Arithmetic Challenge at Starbucks

[Dantankerous]

42 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Nope. Cancer. 

 

Stage 4 +

 

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

We're talking about this one store.

 

I don't think anyone is saying that it is corporate policy, or even a corporate-wide anti-cop culture.  But there have been a half dozen incidents like this since 2017 that have made national news. Which likely means that there have been several score such things in that time.

The complaint, in my opinion is several fold. First the obvious, one person whines about being offended because he or she can see police and the employee, rather than saying the customer should move, or look in another direction, tells the 5 or 6 officers to move or to leave. Second, I think we all remember this kerfluffle   when two guys who had not bought anything asked to use the restroom, and, per policy, were denied access, then had to be removed by police.  But no one raised a fuss when an on duty officer was refused use of the restroom and quietly left while an employee continued to loudly proclaim that he should know that the restroom is only for paying customers.  

 

Third, Starbucks shut down for a day for "Racial Sensitivity Training" after the black guys were refused use of the restroom.  Where was the "Occupational Sensitivity Training" when the officer was yelled at?

It is the corporate double standard that grates on people, I think.  Along with Starbucks corporate claiming there is no bias in their organization while clearly discriminating against certain types of people.  There was the incident a few months ago in Palo Alto, CA in which one customer loudly and aggressively insulted another for having the audacity to be wearing a MAGA hat in her presence (although a man wearing any hat indoors is somewhat nekulturny - military and LEO exceptions apply), and the staff of Starbucks did nothing to stop it.

 

1 hour ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

They are all not just from California any more.

 

A lot of them are imports to CA in the first place.  Or their fringe-left parents were imports.  While CA for the past two decades has become a left-radical state (and has had a Democrat controlled legislature since 1959, save for one session where the GOP held both houses by slim margines), before that it had be fairly moderate, more often supporting the GOP presidential candidate than the DNC candidate.  

[Rye Miles #13621]

I get what you’re saying Joe, but the OP was about this one store in AZ. There’s now a Dump Starbucks meme going around and I don’t think it’s fair to the many Starbucks that don’t operate like this. That was my only point.

[Henry T Harrison]

I don’t know why any police officer would even be in a Starbucks 

[Subdeacon Joe]

5 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I get what you’re saying Joe, but the OP was about this one store in AZ. There’s now a Dump Starbucks meme going around and I don’t think it’s fair to the many Starbucks that don’t operate like this. That was my only point.

 

Ditto.  But any thread will start off about one incident in one place.  But look at how many times in the past 10 years the political leanings of Starbucks management has led to corporate decisons that seem to discriminate against police, or gun owners, or other non-progressive position.

I think this is a case of people deciding to take a page from the progrssives playbook and raise a stink about about a minor incident  inform the public and take action against a clear case of gross discrimination.  ;-)

[Smoken D]

2 hours ago, Dantankerous said:

Smokin D,

 

I think the conversation is about the PC wussification of a seemingly growing proportion of the general public which tends to create problems out of nothing. LE has always dealt with society's problems and in the vast majority of cases quite effectively.  The problem here is the additional problems LE faces daily due to people being easily offended by X, Y and Z and thinking if they cry loud and long enough they'll get their way. LE does not need the distraction of PC crybaby BS with the already difficult job they do.

 

Cops as you say, have always been treated a different way, but their job just gets more difficult as time progresses but society regresses in certain ways. Law enforcement sure ain't the job for individuals with a weak constitution or thin skin. Society sure does not need to make their lives more difficult along the way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Back many years ago a partner of mine went through a McD's drive through and got a hamburger. When he got it the thing just did not look right. Knowing some of the employees he did not eat the burger but took it to the crime lab. It was determined along with the ketchup was seminal fluid. Something like that did not make the news, but was taken care of internally. They got a new cook because the old one, well, had some jail time he needed taken care of.

[Smoken D]

3 hours ago, Dantankerous said:

 

 

Got double tapped.

 

[Pat Riot]

1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

A lot of them are imports to CA in the first place.  Or their fringe-left parents were imports. 

EXACTLY! In the 60’s and 70’s thousands of people moved to California from New York and New England bringing their special political attitudes with them. Even though California has always been heavily Democrat until the mid 80’s and later the Dems were fairly moderate except in certain small enclaves in the state, San Francisco being the main one. 

 

On another note, in Oregon I got into a discussion with a group of people at work from Oregon and Washington. There was complaining about the political influence of Californians that had moved there and ruined their states. After some Q&A I determined that not one person there had ever met anyone (but me...the only conservative in the room) from California living in their states yet all of them cited whack-job leftists in their immediate families that had apparently been influenced by this evil influx of Californians...that they had never seen...or met...or even heard of being nearby...

 

 

Hey...it’s a beautiful day. I am going for a motorcycle ride.

[Subdeacon Joe]

14 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

It started long before him though.

One could argue it started with the '68 Convention in Chicago.  Or, go back to the Civil Rights marches a few years earlier.

[Utah Bob #35998]

I wonder what the Starbucks snowflake would do if these guys came in and the cops had been kicked out.

https://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/484299006-Video-shows-NOLA-cops-intense-gun-battle-with-robbery-suspects/

 

[Utah Bob #35998]

1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

One could argue it started with the '68 Convention in Chicago.  Or, go back to the Civil Rights marches a few years earlier.

https://www.policeone.com/evergreen/articles/8655705-15-things-70s-era-cops-can-teach-todays-LEOs/

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

5 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

https://www.policeone.com/evergreen/articles/8655705-15-things-70s-era-cops-can-teach-todays-LEOs/

 

 

Thanks Bob.  That article somewhat supports my '68 Chicago Convention timeline.  It's a little bit difficult to find a single incident to point to and say "This is when it started. "

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

5 hours ago, Dantankerous said:

Pat,

 

Are you saying leftists are parasites?

 

I'd agree 100%.

 

What a terrible comparison.  Real parasites deserve better than that.

[Blackwater 53393]

I live outside of Nashville, TN.  I can honestly say that I've met or encountered SEVERAL California transplants who have moved here.  Some as recently as in the last six months, and some who moved here several years ago.  There is a definite difference in those people.  The newer arrivals seem to be the ones who want to change everything and make it like where they came from.  They moved out because of the expense and the environment and then they expect the same "services" and the same "facilities" that they were paying those exorbitant taxes and living costs in order to support.  They have no clue that the locals have learned to live without those things, QUITE HAPPILY, and don't want them.  Nonetheless, these newbies insist and whine and caterwaul until these conditions become the norm.  The locals who don't like it move out of town as it becomes a $#!t#0[E and seek residence in the outlying areas.

 

The folks that moved here ten, fifteen, twenty years ago tried to warn the rest of us that this would happen!!  Many of us listened and the smaller "bedroom communities" have grown significantly, assimilating the urban flight and growing  population.  These are now the conservative strongholds that strive politically to offset the liberal infection influx that occurs when beautiful conditions and excellent employment break out in a city. Most of those early migrants moved with the fleeing natives.  They're the ones who fled California to get away from the high costs, but they were also running from that liberal community mindset!! 

 

 

[Utah Bob #35998]

2 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Thanks Bob.  That article somewhat supports my '68 Chicago Convention timeline.  It's a little bit difficult to find a single incident to point to and say "This is when it started. "

I think we can agree that the general feeling of defiance to “The Man” was around the mid 60s. The Vietnam war and a post- WWII generation that had grown up somewhat coddled and without privation was responsible for a misguided sense of rebellion. That’s when we began to see Chairman Mao and Che Guevara T-shirts (although wearing a Che t-shirt in Miami where I grew up would get your butt kicked) This along with the “if it feels good, do it” philosophy, free love, and Timothy Leary set the stage for a general distrust for authority, which morphed into hatred and violence.

[Subdeacon Joe]

41 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

I think we can agree that the general feeling of defiance to “The Man” was around the mid 60s. The Vietnam war and a post- WWII generation that had grown up somewhat coddled and without privation was responsible for a misguided sense of rebellion. That’s when we began to see Chairman Mao and Che Guevara T-shirts (although wearing a Che t-shirt in Miami where I grew up would get your butt kicked) This along with the “if it feels good, do it” philosophy, free love, and Timothy Leary set the stage for a general distrust for authority, which morphed into hatred and violence.

 

Good thumbnail of it, Bob.  

A slight change of subject.  I was just out taking April for her mid-afternoon constitutional.  Met up with one of the older guys in the park.  Re-introduced ourselves - we did recall the names of each others dogs.   I told him my name, he responded with, "Norm.  Or 'The Colonel."  I naturally asked what branch, "Army.  82nd Airborne."  Said he was in Viet Nam as an advisor between '54 and '64.  

 

 

[Utah Bob #35998]

41 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Good thumbnail of it, Bob.  

A slight change of subject.  I was just out taking April for her mid-afternoon constitutional.  Met up with one of the older guys in the park.  Re-introduced ourselves - we did recall the names of each others dogs.   I told him my name, he responded with, "Norm.  Or 'The Colonel."  I naturally asked what branch, "Army.  82nd Airborne."  Said he was in Viet Nam as an advisor between '54 and '64.  

 

 

“The Colonel! Seriously?

82nd didn't actually have advisors as far as I’m aware. Although he might have come from the 82nd.  Since 1950, they were under MAAG, Military Assistance Advisory Group, or later MACV. But things weren’t always the way they were supposed to be. But color me skeptical without more info.

 

As I am now an Official Kentucky Colonel, I think I’ll go by the title as well.

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

1 minute ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

“The Colonel! Seriously?

82nd didn't actually have advisors as far as I’m aware.

 

 

Yeah, he said that.  He might have used "advisor" as a general catch all that he figured a civilian would understand.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Well-3 days or so later they offer up this.......

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/07/07/barista-asked-police-leave-because-guest-felt-uncomfortable-starbucks-has-apologized/?utm_term=.665b532af75f

 

IMHO-To little-to late......

OLG

[MizPete]

23 hours ago, Bad Bascomb, SASS # 47,494 said:

I suspect the snowflake who felt uneasy because of LEO presence could have had outstanding warrants. 

or plans.  This is kinda my take on the situation.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

13 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

I don't think anyone is saying that it is corporate policy, or even a corporate-wide anti-cop culture.  But there have been a half dozen incidents like this since 2017 that have made national news. Which likely means that there have been several score such things in that time.

The complaint, in my opinion is several fold. First the obvious, one person whines about being offended because he or she can see police and the employee, rather than saying the customer should move, or look in another direction, tells the 5 or 6 officers to move or to leave. Second, I think we all remember this kerfluffle   when two guys who had not bought anything asked to use the restroom, and, per policy, were denied access, then had to be removed by police.  But no one raised a fuss when an on duty officer was refused use of the restroom and quietly left while an employee continued to loudly proclaim that he should know that the restroom is only for paying customers.  

 

Third, Starbucks shut down for a day for "Racial Sensitivity Training" after the black guys were refused use of the restroom.  Where was the "Occupational Sensitivity Training" when the officer was yelled at?

It is the corporate double standard that grates on people, I think.  Along with Starbucks corporate claiming there is no bias in their organization while clearly discriminating against certain types of people.  There was the incident a few months ago in Palo Alto, CA in which one customer loudly and aggressively insulted another for having the audacity to be wearing a MAGA hat in her presence (although a man wearing any hat indoors is somewhat nekulturny - military and LEO exceptions apply), and the staff of Starbucks did nothing to stop it.

 

 

A lot of them are imports to CA in the first place.  Or their fringe-left parents were imports.  While CA for the past two decades has become a left-radical state (and has had a Democrat controlled legislature since 1959, save for one session where the GOP held both houses by slim margines), before that it had be fairly moderate, more often supporting the GOP presidential candidate than the DNC candidate.  

Only about one person in eleven in California were born there.

[Subdeacon Joe]

8 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

Only about one person in eleven in California were born there.

 

That is a very old bit of information, maybe late 1940s.  About 10 years ago native born Californians became the majority.

[Rye Miles #13621]

22 hours ago, Henry T Harrison said:

I don’t know why any police officer would even be in a Starbucks 

There's a police dept. here that is right across the street from a Starbucks and a lot of the officers go in there and get treated respectfully and taken care of. Why not?

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

That statistic has gotten a bit muddled over the years.

 

It comes from a report back in the year 2000 that stated that, as of that time, only one out of eleven adults in California was a native.  

 

When I read that I conducted my own (VERY un-scientific) straw poll.  Surprisingly, I got similar results.  

 

 

 

 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

3 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

That is a very old bit of information, maybe late 1940s.  About 10 years ago native born Californians became the majority.

I left there just over four years ago and, as far as I know, it was still true then if the illegals having kids there were taken out of the mix.  

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

17 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Well-3 days or so later they offer up this.......

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/07/07/barista-asked-police-leave-because-guest-felt-uncomfortable-starbucks-has-apologized/?utm_term=.665b532af75f

 

IMHO-To little-to late......

OLG

IMO, at least they apologized, which is better than a corporate policy of no guns on the premises even when carried by LEOs.

 

Remember the officers that were shot by a customer in Panera, a company that has a corporate anti-gun policy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/armed-suspect-in-panera-shoots-two-maryland-officers/2016/02/10/75bb1648-d027-11e5-b2bc-988409ee911b_story.html?utm_term=.c6de9267990d

 

I wrote them to protest this policy and received the following response.

"I'm very sorry to hear you disagree with our policy. Within our company, we strive to create Panera Warmth, which means, among other things, creating bakery-cafe environments where customers and associates feel comfortable. Panera Bread respects the rights of gun owners, but we do believe asking that customers not bring their firearms inside our bakery-cafes is consistent with the bakery-café environment we are attempting to create ."

 

I will boycott Panera.

 

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

2 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

I left there just over four years ago and, as far as I know, it was still true then if the illegals having kids there were taken out of the mix.  

 

The problem with that number is that I was hearing it back in the mid-70s.  I have trouble believing that it hasn't changed since then. 

[Utah Bob #35998]

On 7/7/2019 at 8:39 AM, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I get what you’re saying Joe, but the OP was about this one store in AZ. There’s now a Dump Starbucks meme going around and I don’t think it’s fair to the many Starbucks that don’t operate like this. That was my only point.

It’s the current American tendency to overreact to everything.

Thanks to the Interweb.

[Charles B. Gatewood SASS #48517]

23 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

I live outside of Nashville, TN.  I can honestly say that I've met or encountered SEVERAL California transplants who have moved here.  Some as recently as in the last six months, and some who moved here several years ago.  There is a definite difference in those people.  The newer arrivals seem to be the ones who want to change everything and make it like where they came from.  They moved out because of the expense and the environment and then they expect the same "services" and the same "facilities" that they were paying those exorbitant taxes and living costs in order to support.  They have no clue that the locals have learned to live without those things, QUITE HAPPILY, and don't want them.  Nonetheless, these newbies insist and whine and caterwaul until these conditions become the norm.  The locals who don't like it move out of town as it becomes a $#!t#0[E and seek residence in the outlying areas.

 

The folks that moved here ten, fifteen, twenty years ago tried to warn the rest of us that this would happen!!  Many of us listened and the smaller "bedroom communities" have grown significantly, assimilating the urban flight and growing  population.  These are now the conservative strongholds that strive politically to offset the liberal infection influx that occurs when beautiful conditions and excellent employment break out in a city. Most of those early migrants moved with the fleeing natives.  They're the ones who fled California to get away from the high costs, but they were also running from that liberal community mindset!! 

 

 

The same for Colorado. I knew a realtor who was showing homes to a couple from CA. In the process of showing a house she talked about the lifestyle and activities in the state when the man stated. "We'll fix that once we get enough people here who know how to vote."

 

CBG

[Blackwater 53393]

2 hours ago, Charles B. Gatewood SASS #48517 said:

The same for Colorado. I knew a realtor who was showing homes to a couple from CA. In the process of showing a house she talked about the lifestyle and activities in the state when the man stated. "We'll fix that once we get enough people here who know how to vote."

 

CBG

 

Yeah!!  We've told more than one, out here in the country, that they are plenty welcome.  We also explain, very firmly, that we do things differently here and they'd best get used to it or they should plan to find someplace else to migrate!  Really good neighbors can be downright un-neighborly when angered!!

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

SB apologizes 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/07/business/starbucks-tempe-police.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_190708?campaign_id=2&instance_id=10737&segment_id=15008&user_id=2a74a0088d1fb46e0d0616331ce77dbb&regi_id=304464310708

[Utah Bob #35998]

4 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

 

Yeah!!  We've told more than one, out here in the country, that they are plenty welcome.  We also explain, very firmly, that we do things differently here and they'd best get used to it or they should plan to find someplace else to migrate!  Really good neighbors can be downright un-neighborly when angered!!

http://montezumacounty.org/web/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/codeofthewest.pdf

[Subdeacon Joe]

1 hour ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

SB apologizes 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/07/business/starbucks-tempe-police.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_190708?campaign_id=2&instance_id=10737&segment_id=15008&user_id=2a74a0088d1fb46e0d0616331ce77dbb&regi_id=304464310708

 

When will Starbucks close for sensitivity training?

[Hashknife Cowboy]

They have been added top the list of those companies and businesses that I will not support.

[Pat Riot]

21 hours ago, Charles B. Gatewood SASS #48517 said:

The same for Colorado. I knew a realtor who was showing homes to a couple from CA. In the process of showing a house she talked about the lifestyle and activities in the state when the man stated. "We'll fix that once we get enough people here who know how to vote."

 

CBG

 

I encountered this exact same thing in North Carolina from some folks that moved to Charlotte from Massachusetts. They were complaining about restaurants having "Smoking Areas" indoors. This was 2005. In 2007 or 2008 Smoking was banned in restaurants in NC. I guess they got enough people moved in...