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Sandhill Ruston SASS #31383

Lever Lock

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At HOW, Badger introduced the new Lever Lock. Just wondering if any one that purchased one has installed it and have you had the opportunity to try it out. 

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Where can I see this new lever lock?

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3 hours ago, Rancho Roy said:

Where can I see this new lever lock?

I am looking for the brochure and will post it when I find it.  Everyone received one in their documents at HOW.

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Here is a picture of the brochure.  I have no affiliation with lever lock or the owners just trying to help out by posting pic.

IMG_20190702_061834_01.jpg

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So how do you eject live rounds if you want to empty the rifle without firing?  Looks like you must drop the hammer to open the action

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1 minute ago, Medicine Creek Johnny said:

So how do you eject live rounds if you want to empty the rifle without firing?  Looks like you must drop the hammer to open the action

Great question, but watching the video it looks like you can fix it to work off the hammer instead of the trigger; though I'm not sure. I'm gonna get one just out of curiosity though.

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Posted (edited)

We suggest that you take the magazine tube plug out to empty the rifle, but you can also lower the hammer on each live round and eject them that way. You can set up the lever lock to function off of the hammer or off of the trigger, either or both.

Edited by Jinglebobgerri
Added more words

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10 hours ago, Jinglebobgerri said:

We suggest that you take the magazine tube plug out to empty the rifle, but you can also lower the hammer on each live round and eject them that way. You can set up the lever lock to function off of the hammer or off of the trigger, either or both.

So the only way to remove a live round from the chamber is to lower the hammer on it or pull the trigger?  Not something I wanna do

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Why isn't this post in the SASS Merchant Corner or the Classifieds?

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Marshall...  I'm not selling or buying anything. I posted wanting information as to anyone installing and using the Lever Lock.  Other inquiring minds want to know what the item was and others passed on the details of what it is and where to get it. I'm still waiting for the first hand information I requested.

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Smokestack, by SASS approved, here is the process that we followed: First we filled out the SASS firearm modification consideration application form along with a written description of the new part with illustrations and sent in an email to Hipshot on March 21, 2017. Hipshot had "Roxy" forward it to the ROC. with the comment that at "first blush this appears to be ok". 

On April 25, 2017, we received the response from Hipshot that stated" The consensus of the RO committee was that it is OK".

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Jinglebobgerri said:

Smokestack, by SASS approved, here is the process that we followed: First we filled out the SASS firearm modification consideration application form along with a written description of the new part with illustrations and sent in an email to Hipshot on March 21, 2017. Hipshot had "Roxy" forward it to the ROC. with the comment that at "first blush this appears to be ok". 

On April 25, 2017, we received the response from Hipshot that stated" The consensus of the RO committee was that it is OK".

 

 

 

I don't understand-:huh:

Why did you have to apply for SASS approval, when this is clearly an internal mod that is not visible from the outside?

PLZ confirm-You removed the left side toggle only for clarity of function in the video.

Respectfully,

OLG

 

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This certainly seems to change the "manual of arms" for a toggle rifle enough to cause folks other than the owner a problem if they have to operate or clear the gun.

And then, when they try to FORCE the lever to get it to open, what parts give first?

 

Good luck, GJ

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36 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 

I don't understand-:huh:

Why did you have to apply for SASS approval, when this is clearly an internal mod that is not visible from the outside?

PLZ confirm-You removed the left side toggle only for clarity of function in the video.

Respectfully,

OLG

 

Internal modifications not referenced here that cannot be seen while the firearm is at rest (action closed) are allowed provided they do not affect the external operation or directly conflict with one of the modifications listed here.   SHB pg 33

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1 minute ago, Beartrap SASS#57175 said:

Internal modifications not referenced here that cannot be seen while the firearm is at rest (action closed) are allowed provided they do not affect the external operation or directly conflict with one of the modifications listed here.   SHB pg 33

Thank you for the additional information.

OLG

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16 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

This certainly seems to change the "manual of arms" for a toggle rifle enough to cause folks other than the owner a problem if they have to operate or clear the gun.

And then, when they try to FORCE the lever to get it to open, what parts give first?

 

Good luck, GJ

Agreed-Like when you cycle the action several times to show 'clear' at the unloading table. :huh:

OLG

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12 hours ago, Sandhill Ruston SASS #31383 said:

Marshall...  I'm not selling or buying anything. I posted wanting information as to anyone installing and using the Lever Lock.  Other inquiring minds want to know what the item was and others passed on the details of what it is and where to get it. I'm still waiting for the first hand information I requested.

 

Ahh!  Sorry, Sandhill.  My mistake.  I thought you were selling these.

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I was TO'ing for a shooter at Hell On Wheels and during the stage his rifle closed when he set it down after shooting it. When he finished the stage and before he picked it up I asked him to open the lever so I could confirm it was empty. He tried to lever it and then said he had a lever lock and pulled the trigger before I could react. It startled me when he did it.

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7 minutes ago, Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L said:

I was TO'ing for a shooter at Hell On Wheels and during the stage his rifle closed when he set it down after shooting it. When he finished the stage and before he picked it up I asked him to open the lever so I could confirm it was empty. He tried to lever it and then said he had a lever lock and pulled the trigger before I could react. It startled me when he did it.

What if there had been a live round in it with no way to release the lock?

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Instead of a solution looking for a problem, this one looks like . . . well, just a problem looking for a buyer.

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L said:

I was TO'ing for a shooter at Hell On Wheels and during the stage his rifle closed when he set it down after shooting it. When he finished the stage and before he picked it up I asked him to open the lever so I could confirm it was empty. He tried to lever it and then said he had a lever lock and pulled the trigger before I could react. It startled me when he did it.

Thank you for that "heads up",  so we know how these things function!  

Edited by McCandless

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Choices choices.

 

Jack out the occasional round 

 

OR

 

Earn a MDQ because there is no safe way to open a closed action except to pull the trigger.

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Posted (edited)
Quote

I was TO'ing for a shooter at Hell On Wheels and during the stage his rifle closed when he set it down after shooting it. When he finished the stage and before he picked it up I asked him to open the lever so I could confirm it was empty. He tried to lever it and then said he had a lever lock and pulled the trigger before I could react. It startled me when he did it.

Quote

 

 

Am I missing something, or is this close enough to a violation of our current decocking rules that the shooter should have been penalized for decocking without getting permission from the TO to do so!

 

Good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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21 hours ago, Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L said:

I was TO'ing for a shooter at Hell On Wheels and during the stage his rifle closed when he set it down after shooting it. When he finished the stage and before he picked it up I asked him to open the lever so I could confirm it was empty. He tried to lever it and then said he had a lever lock and pulled the trigger before I could react. It startled me when he did it.

 

10 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

Am I missing something, or is this close enough to a violation of our current decocking rules that the shooter should have been penalized for decocking without getting permission from the TO to do so!

 

Good luck, GJ

According to the OP, the shooter did not decock the rifle, but pulled the trigger and dropped the hammer.

 

Even if he did decock it, his action does not meet the definition in order to be penalized as it was not done so to avoid penalty of being cocked at the wrong time, position or location.

 

SHB pg 15

Quote

No firearm may be de-cocked on the firing line to avoid a penalty if cocked at the
wrong time, position or location once a round has gone downrange. Once a
revolver is cocked, the round must be expended (shot). However, if a round has
not gone downrange, and under the direction and supervision of the
CRO/TO, the revolver may be decocked. This requires a positive
indication/acknowledgement from the TO for the shooter to do so. (See also
“Double Jeopardy” avoidance in Safety & Handing Conventions – All Firearms)

  

 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/7/2019 at 6:31 PM, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

Am I missing something, or is this close enough to a violation of our current decocking rules that the shooter should have been penalized for decocking without getting permission from the TO to do so!

 

Good luck, GJ

 

Decocking mid-stage in order to open the lever and EJECT an extra round (e.g. loaded 10 for a 9-round rifle string) WOULD fall under the prohibition 

"...to avoid a penalty if cocked at the wrong time, position or location once a round has gone downrange."

SHB p.15

"De-cocking a revolver, rifle, or hammered shotgun without positive direction to do so from the CRO/TO."

SHB p.23 - Stage Disqualifications

 

There is NO PROVISION to allow decocking in that situation; even "under the direction and supervision of CRO/TO".

The possible penalties to be avoided are:
PROCEDURAL for firing more rounds than required for the stage engagement (if the round is fired instead of ejected).

SDQ for leaving an unfired round in the chamber of a long gun.

MSV for leaving an unfired round in the action of a long gun.

 

Just a few things to consider.

 

 

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
add reference
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It would require an external modification approval; but it seems to me that a simple small tab/ pin jutting outward 90 degrees from the L shaped lock piece and protruding thru a slot in the left side plate could be used to manually unlock the action. 

With the minimal amount of movement required; a "slot" might be overkill, a simple oversized hole and protruding pin might suffice.

This would allow the shooter to move the tab/ pin and unlock the action for the safe unloading/ show clear without decocking or requiring magazine plug removal.

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Posted (edited)

If you think about how shotguns unlock the slide lock (Model 97 or 12), Browning and Johnson both knew at the dawn of the 20th century that an action lock needs some way to disengage it from the outside if you want to open the action without having to drop the hammer.

 

Good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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