Handgun Shipping Question

[Lastcall Ranger]

Those of you without FFL's, how are you shipping handguns?  I just looked at the UPS and FedEx sites, and the quoted NDA shipping costs kinda surprised me, not in a good way.  I see on GunBroker people quoting $35 shipping, but that will not cover the cost based on what I have seen.  Thanks.

[Tyrel Cody]

I take them to my FFL dealer and he ships them USPS for me. He charges me a nominal fee on top of shipping. Usually less than $40 unless it's to CA; then he charges quite a bit more.

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

Not everyone follows the rules when shipping 

[Sedalia Dave]

Most of the time handguns will fit into a large USPS flat rate box.  That is what my FFL uses.  He also shipps long guns via USPS. Saves a lot of money over Fed-Up

[bgavin]

I find many small FFL refuse to ship to any of the gun control states.

However, the guy that charges different rates is just a thief.
That is akin to me repairing a computer for $150 regular, or $300 for a dentist, or $1,000 for a lawyer.
It is far more honorable to simply say "I won't ship to CA".

[Tyrel Cody]

13 minutes ago, bgavin said:

I find many small FFL refuse to ship to any of the gun control states.

However, the guy that charges different rates is just a thief.
That is akin to me repairing a computer for $150 regular, or $300 for a dentist, or $1,000 for a lawyer.
It is far more honorable to simply say "I won't ship to CA".

 

So if I/We advertise firearms on the classifieds and state "My FFL won't ship to CA", you're good with that?

 

[McCandless]

1 hour ago, Lastcall Ranger said:

Those of you without FFL's, how are you shipping handguns?  I just looked at the UPS and FedEx sites, and the quoted NDA shipping costs kinda surprised me, not in a good way.  I see on GunBroker people quoting $35 shipping, but that will not cover the cost based on what I have seen.  Thanks.

 

Many of the "individuals" selling on Gunbroker have FFLs.  An FFL can ship by USPS which is indeed cheaper than what a non-FFL can do.

The least expensive way for an individual to ship a handgun is to let an FFL do it for you.   I pay Transfer Fee plus shipping. 

Maybe it helps that I am a long time patron of the store.

I did have my FFL ship an SAA to a buyer's FFL in California, and, did not incur any additional costs. 

 

[bgavin]

15 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

So if I/We advertise firearms on the classifieds and state "My FFL won't ship to CA", you're good with that?

 

Yes, absolutely.
This eliminates getting knee-deep into a transaction, creating an account, entering credit card information, only to be told "We don't ship to CA".

My Bisley Vaquero came from a pawnshop FFL that states this on his front page.
I called him.
Very nice guy.. said the CA DOJ makes it such a PITA that it is NFG shipping to CA... (love those buzzwords).

Sedalia Dave sent me a list of FFL in that zip code.
There was an FFL 3 blocks up the street from the seller, and this one was willing to ship to CA.
My seller walked the gun up the street, transferred to them, and they shipped to me.

[Patagonia Pete]

Use the SMG ("ship my gun") service at Buds ... 

https://www.shipmygun.com/go/index.php?osCsid=blutuoe2o6elm48as0nn138a05

 

[bgavin]

Thanks!
That is good to know.

I'm a regular Buds customer.
The only downside to Buds, is how LONG it takes to ship.

Buds waits a full 7 days for an ACH transfer before shipping.
A typical purchase from Buds requires a full two weeks or longer to reach my FFL.

Bud's is not the lowest price, by a long shot.
However, their FFL database is huge, and my guy is now on file with Buds.
Purchases are pain-free, but slow.

 

[Tyrel Cody]

52 minutes ago, bgavin said:

Yes, absolutely.
This eliminates getting knee-deep into a transaction, creating an account, entering credit card information, only to be told "We don't ship to CA".

My Bisley Vaquero came from a pawnshop FFL that states this on his front page.
I called him.
Very nice guy.. said the CA DOJ makes it such a PITA that it is NFG shipping to CA... (love those buzzwords).

Sedalia Dave sent me a list of FFL in that zip code.
There was an FFL 3 blocks up the street from the seller, and this one was willing to ship to CA.
My seller walked the gun up the street, transferred to them, and they shipped to me.

 

Well, I meant here on these classifieds specifically where you can't enter cc info or create an account.

 

Seems like every time someone post "No CA shipping" they get jumped and screamed at either with replies to there post or via PM.

 

I know it's not you guys in CA fault, it's also not our fault either.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

2 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Most of the time handguns will fit into a large USPS flat rate box.  That is what my FFL uses.  He also shipps long guns via USPS. Saves a lot of money over Fed-Up

Unless you are an FFL-You can not ship a handgun via USPS.

Non FFL can ship long guns USPS.

OLG

[bgavin]

Folks refuse to ship to the gun control states either on principle or because it is a PITA.

The buyer is obviously pro-gun, so he isn't the problem.
Nor does the buyer vote for gun-grabber politicians.
He is just stuck in a gun control state.

Those sellers who stand on principle apparently have SO much business, they don't need mine.
This is similar to the attitude of Dick's, Starbucks and the other "woke" businesses that turn away their customers.

I sent emails to a couple of vendors telling them they lost a sale.
Then I add them to a growing list of sellers to never, ever contact again.
You lose.

My KS pawnshop FFL told me he should "probably" sign up with the CA DOJ (a 10 minute online process) because of demand.
I dunno.. I'm not an FFL, nor do I play one on TV.

I figure once the CA DOJ process is completed, it is a one-time PITA...  certainly not an "every shipment" PITA.

[Patagonia Pete]

My bad ... the SMG service doesn't have anything to do w/ Buds ... they just happened to have a vendor link off their web page.

You just get a mailing label and they tell you where to drop it off.

I just tried it again and I can't even get it to work (past asking for gun type) ... so I don't know what is going on with them now. 

I couldn't get it to work w/ Explorer .. Chrome or anything.

https://www.shipmygun.com/go/

[bgavin]

A pity.
Yet another piece of poorly written and untested bit of software.

[Patagonia Pete]

16 minutes ago, bgavin said:

A pity.
Yet another piece of poorly written and untested bit of software.

Well ... it worked fine last time I used it. Just trying to stay on topic and not blow it away w/ too much expert testimony (about something else). 

 

Well I got it to work just now ... I set up an insured ($500) shipment of a handgun (max weight 3lbs) to go from my zip code in Arizona to a dealer I selected in Maryland ... the cost popped up as soon as I selected the origination location. In this "test" case it came out to $46. If I would have gone through w/ the transaction I would have been emailed a shipping label and then dropped the package off at  FEDEX .

[Seth Bradford]

4 hours ago, Lastcall Ranger said:

Those of you without FFL's, how are you shipping handguns?  I just looked at the UPS and FedEx sites, and the quoted NDA shipping costs kinda surprised me, not in a good way.  I see on GunBroker people quoting $35 shipping, but that will not cover the cost based on what I have seen.  Thanks.

These handguns you speak of... are you shipping them for a sale or to a gunsmith for service? 

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

9 hours ago, Patagonia Pete said:

My bad ... the SMG service doesn't have anything to do w/ Buds ... they just happened to have a vendor link off their web page.

You just get a mailing label and they tell you where to drop it off.

I just tried it again and I can't even get it to work (past asking for gun type) ... so I don't know what is going on with them now. 

I couldn't get it to work w/ Explorer .. Chrome or anything.

https://www.shipmygun.com/go/

As a FFL I ship to CA. Signing up with the CA DOJ was easy. If I sell a gun to a CA resident he sends me his dealers info. I log on to the CA DOJ website and enter their info and hit submit. I get an authorization to ship letter almost immediately. I print a copy for my files, and a copy for the CA dealer and I’m done. Takes 5 extra minutes. I used to charge an extra $10 for CA sales but I do not do that anymore. I have a lot of good customers in CA.

[watab kid]

if you ship direct to an FFL they will require you to include ID for it in the package , its better to go FFL to FFL for everyones sake but it adds cost as now you have another person investing time/cost to the mix , it saves a lot of headaches and that is worth something in the big picture , 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

18 minutes ago, watab kid said:

if you ship direct to an FFL they will require you to include ID for it in the package , its better to go FFL to FFL for everyones sake but it adds cost as now you have another person investing time/cost to the mix , it saves a lot of headaches and that is worth something in the big picture , 

If they accept shipments from a non-licensee.

 

Phantom

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

11 hours ago, watab kid said:

if you ship direct to an FFL they will require you to include ID for it in the package , its better to go FFL to FFL for everyones sake but it adds cost as now you have another person investing time/cost to the mix , it saves a lot of headaches and that is worth something in the big picture , 

Never had to do that when sending one to the maker for repair.

OLG

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

With what you're probably saving on an internet purchase, (if that's what you're doing) a few bucks for shipping/processing at your local FFL shouldn't be a big deal. If buying on GB, you get the shipping figure the seller gives. Don't like it, don't buy. I buy on GB because I can't find it local.

So do your local FFL a solid and transfer through them to the other guy's FFL... just easier.

[bgavin]

I always give the locals a shot first.  All to no avail.

Sportsmans Warehouse is cheaper for a standard Stoeger coach gun, if they can get them.
There is no shipping or FFL transfer fees.
Here in Kalifornistan, sales tax is collected no matter how it arrives, so that is a wash.

I didn't want the standard model, so I put in a request at Sportsmans to buy a Stoeger Supreme.
They diligently wrote my information on a Post-It and threw it away.
I called their Customer Service, wanting to buy this SG.
They said "yeah, yeah" and blew me off.

Bass Pro is the same.  If it is not on their web catalog, they are not interested in ordering it.
Even if they do, the premium they charge makes it a wash vs. an internet vendor.
Delivery and waiting time is the same.

This reinforces to me, that so many vendors are doing so much business, they don't want mine.
 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

 

It's no different where I live.   I will see a certain gun for sale that is C&R eligible, and when I write to ask the seller if they will ship it to me in Massachusetts, they say no.   It's just part of reality.

 

Other guns that are not C&R eligible and have to go to a regular FFL have the same problem.  People just don't want to ship here.

 

[watab kid]

no - not to factory for repair , but good practice anyway , 

 

agreed on "if they accept from non-licensee " many will not 

[Lastcall Ranger]

On 7/15/2019 at 8:38 AM, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

Not everyone follows the rules when shipping 

I think that is a really true statement.  I just sold a non cowboy revolver, a vintage Colt Detective Special, to a non FFL holder in Wisconsin.  The FFL I use to receive firearms advised me to ship it to the buyer's  FFL myself, shipping should be about $35, and I wouldn't incur my FFL's transfer fee.   Sounded good, I had the buyer check with his FFL to make sure he would accept shipment from me, a non-FFL, got his approval, and I decided to ship it myself.  Shipping costs I had seen quoted in ads were in the $35-$45 range.  Sounded good.  Well, I started reading the fine print for shipping handguns via USPS, UPS, and FedEx to make sure I was doing it legally. 

USPS, which I have used for long guns in the past, clearly states on their website they do not accept handguns for shipment from anyone to anywhere.

Both UPS and FedEx, say they only accept handguns for Next Day Air shipments, no Second Day Air shipments.  

The quoted prices for a three lb. box via Next Day Air to ship from SC to MN from both UPS and FedEx was in the $80.00 range.  I did find a discount code for UPS that brought it down to about $42.00, which I could live with.  Before the buyer from MN committed, I was talking to a buyer in WA, so I checked to cost to ship there if his purchase had been completed, and my shipping cost would have been close to $100 via UPS or FedEx.  

I was just a little unpleasantly surprised, thought that I could ship a handgun second day air anywhere n the us for about $35-$40.    

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

PLZ post that USPS site that says no-one can ship a HG via USPS.

I know for fact that FFL's can do such.......

UPS/FedX next day has been the only shipping venue for non FFL's for many, many yrs..

The fee that FFL told you about, is what HE pays.......

BTW-UPS and FedX have the BATFE data base in there system, to confirm FFL is current and active.

Tell the counter clerk it's a gun-DO NOT WRITE SUCH on the shipper.

OLG

[Lastcall Ranger]

I read further per your comments Lumpy, it appears you are correct.  I cannot mail a handgun per USPS rules, but an FFL can mail to an FFL  See section 432.23 below.  What I can save shipping a handgun via USPS thru an FFL will pay for the FFL transfer fee in the future.  I guess my FFL did not realize non FFLL's cannot use USPS services for handguns, while he can.  Thanks for the heads up, I completely missed that section. 

432.2 Handguns

Handguns and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person are nonmailable unless mailed between the parties listed in this section, after the filing of an affidavit or statement described in 432.22 or 432.24, and are subject to the following:

1. Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 431.2 and the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 may be mailed between curio and relic collectors only when those firearms also meet the definition of an antique firearm under 431.3.
2. Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 431.2, which are certified by the curator of a municipal, state, or federal museum that exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest, may be accepted for mailing between governmental museums without regard to the restrictions provided for handguns in 432.21 through 432.24 and Exhibit 432.25.
3. Air guns (see 431.6) that do not fall within the definition of firearms under 431.1 and are capable of being concealed on a person are mailable, but must include Adult Signature service under DMM 503.8. Mailers must comply with all applicable state and local regulations.
4. Parts of handguns are mailable, except for handgun frames, receivers or other parts or components regulated under Chapter 44, Title 18, U.S.C.
5. Mailers are also subject to applicable restrictions by governments of a state, territory, or district.

   432.21 Authorized Persons

   Subject to 432.22, handguns may be mailed by a licensed manufacturer of firearms, a licensed dealer of firearms, a licensed importer of firearms, or an authorized agent of the federal government or the government of a state, territory, or district, only when addressed to a person in one of the following categories for use in the person’s official duties, and upon filing the required affidavit or certificate:

6. Officers of the Army, Coast Guard, Air Force, Navy, Marine Corps, or Organized Reserve Corps.
7. Officers of the National Guard or militia of a state, territory, or district.
8. Officers of the United States or of a state, territory, or district, whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitment.
9. USPS employees authorized by the Chief Postal Inspector.
10. Officers and employees of enforcement agencies of the United States.
11. Watchmen engaged in guarding the property of the United States, a state, territory, or district.
12. Purchasing agent or other designated member of agencies employing officers and employees included in 432.21c through e.

13. 432.22 Affidavit of Addressee

    Any person proposing to mail a handgun under 432.21 must file with the Postmaster, at the time of mailing, an affidavit signed by the addressee setting forth that the addressee is qualified to receive the firearm under a particular category of 432.21a through 432.21g, and that the firearm is intended for the addressee’s official use. The affidavit must also bear a certificate stating that the firearm is for the official duty use of the addressee, signed by one of the following, as appropriate:

14. For officers of Armed Forces, by the commanding officer.
15. For officers and employees of enforcement agencies, by the head of the agency employing the addressee to perform the official duty with which the firearm is to be used.
16. For watchmen, by the chief clerk of the department, bureau, or independent branch of the government of the United States, the state, the territory, or the district by which the watchman is employed.
17. For the purchasing agent or other designated member of enforcement agencies, by the head of such agency, that the firearm is to be used by an officer or employee included in 432.21c through 432.21e.

18. 432.23 Manufacturers, Dealers, and Importers

    Handguns may also be mailed between licensed manufacturers of firearms, licensed dealers of firearms, and licensed importers of firearms in customary trade shipments, or for repairing or replacing parts.

    432.24 Certificate of Manufacturers, Dealers, and Importers

    A federal firearms licensee manufacturer, dealer, or importer need not file the affidavit under 432.22, but must file with the Postmaster a statement on PS Form 1508, Statement by Shipper of Firearms, signed by the mailer that he or she is a licensed manufacturer, dealer, or importer of firearms. The mailer must also state that the parcels containing handguns, or parts and components of handguns under 432.2d, are being mailed in customary trade shipments or contain such articles for repairing or replacing parts, and that to the best of their knowledge the addressees are licensed manufacturers, dealers, or importers of firearms. Registered Mail service is recommended.

    Postmasters may forward an unsatisfactory mailer statement to the PCSC for a ruling.

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

SMH...

 

And don't forget to insure that gun...that'll raise your price a bit.

 

Phantom