Palouse Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 - Did Pietta or Uberti make open top Colt replicas, and use barrels with the same bore and groove dimensions as the equivalent reproduction cap & ball barrel? I realize "Open Top 1872" infers new-made barrel. - Were any of the Mason or Richards conversions from P or U made with C&B barrels? I see posts here and other places for open tops factory chambered in, for example, 38 Colt or 44 Colt. From the comments posters have on reloading, I assume the barrel groove dimensions are about .357 and .427, respectively. ("I can shoot 44 Special in my 44 Colt Richards conversion", for example.) - Were there any made with .360" bore/.~.375" groove, or .440" bore/~.456 groove? (Older, deep-groove rifling found in cap and ball guns.) - Any designed & chambered specifically for use of heel-type bullets? - Were all cartridge conversions done with "modern cartridge" barrel dimensions? I realize that current cap and ball .44 bore/groove dimensions are nearly identical to popular 45 Colt dimensions. Thus, many 45 caliber cartridge conversions available. I tried finding published historical lists of available models from either vendor, but too much "noise" for this question on Google. I'm looking for something more painful than trying to shoot CAS with out-of-the-box, untuned, '70's & '80's vintage C&B revolvers. Now that I'm nearly done tuning my guns, I am looking for a good winter project to match frustration and grief level. Loading for heel-type cartridges probably would meet the ticket. (Actually, just curious.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 The Uberti C&B barrels do not line up properly with the Open Top cartridge Cylinder. I don't believe Pietta ever made any. The ASM cartridge Open Top might. I sold mine before I could check. --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 What Dawg said. And to further confuse the issue, there are old-spec and new-spec .38 Colt and .44 Colt. The old style had heel base bullets and fit the percussion bores. New style are inside lube modern ammo for modern bores. Some folks have converted both Pietta and Uberti percussion pistols and then shot the old style heel base bullets in the percussion bores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Monger Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 I have only seen a couple Uberti 1872 revolvers that we’re supposed to accept 44 colt. They were head spaced for and accepted 44 special. I have a friend with a pair of Richard Mason style Uberti that are supposed to be 44 colt and he uses 44 Russian in them but the special is too long. Both are using .429 bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Dave Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 Here's a good video from Mike Beliveau on the conversions. This one is about 36/38 caliber, but he has another one about 44/45 caliber guns. He starts to talk about the ammunition and barrels at about the 4:25 mark. Good info. These guns were custom made, from C&B guns, before the Italian replicas we available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palouse Posted July 18, 2019 Author Share Posted July 18, 2019 Thanks for the replies. Custom smiths are willing to produce about anything. I'm curious if off the shelf was ever available. I didn't even get makers right, ASM instead of Pietta. Is there any posted chart(s) of models available at any point in time; short of buying old marketing brochures from eBay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 The short answer is NO. Neither Pietta, Armi San Marco nor Uberti made conversions that used a .375 Bore. Also no posted charts of availability other than the old marketing brochures. If you really want to play with those dimensions, You could, I suppose anti up for Kirst Konverters and attack actual .36 Caliber Cap Guns, convert them and then work up Heel Base bullets for them. Most, in the process of building a conversion, opt to sleeve the barrel from .375 down to 357 to enable the use of readily available ammunition and components. Or just shoot hollow base bullets. Good luck in your endeavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 I recently got an Uberti '61 Kirst conversion from Jay Strite. It has an unlined bore. Using my regular 125 gr .38's seated a little deeper, as the Kirst takes 1.42" max, shot it in 4 matches at 4 clubs. No misses. Good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawhorse Kid Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Cimarron Arms made a "Man With No Name" in .38 It is a 72 Open Top w/ a 51 Navy barrel. https://www.cimarron-firearms.com/man-with-no-name-conversion-38-colt-s-w-special-7-1-2-one-inlay.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 7 hours ago, Sawhorse Kid said: Cimarron Arms made a "Man With No Name" in .38 It is a 72 Open Top w/ a 51 Navy barrel. https://www.cimarron-firearms.com/man-with-no-name-conversion-38-colt-s-w-special-7-1-2-one-inlay.html It looks like a '51 barrel but will not fit on a '51 percussion gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Hey Abilene I have two Snubbies I built on Pietta .36 Navy donors with unlined barrels. I often shoot em with 105Gr or 125Gr Truncated Cone bullets. Same result. Whack-a-Target no problem. Barrels remain unlined. PS: I believe Uberti sourced the MWNN barrels from the 1851 R/M with some machining steps omitted and some added. I once swapped '51 R/M barrels onto Open Tops. Worked a Treat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 If you want to convert .375/.380 bore CB's to cartridge just use swaged hollow base wad-cutter bullets. Just don't seat them flush. Let them extend out of the case so folks can see they are loaded/live ammo. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 FYI The soft swedged hollow base expanse to the .375 bore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palouse Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 Thanks to all that have replied. Good info on the various ASM and Uberti issues. Custom work is out of scope. "Regular" .357" bullets will work, that is the beauty of extra deep rifling, but not likely the accuracy I would like. Hollow based bullets have always been an option, I love playing with loads for HB wadcutters, seems to always "work good enough", but is too easy. Hmm. Kirst Converter. A Kirst option for outside lubed 44 Colt seems to be out for 1860 and Dragoon. 38 LC for 51/61 is a good option. Opening the recoil shield and fitting the pawl to the Conversion cylinder are still "custom", but within my tool and skill set. However, likely I would have to use a 357 Mag reamer on a 38LC chamber to get that "bored-through" chamber. Seems like a kludge. I launched an email to Kirst asking if they provide option for bore-through (original) instead of inside-lubed (modern) chamber. I have other, original revolvers and rifles with "outside lubed" chambers, this should not be that much different for a CAS revolver. ('Cept new molds, time/place for casting, extra reloading time/challenge, mis-match with match rifle, can't share ammo, ...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Dave Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 6 hours ago, Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 said: If you want to convert .375/.380 bore CB's to cartridge just use swaged hollow base wad-cutter bullets. Just don't seat them flush. Let them extend out of the case so folks can see they are loaded/live ammo. . Nate, those are purrrrrrdy!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Nate ALWAYS has some of the neatest toys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palouse Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 In today's email inbox: "Th[e] throats of our 38 caliber cylinders are already bored for heeled base bullets (.375" dia)." - Walt Kirst Good to go for the .36! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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