loading a sixth round in a pistol

[Abdiver1]

Shooter has gone around at least once but only four of the five rounds fire, in his second pistol.   Shooter then loads a sixth round in the pistol and goes around till a round fires;  more than likely the one just loaded but there is no guarantee of that.   What is the next action to be taken?  1) Shooter holsters and goes to the unloading table.   The issue is the un-fired round in the pistol.   If the un-fired round is under the hammer then what is the call?  Worse yet,  there is the sixth round under the hammer because the previous non-firing fifth round finally fires.   What if the sixth round did fire and the un-fired round is not under the hammer?  2) Shooter declares the gun 'broke' and lays on the table.   By doing that has the shooter removed any safety call regarding where the un-fired round is found in his desire for a clean match.

 

Smart Asterisk

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

I do not know the call if any for one unfired round in the pistol at the unloading table.  But there is no worry of an unfired round under the hammer, because the last round fired.  The unfired round is somewhere other than under the hammer, if he holstered after firing as you stated.
 

So, I'm assuming this is a hypothetical scenario you would like to pursue next time you have a dud and are trying for a clean match, yes?

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

 

Unfired Round:

Quote

Leaving unfired rounds in a revolver is a Miss penalty. However, if a live round is under the hammer, a Stage Disqualification penalty is assessed.

 

Shooter Handbook, page 14

 

An unfired round found in revolver at the unloading table, as long as it is NOT in the firing position (called under the hammer) - is a no call for the revolver's condition.  But if that unfired round was one of the rounds that stage called to be fired at targets, then the call is a Miss for the unfired round.   Loading one extra live round is allowed, rather than attempting to fire what may have been a dud round.  Which then makes the "dud" unfired round a no call again.

 

An unfired round left in revolver AND found under the hammer at the unloading table - is a Stage Disqualification penalty.   (Unloading table officer needs to watch the shooter closely to ensure he has not indexed the cylinder away from a live round.)

 

And, unless the shooter has continued to "click around" after shooting the last live round, there is no chance that the round under the hammer is live.  It just fired!

 

 

Broken Gun Declaration:

You can declare a broken (malfunctioning) gun if you get tired of trying to fire an unfired round in the revolver.   Declaring a broken gun just to get out of trying to find a live round that you have lost track of - is rather poor sportsmanship.  But because we don't judge on intent, just on actions, it probably will be allowed to be treated as a broken gun.  

 

Something that WOULD be disallowed, would be an obvious attempt to avoid having to reholster a pistol when it worked just fine at the firing line.  As a TO, if a shooter tried to do that, he  would be immediately told - "REHOLSTER - You are required to return your revolver to leather at the end of the revolver shooting string."   How would the TO know to call that?   If shooter ripped off five good shots, and yelled "Malfunction" or "Broke Gun" as he throws down the revolver and moves to his next type of gun.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

[Ace_of_Hearts]

9 hours ago, Abdiver1 said:

Shooter has gone around at least once but only four of the five rounds fire, in his second pistol.   Shooter then loads a sixth round in the pistol and goes around till a round fires;  more than likely the one just loaded but there is no guarantee of that.   What is the next action to be taken?  1) Shooter holsters and goes to the unloading table.  This would be the case if it were the second pistol and the pistols were the last guns to be used on the stage.  The issue is the un-fired round in the pistol.   If the un-fired round is under the hammer then what is the call?  The unfired round is not under the hammer. You just stated that the shooter went around until a round fired. Conclusion - There is an empty round under the hammer. Worse yet,  there is the sixth round under the hammer because the previous non-firing fifth round finally fires.   What if the sixth round did fire and the un-fired round is not under the hammer?  2) Shooter declares the gun 'broke' and lays on the table.   By doing that has the shooter removed any safety call regarding where the un-fired round is found in his desire for a clean match. The shooter completed the stage. The unfired/defective round is not a concern at this point. The gun is not malfunctioning therefore no need to ground the gun.

 

Smart Asterisk

As a final point. As a TO, I would have the shooter unload the pistol with the defective round on the firing line under my supervision at the end of the stage.

 

[Warden Callaway]

Thinking...  If a shooter added one round in chamber 6, then fired it in what ever method, and never recocked the gun, the the hammer would be down on and fired round. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

Why would anyone do that? A clean shoot is that important? Unbelievable!!!

[Flying W Ramrod]

As Warden Callaway said, the hammer is down on the last expended round, assuming the shooter did not index after that shot.
Other than that, declare a malfunction, set the revolver on a prop, and handle it as loaded, once the stage is over.

Rye Miles, yes. To some, a clean match is that important.

[Rye Miles #13621]

10 minutes ago, Flying W Ramrod said:

As Warden Callaway said, the hammer is down on the last expended round, assuming the shooter did not index after that shot.
Other than that, declare a malfunction, set the revolver on a prop, and handle it as loaded, once the stage is over.

Rye Miles, yes. To some, a clean match is that important.

I can't for the life of me figure out why a clean match is so important but to each his own! I always try for a clean match but not to this extent!

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I can't for the life of me figure out why a clean match is so important but to each his own! I always try for a clean match but not to this extent!

We do a lot of on the clock reloads out here. When given the choice between pistol reload and rifle reload, I choose the pistol. When done correctly it can be just as fast as a rifle reload and it’s much more fun. It’s how I got my alias no less. There are many people playing this game and they all have their own reasons. There’s aren’t any more right or wrong than yours or mine. So we look down on someone that chooses to play it differently than you?

[Rye Miles #13621]

12 minutes ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

We do a lot of on the clock reloads out here. When given the choice between pistol reload and rifle reload, I choose the pistol. When done correctly it can be just as fast as a rifle reload and it’s much more fun. It’s how I got my alias no less. There are many people playing this game and they all have their own reasons. There’s aren’t any more right or wrong than yours or mine. So we look down on someone that chooses to play it differently than you?

I don’t look down on anyone, I just can’t understand why anyone would do what was explained in the OP. In 20 years I’ve never seen anyone do that! Like I said to each his own which you apparently ignored!

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I can't for the life of me figure out why a clean match is so important but to each his own! I always try for a clean match but not to this extent!

 

Because for some shooters who have no chance of ever finishing in the top 3, shooting a clean match is the only realistic goal they have for success.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

3 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

Because for some shooters who have no chance of ever finishing in the top 3, shooting a clean match is the only realistic goal they have for success.

I would be one of the "some shooters" club, especially if I would win one of those white buffalo (I think that is what they are) pins given out at EOT.

 

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

Heck, I've seen a pard have a high primer that locked up his pistol. He pulled the base pin, popped out the cylinder, dumped the brass, loaded the one or two shots he needed, then finished the stage.

 

All to end up with a clean match...

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I don’t look down on anyone, I just can’t understand why anyone would do what was explained in the OP. In 20 years I’ve never seen anyone do that! Like I said to each his own which you apparently ignored!

20 years and you’ve never seen anyone reload a pistol in order to stay clean? Maybe you need to get out more. 

[Yul Lose]

Anymore my goal is a clean match and if a pistol round failed to fire and stood in the way of a clean match I’d load another to save a clean match. I’d do the same if I jacked a round out of the rifle or a round didn’t fire.

[Blackwater 53393]

5 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Why would anyone do that? A clean shoot is that important? Unbelievable!!!

 

I shot Frontiersman for many years. On three separate occasions, I have disassembled a pistol to clear a busted cap that jammed the action, reassembled the gun and continued, completing the stage and as a result, completed a clean match.

 

The first time, it WAS that important to complete a clean match!!

 

The other times, I did it just because I could!!  

 

I dunno!!  It made ME happy!!

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

43 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

Anymore my goal is a clean match and if a pistol round failed to fire and stood in the way of a clean match I’d load another to save a clean match. I’d do the same if I jacked a round out of the rifle or a round didn’t fire.

Right? How many times have we all seen someone jack a round from the rifle and then try to reload it, taking much longer than 5 second? Nobody ever questions someone doing that to stay clean, but for some reason it's crazy to do the same with a pistol?

[Griff]

2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I don’t look down on anyone, I just can’t understand why anyone would do what was explained in the OP. In 20 years I’ve never seen anyone do that! Like I said to each his own which you apparently ignored!

Last guns of last stage of last day of multi-day match, I'm clean so far, even if I'm 9xth of 100 shooters, I kinda want that clean match pin!  Afterall, didn't the MD have them made to be EARNED!!!  

[Kingsley]

Longer than 5 sec for rifle reload, person needs to practice or jack many rounds.  My rifle can be reloaded in under 1.5 sec.  Jack enough rounds and you get very proficient with it.

 

cardboard

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

20 years and you’ve never seen anyone reload a pistol in order to stay clean? Maybe you need to get out more. 

I said I've never seen a person reload a pistol that had a round not go off and reload. The shooters usually grounds the gun and takes the miss. I go to 3 or 4 shoots a month for 20 years, how much more should I get out? 

[Kirk James]

in my nine years of SASS, I have only seen it done once.  I have attended nine EOT's and nine Winter Ranges and try and shoot at least 2 monthly matches each month.  Not saying it is the wrong thing to do.  To each their own.  Different things are important to different people.  Have a blast and enjoy SASS!!!!!

[Null N. Void]

I saw it done once to save a clean match.  

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I said I've never seen a person reload a pistol that had a round not go off and reload. The shooters usually grounds the gun and takes the miss. I go to 3 or 4 shoots a month for 20 years, how much more should I get out? 

It's not about how much you should get out, but rather to where you should go. Come out west and join us for a shoot. In fact, I promise you if you shoot with me I will purposefully load a dud and reload a pistol round on the clock just so that you can say you have seen it. I, however, can't promise to shoot the match clean. That's a pretty tall order for me.

[Chert Rock Chuck]

5 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

Because for some shooters who have no chance of ever finishing in the top 3, shooting a clean match is the only realistic goal they have for success.

I resemble that remark!

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

3 hours ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

Right? How many times have we all seen someone jack a round from the rifle and then try to reload it, taking much longer than 5 second? Nobody ever questions someone doing that to stay clean, but for some reason it's crazy to do the same with a pistol?

Yep, we used to do it in matches and practice it from LH cds….open loading gate, load one, four clicks (click, click, click, click) hammer back-Bang!! Easy to do under 5 seconds Good Luck

[Rye Miles #13621]

31 minutes ago, Jefro, SASS#69420 said:

Yep, we used to do it in matches and practice it from LH cds….open loading gate, load one, four clicks (click, click, click, click) hammer back-Bang!! Easy to do under 5 seconds Good Luck

We do that occasionally but the OP was about a round not going off and someone reloading one. I can’t remember anyone doing that in any of the shoots I’ve been, of course I’m only on one posse at a time!!!

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

I'm trying to remember the last time I had a pistol round fail to fire...

[Dusty Devil Dale]

5 hours ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

How many times have we all seen someone jack a round from the rifle and then try to reload it, taking much longer than 5 second?

Seconds count. 

5 would be a long rifle reload.  Most folks practice reloading to be able to do it in 2-1/2 or 3.  Thats better than getting a miss, and on an otherwise clean run, even a 7 or 8 sec reload might be worth it to me.   

  

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

3 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Seconds count. 

5 would be a long rifle reload.  Most folks practice reloading to be able to do it in 2-1/2 or 3.  Thats better than getting a miss, and on an otherwise clean run, even a 7 or 8 sec reload might be worth it to me.   

  

I know how long it's supposed to take, but how many times have you seen someone jack a round, lever and pull the trigger on nothing, maybe reach for the belt or maybe start to set the gun down amongst the yells for one more, then fumble with getting the round out of the belt, maybe forget to close the lever while at it, then finally get it all together in order to pull the trigger? I'd say there is one of those for every perfectly reloaded under three seconds. Most seem to be somewhere in the middle.

[Tyrel Cody]

1 minute ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

I know how long it's supposed to take, but how many times have you seen someone jack a round, lever and pull the trigger on nothing, maybe reach for the belt or maybe start to set the gun down amongst the yells for one more, then fumble with getting the round out of the belt, maybe forget to close the lever while at it, then finally get it all together in order to pull the trigger? I'd say there is one of those for every perfectly reloaded under three seconds. Most seem to be somewhere in the middle.

 

Then there are dummies that grab a shotshell instead of a 44-40 and try to load that...

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

I remember once I was shooting my New Model 3 chambered for .38 S+W.   I was using some recently obtained, but old, factory black powder rounds.  On the first stage, 2 of the 5 rounds did not go boom.   I broke the thing open, loaded 2 more and finished the stage clean.   Switched to some ammo I made myself for the rest of match, but I did loose the clean a couple of stages later, but I was happy I'd been able to keep it going for as long as I did.

[Yul Lose]

1 hour ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

Then there are dummies that grab a shotshell instead of a 44-40 and try to load that...

Who you callin dummy, Willis???.

[Crusty]

I’ll never be fast, so I try to shot clean!

[Tyrel Cody]

1 hour ago, Yul Lose said:

Who you callin dummy, Willis???.

 

Well Arnold, you if you've done that 

 

Otherwise me, at a state match no less 

[Yul Lose]

7 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

Well Arnold, you if you've done that 

 

Otherwise me, at a state match no less 

Yeah me too, but not at a state match.