds.  It's also cheap to load. 

You do have to be able to shoot the SG accurately and hit targets pretty dead-on with such a small amount of lead.   

 

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I'm not that adventurous to try unpublished loads.

Hodgdon does not publish a 3/4 oz load for Titegroup.
Q: did you mean "Titewad" as there is a published 3/4 oz load for that powder, but none as low as 12 grains.

I opted for #8 instead of #7.5, as the smaller shot doesn't hurt as much if it bounces back into your face.

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On 10/24/2019 at 7:51 PM, Tyrel Cody said:

 

Infinite adjustment for both powder and lead. No bushings!


This looks seriously interesting to me.
However... I only use 1 powder and 1 type of shot.
Is this overkill?
Is there a "down side" other than the up front expense?

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14 minutes ago, bgavin said:


This looks seriously interesting to me.
However... I only use 1 powder and 1 type of shot.
Is this overkill?
Is there a "down side" other than the up front expense?

 

No downside that I can think of. You only use 1 powder and 1 shot now; that could change. Not that long ago there was a powder shortage and we had to use what we could find.

 

The main reason I got one is that I couldn't find any of the number 25 bushings that I have and instead of buying another I bought the universal charge bar; of course as soon as I ordered one I found the bushing I needed :lol:

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25 minutes ago, bgavin said:

> snip <
Is there a "down side" other than the up front expense?

IMHO ... the only down side ... is ... (if you only have one) ... that everytime you change the load you have to spend the time to dump/weigh enough powder/shot to verify the settings before you can begin loading.

When I used to use a Lee turret for a bunch of different (low volume) loads I complained about the (lack of) flexibility using the numbered powder discs.

When I finally started shooting enough rounds a month of the same couple of loads ... that I could justify owning a 650 ... it didn't take me very long to end up owinig dedicated powder measures for my most common loads. 

Just sayin' ...  (like .. you gotta pull out the shot bar and the powder bottle anyhow ... awful easy to drop in a numbered bushing and have a dedicated 3/4 and 1 ounce shot bar).  

Save the adjustable thing for working up/developing loads to save having to own a whole set ... :ph34r:

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2 hours ago, bgavin said:

I'm not that adventurous to try unpublished loads.

Hodgdon does not publish a 3/4 oz load for Titegroup.
Q: did you mean "Titewad" as there is a published 3/4 oz load for that powder, but none as low as 12 grains.

I opted for #8 instead of #7.5, as the smaller shot doesn't hurt as much if it bounces back into your face.

I apologize for my serious error.  I was back at work, when I realized I had named the wrong powder.  I edited the post just now. 

 

The correct powder is Extralite, not Titegroup.   I suspect 12gn of Titegroup might pack a serious wallop and possibly do damage to some guns.   

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I have a calculated load for Winchester AA Featherlites
• 12.4 grains WAA Lite

• 26 gram (0.917 oz) #8 shot
• 980 fps
• 5700 psi
• 9.9 lbs recoil in a Stoeger SxS


There is a published low-recoil load for Clays

• 14.1 grains
• CB0175-12 wad
• Fed 209A primer
• 3/4 oz #8 shot
• 1150 fps
• 7100 psi
• 9.6 lbs recoil in a Stoeger SxS


I bumped up this lowest Clays load just a tad to match a MEC #24 bushing and avoid a squib

• 14.4 grains
• CB0175-12 wad
• Fed 209A primer
• 3/4 oz #8 shot
• 1163 fps
• 7113 psi
• 9.8 lbs recoil in a Stoeger SxS


Q: is adding weight legal in SASS?

If I add 1.0 pound as an internal butt stock weight, the recoil drops to 8.5 lbs.


The above exercise shows me it is worthwhile to do light hand loads in lieu of AA Featherlites.

 

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, bgavin said:

Q: is adding weight legal in SASS?

 

Yes.  Many shooters add a chunk of lead pipe, or a Dead Mule or other recoil reducer within the butt stock.   It affects balance point, especially if you already have take weight off the front of the SxS by trimming barrel lengths.   Well fitted shotgun stocks, and practice holding the shotgun firmly into the shoulder when pulling the trigger - are even more effective than ultra light loads.

 

Modifications inside guns are generally allowed except when one is called out in the rules as not allowed.  External modifications (those that can be spotted with gun closed) are generally disallowed except when one is specifically allowed in the rules.

 

And, you might see my load recommendations to you made on another forum site about 3 days ago.  Those are from loads that have been fired extensively in SASS matches by recoil sensitive shooter.

 

Good luck, GJ

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The recoil reduction is specifically for my wife.
She is recoil-averse after a nasty experience with her Dad's 10-gauge.

I figure light loads + Kick-EEZ pad + a dead mule is the best I can possibly do.

GJ, I saw your other comments.
For my own peace of mind, I have to work within the min/max range of published loads.
Any Clays I buy will be the current product, not the old Aussie manufacture.

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4 hours ago, bgavin said:

For my own peace of mind, I have to work within the min/max range of published loads.

 

Then you will probably not find (published) loads with lighter recoil than the factory Winchester Featherlites / Low Noise Low Recoil loads.

 

The main publishers of loading data just do not list good loads for light cowboy ammunition!  Not enough shooters to worry about that want a pipsqueak shotgun load, and too low a working chamber pressure curve to make SURE the shot and wad are always going to leaving the barrel.    Risk, risk, risk.

 

The types of light loads you are asking for are what many call "off the books."   Maybe they are good, maybe they are squibby.  Most of them have never been pressure tested (as all loads that are published have been).  If you use loads that you have either seen shot well, or from shooters that really know how to reload,  or you test the loads yourself (especially for performance in cold weather), you have a better assurance the loads are safe and consistent.  But never a perfect guarantee.

 

The types of loads you are willing to accept are published on-the-book loads.

 

You don't get to have it both ways.  You have seen already the lowest recoil loads that manufacturers are willing to publish.   You have hit the wall with at least one company telling you that you can't have any lower recoil load data than what they have already published.   So, you have to decide which is more important - cowboy ultra light recoil, or high degree of safety and performance out of your loads.  If you go to off the book loads, watch carefully for squibs and wads stuck in barrels.  

 

 

An insider secret - there is no perfect guarantee of safety reloading shotshells even WITH published loads.  Read the front material of any of the loading data publications or pamphlets or on-line data website entry pages.   Disclaimers of responsibility abound!

 

Another insider secret - shotguns can usually take pressures that are at least double those produced by light loads (like Featherlites).

 

Another not so secret data point - shotgun barrels do rupture.   Even with cowboy loads.   A picture of a 97 shotgun with a ruptured barrel that happened during a Wild Bunch match was posted on the Wild Bunch forum about a month ago.  No one was hurt - that time.  I've seen one person hurt badly by a ruptured chamber while shooting next to them on a trap field.  

 

Good luck, GJ

 

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After 39 years of marriage, I know that if I present something she really does not like, she will back off, turn away and never look back.

For this reason, I have her training on Single-Six in 22LR which have the same weight and feel as her Vaqueros, but no recoil.
I will introduce her to AA Featherlites in my Remington V3, which shoots nice and soft for her introduction.
AA Featherlites will not cycle the action of my V3, but that is a non-problem for trap.

AA Featherlites are $90 per case now.  I have three cases in stock.
I had to wait a few weeks for them to arrive at Bass Pro.
The FFLs here are talking about a surcharge to receive ammo shipped to them.
Price, shipping, fees, delay and availability pushed me into reloading shotshells.
If we don't get rid of Newsom soon, I wonder if CA will impose a 10-day waiting period to buy ammo...

The best I can do with the Stoeger is light loads, a dead mule and a Kick-EEZ pad.
 

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