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Disabled participant accommodations


oak creek martin

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 I have been around a few different competitive shooting disciplines. And have noticed that they make accommodations for disabled or handicapped participants.  What are the SASS rules in this situation. If you had someone in a wheelchair. Would they have to propel the wheelchair on their own power? What if you had  participant with an amputation. Let’s say you lost a arm how would you shoot rifle?

Would  The rifle be replaced by two additional pistols  and the competitor required to shoot at the rifle targets ?

I know this may be the first time this question has been pondered. But I would think with a long history of sass competition that somehow this has come up before. I know all of the folks in SASS are a great bunch of people and would be more than willing to help a shooter out in any situation that occurs.  Have there ever been categories at a world or national competition for shooters in this situation? 

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48 minutes ago, oak creek martin said:

 I have been around a few different competitive shooting disciplines. And have noticed that they make accommodations for disabled or handicapped participants.  What are the SASS rules in this situation. If you had someone in a wheelchair. Would they have to propel the wheelchair on their own power? What if you had  participant with an amputation. Let’s say you lost a arm how would you shoot rifle?

Would  The rifle be replaced by two additional pistols  and the competitor required to shoot at the rifle targets ?

I know this may be the first time this question has been pondered. But I would think with a long history of sass competition that somehow this has come up before. I know all of the folks in SASS are a great bunch of people and would be more than willing to help a shooter out in any situation that occurs.  Have there ever been categories at a world or national competition for shooters in this situation? 

We had a shooter with no left hand. The prostheses was in the shape of a hook. His rifle and shotgun were modified so that they had a ring at the front of the fore stock so he could hook on and have a secure hold.

Broken feet, replaced hips and knees requiring canes be used, wheelchairs can be self propelled or pushed around, boxes for short people (Tall people - Too bad :) ) are all accommodations that can and should be made. 

I even witnessed a guy with holsters on his crutches......

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The 3 years I went to Winter Range there was a shooter in a wheel chair. HIs friend pushed him to the various positions. Rifle and shotgun staged like anyone else. Pistols were staged instead of trying to holster them and then shoot them. He did well.

 

For awhile we had a shooter in a wheelchair at our monthly matches. Same thing he was helped by a friend and was a very safe shooter.

 

For me we should do whatever is needed to accommodate a shooter with some need. As long as they are having fun and being safe shoot away.

Ike

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I fully agree with everyone’s comments. I just wondered if there was some specific rules on what could and could not be done.

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2 hours ago, oak creek martin said:

some specific rules on what could and could not be done

 

None.  A match director can do ANYTHING that is desired and needed to help a shooter.  A TO is there to SAFELY ASSIST any shooter through a stage.  The only real limits are ensuring everyone's safety.  Don't create ADVANTAGES, just make participating enjoyable and safe.

 

I surely hope you do not need rules to be able to encourage and assist shooters at any level of skills.   TALK with the range officials who will need to assist in small ways.  Encourage bays and shooting positions that are as free of obstructions as possible, or constructively figure out a way for each shooter to enjoy their time on range.

 

Good luck, GJ

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At our monthly Escondido Bandidos Match we have a disabled Korean War hero that shoots with us. He uses a mobility scooter to move about the stage and is assisted at the loading table and firing line and then unloading table by numerous Cowboys and cowgirls and we are glad to have him there. It will be a sad day when he can no longer join us. Down at Dulzura there was a shooter in a wheelchair that shot with us quite often, he didn’t need a lot of help but when he needed it we all pitched in and helped him out. 

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One of the clubs I shoot with was started by dead eye Sinclair, he lost both legs, an eye, and one of his thumbs while serving in Vietnam. He would travel from stages in his motorized scooters and leaning against props but he was out there having fun while shooting FULL house black powder loads. Let the shooter tell you what they need and as long as it's safe let's dance!

Rafe

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3 hours ago, oak creek martin said:

I fully agree with everyone’s comments. I just wondered if there was some specific rules on what could and could not be done.

Yes there is…

 

1 Shoot down range only..

2 Do not break 170 degree rule..

3 Be safe and have fun…

 

I think that about covers it…

 

Texas Lizard

 

Update….Use black powder only so that can’t see what did wrong…

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SASS folks are the best. After my stroke last July, I still wanted to play cowboy, but using a cane it was tough to move guns safely. I had MDs for a couple smaller annuals I was going to cancel call me and tell me to come anyway and they would figure out a way for me to "play." They arranged a young man to be my cart caddy, moved my guns to the loading/unloading tables and the line, and I was grateful because I could not have played otherwise, and it got me out of my chair feeling sorry for myself. Still wobbly but still coming back, but the accommodations meant the world to me

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  • 1 month later...

{ used to go to a lot of multi day shoots till my knees gave out. Now I would have to use a mobility scooter. When some of the events hear that, you now have the plague. We have steps in scenarios, you have to shoot from doors, windows etc. is what you  hear from large shoots. I am NOT making any of this up. I wish SASS would make a definitive ruling on this.

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Just now, Leadnose Calhoun said:

{ used to go to a lot of multi day shoots till my knees gave out. Now I would have to use a mobility scooter. When some of the events hear that, you now have the plague. We have steps in scenarios, you have to shoot from doors, windows etc. is what you  hear from large shoots. I am NOT making any of this up. I wish SASS would make a definitive ruling on this.

I use a mobility scooter at some matches and no one says a thing. There were quite a few folks getting around at EOT on golf carts, quads, ATVs, etc. I seriously doubt that SASS or local ranges want to do battle with an ADA charge. I had an ADA suit filed against me in the business world and it was very costly. We have an older shooter at Escondido that uses a mobility scooter every month and he’s assisted as he needs it at the line with firearms and such. 

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On 6/27/2019 at 8:56 PM, oak creek martin said:

I fully agree with everyone’s comments. I just wondered if there was some specific rules on what could and could not be done.

Only one rule I know of. SAFETY SAFETY SAFETY HAVE FUN. Pretty much wraps it up.

We'll do what we can when we can to see the above rule strictly followed.

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On 6/27/2019 at 7:56 PM, oak creek martin said:

I fully agree with everyone’s comments. I just wondered if there was some specific rules on what could and could not be done.

    Yes, there are specific rules regarding what MUST be done as far as REASONABLE accommodations. However, I know of no written rules handed down from SASS in any handbook or RO class referring to the ADA (americans with disabilities act). It could be in the fine print somewhere though.

    Some items that would be non compliant with the ADA could be: slopes too steep, no handicap ramp to provide access to the stages, tables too low to allow forward access to pick up firearms, clear floor width, gravel stages, etc.

   There is a very legitimate reason the rules state "reasonable accommodation". 

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We (Johnson Creek Regulator's- Plymouth, MI) just ran what we termed a "Limited Mobility Match."  We've had several members of our club semi-retire because they are slowing down.  All of the stages were shot from stationary positions.  The movement seems to be what keeps them from coming out to shoot.  Two of the stages were shot from seated positions and shooting seated was an option for all stages.  The stages were challenging for all shooters with just two clean matches out of 27 shooters.  We took several precautions.  We did not allow drawing or holstering from seated positions.  If a shooter was going to attempt to retrieve a dropped round, they were required to restage their gun(s) first.  We asked shooters to let a posse member know if they needed help staging or moving firearms to the unloading table.  We did not have any wheelchair bound or amputees.  We had 5 or 6 shooters who had mobility issues that would not have otherwise shot.  Consensus among all attendees was that the match was fun and they would be back if we ran another Limited Mobility Match.  We had one criticism that we will take into account before running another Limited Mobility Match.  The recommendation was to make all shooting from standing position with the option of sitting.  This came from one of the less mobile shooters.  The reason being the difficulty in getting up from a sitting position.

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I have shot with two gentlemen in wheel chairs.  One staged his pistols and did everything else normal. Propelled himself and did great. 

 

 The other could stand but not walk.  After the first stage as his TO we worked out  a method.  He would shoot and when done I would pick him up and carry him to the next position.   To date that is the match I look back at as my favorite as a TO. Unfortunately the gentleman passed not long after.   I was honored to carry him once more at his funeral. 

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Since there are so many different impacts to injuries, age, etc, we have to maintain as much flexibility as possible. 

 

So it is very difficult to develop too specific of rules.

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I believe the only specific thing is related to external mods.  Previous post mentioned a shooter with a mod on the long gun to accommodate his prothesis hook.  That's an example of a legal external mod as it's necessary for maintaining  control of the firearm.  I've shot with several people over the years with various needs.  A one-size-fits-all set of hard and fast rules doesn't fit with the reality of the array of ranges we use.  Some are dead flat with nice concrete pads, some are built into a dirt cliff that turns into a waterfall if it starts to rain...……..  Some ranges just aren't accessible for  wheelchairs and the SASS club most likely is using the range, not in control of it.  On an accessible range, we ask the shooter what they need help with (like moving guns to loading table) or what they may need modified in stage instructions (like staging pistols every time) and then we do it.

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I can relate. I'm wheelchair bound (approx. 4 1/2 yrs.) and not that close to home anymore. But about every 2-3 mns. a friend comes to get me to shoot in my clubs monthly shoot. We have a ball, just like I did the first 20+ years. I shoot all three guns . the shotgun gives me a little problem but I work around it. Except when it's kind of muddy I wheel myself. I wear my holsters, my long guns are staged for me, I load and unload my own guns, get laughed at when I screw up ,,,,, just like normal. Before this happened to me, I've been to matches and have seen a few people with disabilities shoot ,"safely", and always thought "way ta' go".

Just sayin',

Isom

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I've placed plywood down for shooters with chairs, built special rests for rifles and pistols. And, I've pushed them as fast as I could, they weren't worried about getting hurt.

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Coming back after an accident I was using a walker, then a cane. The assistance offered to get me going again was truly awesome. I hope I am paying it back. Need help? Call me. I have a debt to pay.

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I guess I'm the designated cowboy with mobility issues around here.

I'm able to get out and shoot, but standing for too long or scampering from one shooting position to another is often a painful challenge.

So far I've been able to do it. My times are s l o w but I'm able to get through a match because my Pards let/make me sit between turns at bat and won't let me haul steel or props when it's time to pack up.

But, I still have fun!

Thanks Pards.

 

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Cutter's Raiders had a cowpoke that had lost a leg and was unsteady with down range movement.  TO walked with him on one side and a Spotter on the other side.

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As many of us are now getting older, issues arise. I've shot lots of clubs in Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, and EOT and all have made adjustments for those with limited mobility.  I have a bad knee which is why I had to move from a two story house to a one story house.  At my home club, Thunder River Renegades, all the guys are always ready to help me up and down whenever there are steps to or from a stage.  They hand my long guns up and carry or hand them to me at the unloading table.  I usually work the unloading table after I shoot since it allows me to sit on my stool and do my share of the posse duties.  We also allow more than one shooter that has trouble shooting pistols safely to just shoot an extra rifle in place of pistols.  Who cares about how long it takes to complete a stage or if you end up #32 out of 32 shooters as long as you are being safe, having fun, sending lead downrange, and being with friends? No one cares if you are the only one in your class, whatever you call your class which is why SASS is so great.

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1 hour ago, Lorelei Longshot, SASS #44256 Life said:

Who cares about how long it takes to complete a stage or if you end up #32 out of 32 shooters as long as you are being safe, having fun, sending lead downrange, and being with friends? No one cares if you are the only one in your class, whatever you call your class which is why SASS is so great.

 

Took me 7 years and the death of a great friend to understand this.

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On 6/28/2019 at 9:54 AM, StirrupTrouble said:

SASS folks are the best. After my stroke last July, I still wanted to play cowboy, but using a cane it was tough to move guns safely. I had MDs for a couple smaller annuals I was going to cancel call me and tell me to come anyway and they would figure out a way for me to "play." They arranged a young man to be my cart caddy, moved my guns to the loading/unloading tables and the line, and I was grateful because I could not have played otherwise, and it got me out of my chair feeling sorry for myself. Still wobbly but still coming back, but the accommodations meant the world to me

You did real good at Roundup! :D

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Morning Stirup Trouble, by the way it might be my turn this year.  Was being schedule for knee surgery before they did my shoulder but, injured my shoulder again 2x last week.  Now they are talking about me needing to use a mobility sling and deciding if it may be necessary to do major reconstructive surgery to my shoulder 1st.  I know I can shoot the pistols and I have figured out the SG, just not sure on the rifle; might have to stage it between rounds so I can cycle it then figure out the balance & aiming before the Roundup.  I participated at the last monthly before the 2nd injury and immobilization was brought up.  It was painful & slow but made it with some help.  I know if I want to participate everyone will jump in to help because that's how they are.  Hope you come to roundup this year, would be good to see & shoot with you again.

 

Charlie

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2 hours ago, Charlie T Waite said:

Morning Stirup Trouble, by the way it might be my turn this year.  Was being schedule for knee surgery before they did my shoulder but, injured my shoulder again 2x last week.  Now they are talking about me needing to use a mobility sling and deciding if it may be necessary to do major reconstructive surgery to my shoulder 1st.  I know I can shoot the pistols and I have figured out the SG, just not sure on the rifle; might have to stage it between rounds so I can cycle it then figure out the balance & aiming before the Roundup.  I participated at the last monthly before the 2nd injury and immobilization was brought up.  It was painful & slow but made it with some help.  I know if I want to participate everyone will jump in to help because that's how they are.  Hope you come to roundup this year, would be good to see & shoot with you again.

 

Charlie

Sorry you are facing all that. I can't wait to come up, and bringing a friend and his family this time

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1 hour ago, StirrupTrouble said:

Sorry you are facing all that. I can't wait to come up, and bringing a friend and his family this time

I'll be working registration so see you there.

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