Looking for some help with an Uberti '66

[4 Mile Drifter]

Let me start by saying I’m not much of a gunsmith when it comes to my rifles.  I was fortunate in Tennessee to have a great gunsmith associated with our club who was close by.  Out here in Western Washington it’s about a 4 hour round trip to get to a gunsmith who’s truly familiar with CAS guns.

 

I hadn’t been to a match in about 3 years until last month.  I was using reloaded ammo from a pard who I trust implicitly.  However, one bullet wasn’t seated as far into the brass as it should have been (I shoot 38’s).  It caused a jam in my Uberti ’66 carbine.  It took awhile but a couple of days after the match I finally figured how to get it unjammed.  However, in the process I took apart more than I knew how to put back correctly.  I made the 4 hour round trip to the gunsmith and he got everything back in place and working.

 

I was shooting a match Sunday (all factory fresh Remington ammo) and on the first 2 stages the rifle worked perfectly.  But on the 3rd stage when I levered the rifle and pulled the trigger there was no round to shoot.  I did it a second time thinking it was just something I did wrong and the carrier got the round up and I fired the first round.  From then on I pretty much had to lever the rifle 2 times to get a round in position to fire, but not every time, through the rest of the stages.

 

Before I make 2 more round trip to the gunsmith I was hoping y’all might have some suggestions of simple things I could check out.  One thought I had is that the magazine spring is just flat worn out and isn’t putting enough pressure on the rounds to push them back where the carrier picks them up.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Flash]

Make sure that the carrier stays up until you start closing the lever and the bolt goes into the carrier. If it does not and drops before the bolt goes into the carrier you have a problem with your spring that goes on the carrier lifter arm. The spring is on the loading gate side. The screw  that adjusts it is under the rifle near where the lever connects.

[Flash]

This is what it looks like when the spring is NOT doing it's job.

[Flash]

This is what it looks like when the spring IS doing it's job.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Flash above has outlined one cause (lifter falls early) that leads to a failure to feed a round into chamber on a toggle gun (the carrier not rising, usually due to the right side (lifter spring) screw under the receiver having loosened or broken or stripped).  However, this condition usually means you NEVER will chamber a round until that screw is properly tightened or the broken spring is replaced.

 

Another would be that the round has not made it out of the magazine at all, or not very far and gets pushed back into the magazine by the lifter, so that the lifter comes up without a round on it.  So bolt has nothing to push into chamber.   This condition would be more able to give you an intermittent success of chambering a round.   This could be caused by a really tired mag spring, but is more commonly caused by a dirty magazine tube or follower!  If you have not cleaned the mag tube in the time that you have had the rifle, do that SOON!  VERY few pards have "worn out" a magazine spring.  More often, rust or fouling is slowing down the magazine follower and the rounds that the follower feeds out of magazine into the lifter.

 

So, you need a few dummy rounds to test the feeding with the gun running those dummies (no powder, and either a fired or no primer).    Watch down the lifter shaft as you run the lever (fully, but slowly) out and back.   When lever is fully forward, stop and check that a round has popped out of magazine rearwards into the opening in the lifter body.   Then, as you pull the lever back to the grip, watch the carrier and the round.   That should tell you more of what is happening, so that we can help you understand what to fix.

 

Good luck, GJ

[4 Mile Drifter]

I appreciate y'alls advice.  I checked the screw on the spring and it's tight. From the Flash's vids the carrier seems to be coming up to the full height position. I don't have any rounds with no primer or no powder but do have 38 snap caps. When I did what Garrsion Joe suggests with the snap caps I  noticed that the first round seems to enter the carrier cleanly and is ejected cleanly.  However, when I watch the second and subsequent rounds get pushed into the carrier they sometimes go in straight and sometimes crooked so that the carrier doesn't pick them up at all.  This, of course, creates a jam but not the situation I was running into on Sunday.  The gun never jammed but the carrier didn't consistently pick up a round.  But I'm not sure if this an effect created by the snap cap or the gun.

 

I don't believe I've ever cleaned the magazine tube or follower but will now.  I'll try it again when I've done that but for now it's still not working cleanly.

 

Thanks,

4 Mile

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Some Uberti toggle link guns (including 66 models) have a poorly beveled loading gate mortise (aka window) cut through the frame.

 

Here's more details and pictures, and the technique to fix that.  I have had to improve this bevel on MOST Uberti toggle guns made from about 2003 to 2013 that I have worked on.

 

Go here:

http://www.pioneergunworks.com/technical-info/

 

Click on the link called "Model 66 & 73 frame modification to improve feeding of the first round"

 

A poorly beveled loading gate mortise will most often cause the FIRST round on a stage to jam crooked in the carrier.   Your description says second or third cartridge jams.   So, it may still be that you have a dirty magazine tube.  (But, I doubt it if you see rounds sitting crooked in the carrier)

 

And, some folks have so much of this happen that they install an aluminum or fiberglass liner tube in their mag tube to cut down on the small diameter .38s sitting in the (.45 Colt size) magazine tube crooked.   I've not had a problem as long as the shooter used Round Nose Flat Point or Truncated Cone bullets, which tend to straighten up the bullet stack in the mag tube.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Equanimous Phil]

On 6/25/2019 at 10:37 PM, 4 Mile Drifter said:

[...] However, when I watch the second and subsequent rounds get pushed into the carrier they sometimes go in straight and sometimes crooked so that the carrier doesn't pick them up at all.  This, of course, creates a jam but not the situation I was running into on Sunday.  The gun never jammed but the carrier didn't consistently pick up a round.  But I'm not sure if this an effect created by the snap cap or the gun. [...]

 

The snap caps I have (.45 a-zoom) are lighter, shorter and a little different regarding shape than the rounds I use. They're imho good to practice gun handling and dry firing but not to check the action.

 

Did you cycle the action at the same speed as when shooting? I guess dynamics have a noticeable effect.

 

Just some thoughts from a not so experienced shooter,

Equanimous
 

[4 Mile Drifter]

9 hours ago, Equanimous Phil said:

 

The snap caps I have (.45 a-zoom) are lighter, shorter and a little different regarding shape than the rounds I use. They're imho good to practice gun handling and dry firing but not to check the action.

 

Did you cycle the action at the same speed as when shooting? I guess dynamics have a noticeable effect.

 

Just some thoughts from a not so experienced shooter,

Equanimous
 

Equanimous, I realize that snap caps are much lighter than a loaded round and I'm buying some primerless rounds to use for better testing. I'm not sure if I'm going the same speed when I test versus when I'm on a stage but will definitely try to be aware of that possible difference.  Thanks for pointing that out.

 

4 Mile

[4 Mile Drifter]

On 6/25/2019 at 2:40 PM, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Some Uberti toggle link guns (including 66 models) have a poorly beveled loading gate mortise (aka window) cut through the frame.

 

Here's more details and pictures, and the technique to fix that.  I have had to improve this bevel on MOST Uberti toggle guns made from about 2003 to 2013 that I have worked on.

 

Go here:

http://www.pioneergunworks.com/technical-info/

 

Click on the link called "Model 66 & 73 frame modification to improve feeding of the first round"

 

A poorly beveled loading gate mortise will most often cause the FIRST round on a stage to jam crooked in the carrier.   Your description says second or third cartridge jams.   So, it may still be that you have a dirty magazine tube.  (But, I doubt it if you see rounds sitting crooked in the carrier)

 

And, some folks have so much of this happen that they install an aluminum or fiberglass liner tube in their mag tube to cut down on the small diameter .38s sitting in the (.45 Colt size) magazine tube crooked.   I've not had a problem as long as the shooter used Round Nose Flat Point or Truncated Cone bullets, which tend to straighten up the bullet stack in the mag tube.

 

Good luck, GJ

GJ, I use LNFP and truncated rounds. All of the reloaded ammo I have are round nose but I was using Remington factory truncated rounds in the last match.  I did check out the pictures at Pioneer Gunworks and I'll admit I'm very leery of making this much of a modification without seeing it done in real life.  I'd be the cowboy who grinds off way too much and winds up screwing everything up.  I truly appreciate all your suggestions and advice.  The great thing about this forum is there are always folks willing to help out a rank amateur.  Probably what I really need to do is find somebody locally who can show me how to take the inner workings apart and get them back together correctly before I start doing modifications on this rifle.

 

Thanks to all,

4 Mile

[Lawman Mays]

I have a Uberti 66 and 73.  For cleaning and general maintenance I'm sure there are several videos on YouTube that show how to disassemble the gun and put it back together. That's how I learned to do it. When you have done it once, it will get easier each time.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

4 hours ago, 4 Mile Drifter said:

Probably what I really need to do is find somebody locally who can show me how to take the inner workings apart and get them back together correctly before I start doing modifications on this rifle.

 

Yep, "A Man's Got to Know His Limitations" 

 

Find a local pard who knows his way through the inside of a toggle gun.  Have him show you the workings, assy and disassy steps, etc.   It's as simple a gun as we have in cowboy shooting, because so much of the action is visible when assembled, and even more visible when the side plates are off and you hold the toggles engaged on the lever's pin. 

 

He'll probably be able to spot what is causing your intermittent feeding problem, too. 

 

If you have to, seek the assistance of a patient cowboy gunsmith to show you the ropes.   Joe Alves and his son down in Oregon at Pioneer Gunsmiths are not real  far away from you, I would guess.

 

Good luck, GJ

[4 Mile Drifter]

On 6/27/2019 at 2:15 PM, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

Yep, "A Man's Got to Know His Limitations" 

 

Find a local pard who knows his way through the inside of a toggle gun.  Have him show you the workings, assy and disassy steps, etc.   It's as simple a gun as we have in cowboy shooting, because so much of the action is visible when assembled, and even more visible when the side plates are off and you hold the toggles engaged on the lever's pin. 

 

He'll probably be able to spot what is causing your intermittent feeding problem, too. 

 

If you have to, seek the assistance of a patient cowboy gunsmith to show you the ropes.   Joe Alves and his son down in Oregon at Pioneer Gunsmiths are not real  far away from you, I would guess.

 

Good luck, GJ

Thanks for all your help.  I'm old enough to know when I don't know something and the last thing I want to do is put a gun back together wrong.  Can't see anything good coming out of that.  Pioneer is a pretty far drive for me so I guess I'll just make the shorter trip up to Maple Valley and get Cedar County Sheriff to get the gun working properly again.  Hopefully he can do it while I'm hanging out so I can see how to take it apart and put it back correctly.  Y'all have been great and much appreciated.

 

4 Mile