Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Is anyone aware of any commercially available lead-free snake shot pistol loads...? Since lead is now outlawed in California, it seems a shame to have to make a choice between getting rattlesnake bit or being cited for breaking the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulp, SASS#28319 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Should be able to make some pretty easy. Speer sells the plastic shot cups for several different calibers. Real easy with a cap and ball revolver, 10 grains of BP, an overpowder card, fill to the rim with shot, and an overshot card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted June 19, 2019 Author Share Posted June 19, 2019 "Commercially available" is the active phrase here. I know many people who don't reload... like the single lady who lives in the foothills and keeps her .38 revolver handy when gardening, having dispatched several snakes over the years. Or anyone who doesn't shoot enough to warrant investing in reloading equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 Is it illegal to shoot at an animal with lead, or to shoot at ANYTHING with lead? If the latter, seems like it would kill, not just CAS, but all recreational shooting in the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 I thought lead was legal except for when used while hunting. The law says "taking" of wildlife. I would assume that is "the licensed taking of wildlife" as in game animals. This website doesn't really help to clarify it...Sheesh... https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/hunting/nonlead-ammunition#25046253-how-does-this-affect-depredation-permits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted June 19, 2019 Author Share Posted June 19, 2019 14 minutes ago, Alpo said: Is it illegal to shoot at an animal with lead, or to shoot at ANYTHING with lead? If the latter, seems like it would kill, not just CAS, but all recreational shooting in the state. Targets are okay. For now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 What it appears to me, is that it all boils down to how California defines TAKING. I've read the law, and they keep harping on "taking of wildlife", to include game mammals, game birds, non-game mammals, and non-game birds. Nowhere, in the entire law, does it mention reptiles. It does mention "$500 for first offense", but don't mention reptiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall Tale Todd Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 What about CCI? That’s what I load my 686+ with when we go up into the hills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 You could move to Arizona? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. James H. Callahan Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 I've tried shot loads in .22, .38, .45 ACP and .44 Mag (probably actually a Special). In my experience they all suck. Had a .410 "Snake eye" derringer once, and it sucked too. Would 'bout tear your fingers off, esp. with 3 in. loads, and you could barely hit a beer can with it at 10 feet. Sold it in a garage sale. JHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. James H. Callahan Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Alpo said: Is it illegal to shoot at an animal with lead, or to shoot at ANYTHING with lead? If the latter, seems like it would kill, not just CAS, but all recreational shooting in the state. Don't get caught. JHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oklahomabound Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 CCI shotshell pistiol loads.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 The no-lead law applies to hunting ammo-Not to self defense ammo. Just ask any Game Warden........ OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: Is anyone aware of any commercially available lead-free snake shot pistol loads...? Since lead is now outlawed in California, it seems a shame to have to make a choice between getting rattlesnake bit or being cited for breaking the law. Lead is not outlawed in PRK(yet). OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted June 19, 2019 Author Share Posted June 19, 2019 27 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: The no-lead law applies to hunting ammo-Not to self defense ammo. Just ask any Game Warden........ OLG From the California Fish and Wildlife site: "The regulations do not prohibit the possession of concealable firearms containing lead ammunition, provided the firearm is possessed for personal protection and is not used to take or assist in the take of wildlife." I do believe snakes qualify as "wildlife." 25 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Lead is not outlawed in PRK (yet). OLG It will be in 12 days. I know a couple of wardens. I honestly don't think they would cite someone for using lead shot on a snake... but there are those who would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 13 minutes ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: protection and is not used to take or assist in the take of wildlife." Again - what does TAKE mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 15 minutes ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: From the California Fish and Wildlife site: "The regulations do not prohibit the possession of concealable firearms containing lead ammunition, provided the firearm is possessed for personal protection and is not used to take or assist in the take of wildlife." I do believe snakes qualify as "wildlife." It will be in 12 days. I know a couple of wardens. I honestly don't think they would cite someone for using lead shot on a snake... but there are those who would. Snakes are not classified as 'wildlife'. Again-Call Fish and Game......... What will happen in 12 days? OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted June 19, 2019 Author Share Posted June 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Snakes are not classified as 'wildlife'. Again-Call Fish and Game......... What will happen in 12 days? OLG Check the link below. The new non-lead ammunition restrictions take affect for all game and non-game animals throughout the state. Gotta protect those Klamath Basin condors, don'tcha know. California Fish and Wildlife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 19, 2019 Share Posted June 19, 2019 11 minutes ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: Check the link below. The new non-lead ammunition restrictions take affect for all game and non-game animals throughout the state. Gotta protect those Klamath Basin condors, don'tcha know. California Fish and Wildlife Carry a pellet rifle and your're GTG Shoot'n a rattlesnake is self-defense. You can carry lead rounds in a SD weapon while hunting. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Would rock salt kill a snake? I’d probably use sea salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. James H. Callahan Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said: Would rock salt kill a snake? I’d probably use sea salt. Probably as well or better than those shot loads. BTW, there's a reason they call it SEA salt. Good place for it. Tastes like salt and dirt. JHIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catlow4697 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 Just carry a big stick Fish and Game said to take three large steps backwards then you will be out of striking range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 5 hours ago, Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 said: You could move to Arizona? I already did and several other well-known SASSites are here as well. As for snake shot I'd be tempted to try rock salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Devil Dale Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 9 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said: I thought lead was legal except for when used while hunting. The law says "taking" of wildlife. I would assume that is "the licensed taking of wildlife" as in game animals. This website doesn't really help to clarify it...Sheesh... https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/hunting/nonlead-ammunition#25046253-how-does-this-affect-depredation-permits It all started when endangered Condors were found dead, of lead poisoning, with half digested lead bullets in their crop, presumed picked up in feeding on carcasses of dead animals that had been shot. The Endangered Species Act was used to restrict all lead bullets used for hunting within the Southern California Condor fly-over range. Then later, lead poisoned waterfowl were found, thought to have picked up lead shotgun pellets feeding in shallow water. The Federal Migratory Bird Treaty Act was used as the legal basis to restrict lead for bird hunting. Eventually all of that morphed into a total hunting lead restriction. It only affects hunting ammunition. Does that fill in the understanding gaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 Actually, lead was banned for waterfowl hunting in 1991... well before the condor thing. Back in 2013 I read a news article on a local radio station's website (KMJ) reporting a huge increase in lead poisoning of condor, and blaming hunters in Southern California. I typed and posted the following response: Quote "AS usual, the blame is assigned to hunters. "However, lead ammunition has been banned in the 'Condor Areas' for over five years; prior to that there had been a five year program to eliminate potentially lead-contaminated offal left where condors might feed. Accordingly, ammunition-caused toxicity should be decreasing. Unfortunately, it's easy to focus the attention on hunters while ignoring other, more prevalent sources of lead: industrial compounds. "Industrial lead compounds, which are quite soluble in digestive tracts, are found in paint, gasoline, pesticides, and micro-trash. These lead compound sources are very common in the environment, and are likely responsible for many of the highly publicized lead poisonings attributed to lead ammunition. "Oh - and let's not forget the lead mining operations in the state!" Note: There are at least ten lead mining sites in Los Angeles county alone. A moment later this message popped up on my screen: "Your post contains offensive content and will not be posted. You may edit the content and re-post." In my sometimes less-than-humble opinion, this "condor thing" has gotten out of hand, and has become a club for the lefty radicals in Sacramento. When the total state ban was proposed, even the California Game Warden Association opposed it's statewide implementation: Quote In an article in USA Today, Governor Brown lists lead’s dangers to wildlife as the main reason he signed the bill. However, USA Today also included reference to a letter, written in opposition to the ban by the California Game Warden Association: "California Game Wardens are on the front line enforcing the ban on lead ammunition for most hunting in condor range. But there is insufficient data to justify such a drastic action across the entire state." The Center for Biological Diversity pushed for the lead ban. Considered among the top 10 anti-hunting organizations in this country, the Center for Biological Diversity currently is running campaigns against the Keystone Pipeline’s path, against hunting wolves and other species, and generally against most forms of hunting. Period. Just another tactic to make political hay at our expense, as the vast majority of the population does not know nor cares to know the details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said: It all started when endangered Condors were found dead, of lead poisoning, with half digested lead bullets in their crop, presumed picked up in feeding on carcasses of dead animals that had been shot. The Endangered Species Act was used to restrict all lead bullets used for hunting within the Southern California Condor fly-over range. Then later, lead poisoned waterfowl were found, thought to have picked up lead shotgun pellets feeding in shallow water. The Federal Migratory Bird Treaty Act was used as the legal basis to restrict lead for bird hunting. Eventually all of that morphed into a total hunting lead restriction. It only affects hunting ammunition. Does that fill in the understanding gaps? Thanks for that tidbit of information but I already knew about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Mosby Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 I went to a local Big 5 yesterday to get a couple of boxes of ammo before the stupidity level rises again and asked the clerk what he knew about the upcoming harassment. His response was: "we really don't know yet. We have a big legal team going over it, but they haven't made any clarifications yet. All we know for sure is that background checks will be required." Is there such a thing as snake loads in 45acp? My pistol options are my 1911, a .380 auto (no way I'm using it in that one!) or a .22. Seems to me you couldn't get enough pellets into a .22 to do much more than p*ss off the snake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Willie Nelson Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 13 hours ago, Capt. James H. Callahan said: I've tried shot loads in .22, .38, .45 ACP and .44 Mag (probably actually a Special). In my experience they all suck. Agreed... Around my place 12 ga. 7 1/2's seem to work the best. Of course also around my place, every snake, according to my wife is a "copper-back-diamond-mouth-cotton-head-rattle-cobra-mamba". Even this good one she had me kill last week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Shotgun Willie Nelson said: Agreed... Around my place 12 ga. 7 1/2's seem to work the best. Of course also around my place, every snake, according to my wife is a "copper-back-diamond-mouth-cotton-head-rattle-cobra-mamba". Even this good one she had me kill last week... You need to explain to here that the good snakes keep the poisionous snakes away. They also do a wonderful job a controlling the rodent population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Mike Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 45acp shot shells function perfectly in a 1911. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.