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Super Henry (Full Race Henry)


Cypress Sam, SASS #10915

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Here are some more pictures of my “Super” Henry.  The main reason for this post is to show the forend in a little more detail than posted before.  Also included are some pictures of the lifter modifications to the lifter to allow shooting 44 Russian rounds,

 

The forend was a throwaway that was in the burn bin at Gun Crafters, a gun shop and range in Ruskin Florida.  It was probably the forend on a Model 92.  I widened the channels for the magazine and barrel to fit the Henry barrel/mag very closely.  I use a dowel as a spacer/cushion to allow the follower to stop before reaching the frame.  I also made a new follower to fit better in the slot in the forend.  I cut the slot on my milling machine.  For the secondary slot/finger groove, I used the mill with a ball-end mill bit.  Stained with tobacco juice/turpentine and finished with boiled linseed oil 50/50 with turpentine.

 

The lifter and spacer are machined out of aircraft aluminum.  The spacer is 1/4” thick making the lifter length more like the original 44 Henry Flat cartridge.  When coupled with a third gen SS links, the stroke is shorter than SASS legal for matches.  So I don’t put it in the gun except maybe for show and tell!

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pretty cool!  If SASS legal I would make a forend for my Henry.  I a;already use the stick.  

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With the Shooters Handbook saying that you can change the length and style of stocks, they would be hard pressed to claim that a wood forend is illegal.  No one has ever questioned mine, not that I’m going to be winning EOT or anything with it.

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"Grips or stocks of simulated or natural materials are acceptable provided they are not customized to constitute a “target” grip or stock. That is, they must be of the same basic shape as grips or stocks found on original firearms."

 

Since there was no fore stock on the originals...

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IMO...don't believe this to be SASS Legal... Someone can correct me, but there may have been a experimental wood forearm  put on a few limited 1860's, other than that, never had one.

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It seems to me that adding a forend that was never there is just as legal as removing a forend that was there like all of the Hollywood Henrys.  The forend is the least of the worries about “ilegal” mods on that gun.  With the modified lifter, spacer and lifter arm, the stroke I’d down to 3-3/4” which makes it 3/4” UNDER the SASS minimum stroke.  

 

The rifle makes ales a fun piece to play around with but really doesn’t give any advantage over a ‘66.  I got the idea for the forend from seeing some Transitional Henrys on display at EOT several years ago.  As I recall, they had a manual loading gate and still had the slot in the mag tube and had a fixed forend.   I think it they were Uberti’s in a Taylors display but it may have been Cimarron.

 

I didn’t want to do anything to the frame or any of the original parts in order to be able to return it to it’s original configuration as a 44-40 stock Henry.  

 

Others can argue about legality if you want, it ain’t a fight I’m going to put my dog in.  I’ll just pick a different rifle.  One of the others really is not legal for SASS matches.  Can you tell which one?

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You want a faster rifle...get a faster rifle.  They already make a Henry with the forearm - and it includes one of them new King's Patent loading gates. :D

 

Looks like a fun little project though and certainly a conversation piece - good work! +1 on the cool factor 

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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And if the club he shoots at allows him to use it, and he is not going to a SASS Regional shoot, then why the fuss?  Again isn't this supposed to be fun?  We allow checkered revolver grips, don't remember any back in history unless you are equating those with "notches" yet those are approved?  If the shooter isn't competitive, doesn't want to be and his/her club allows it then let it be!  As I stated before an old cowpoke told my son the the rebounfding hammer on the 1892 Winchester he was shooting was not legal at a SASS sponsored shoot.  It is he is wrong and there you go.  It's a game, and as long as no one is cheating to win a particular category, enjoy the variety.

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8 minutes ago, Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 said:

And if the club he shoots at allows him to use it, and he is not going to a SASS Regional shoot, then why the fuss?  Again isn't this supposed to be fun?  We allow checkered revolver grips, don't remember any back in history unless you are equating those with "notches" yet those are approved?

If it's not a SASS-sanctioned shoot, and the match director allows it, no problem.

 

Checkered hard rubber/gutta percha grips on Colt single actions date to the early 1880's. Here's a later 1st Gen .45, dating to 1911, with factory documented checkered wood grips. If you came across with the extra $5 or whatever, Colt would probably make whatever grips you wanted on it.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/72/3370/documented-1st-generation-colt-single-action-army-revolver-box

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15 minutes ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

If it's not a SASS-sanctioned shoot, and the match director allows it, no problem.

 

Checkered hard rubber/gutta percha grips on Colt single actions date to the early 1880's. Here's a later 1st Gen .45, dating to 1911, with factory documented checkered wood grips. If you came across with the extra $5 or whatever, Colt would probably make whatever grips you wanted on it.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/72/3370/documented-1st-generation-colt-single-action-army-revolver-box

I was referring to the wood checkered grips being used on Colt style revolvers, not 1911's.  These I believe went thru an approval process by the Wild Bunch a while ago.  I don't think the above posts were discussing Wild Bunch matches using 1911 style pistols.  Just want to make sure I am on the same page.

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Correct - checkered hard rubber/Gutta Percha grips were being used on Colt single action revolvers as early as 1881 or 82, long before the 1911 came along. The above referenced Rock Island auction also pertains to a 1st Generation Colt single action revolver made in 1911 with original, factory documented, checkered wood grips.

 

This one, with its original checkered hard rubber "double eagle" grips, dates to 1883.

Colt.jpg

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That's pretty cool  !2002772728_2017-01-1418_16_25.thumb.jpg.a467480c07e496b938113c5a1f8e2709.jpg

But why not just use a Improved Henry they made in 1866 ?

They are very similar and they even have a kings patent loading gate on them too :D  

Just sayin 

Rooster 

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15 hours ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

Correct - checkered hard rubber/Gutta Percha grips were being used on Colt single action revolvers as early as 1881 or 82, long before the 1911 came along. The above referenced Rock Island auction also pertains to a 1st Generation Colt single action revolver made in 1911 with original, factory documented, checkered wood grips.

 

This one, with its original checkered hard rubber "double eagle" grips, dates to 1883.

Colt.jpg

Got it. Once again I am talking about the wood checkered grips that had to be approved by the powers that be. I believe you have been in the game long enough to remember those as well as the Colt original hard rubber grips, yes?  

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2 hours ago, watab kid said:

i like that plug with the stop pin , it will make the 1860 far more pleasant to use in a match - im making one of those real soon , 

 

Might want to confirm the legality of any modifications before using them in competition.
:ph34r:

 

REF: SHB pp. 33-40

 

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Huh... I don't use one in my 1860, but I know folks who do, and it would clearly appear to be an illegal modification.

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Internal modifications not referenced here that cannot be seen while the firearm is at rest (action closed) are allowed provided they do not affect the external operation or directly conflict with one of the modifications listed here.

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i did not realize it was an illegal mod either as ive seen many of them over the years , just not with the pin , good thing is even if it gave me an advantage over my normal use it would make little difference in my finish point in most matches , i seldom use my 60 , i prefer my 66 , 

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Gentlemen, variety is the spice of life and ingenuity is the mother of invention!  Again it’s not like he is going to knock any of the top shooters off their pedestals!  Without this type of thinking the short stroke and pawl kits wouldn’t have happened. Let him enjoy shooting at his club!

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Just now, Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 said:

Gentlemen, variety is the spice of life and ingenuity is the mother of invention!  Again it’s not like he is going to knock any of the top shooters off their pedestals!  Without this type of thinking the short stroke and pawl kits wouldn’t have happened. Let him enjoy shooting at his club!

So I guess reach participant can define what rules are cool with them and which are not... Because heck, we all know that the only folks objecting are doing so because they're afraid of being knocked off their pedestal.

 

Gotcha!

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2 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

So I guess reach participant can define what rules are cool with them and which are not... Because heck, we all know that the only folks objecting are doing so because they're afraid of being knocked off their pedestal.

 

Gotcha!

Phantom! My old compadre, how are you? I do not believe I said that we should throw old the rules. I said if his club lets him shoot then let him enjoy it!  As always you and I have to disagree and that also adds to the spice of life. This sport has evolved from the earliest days when there were little rules and a lot of innovation in what could be used back then just to get people to play. Like someone said I don’t remember too many cowboys using 1897 shotguns. But that rule was changed and accepted. 

He is not asking for s change in the rules, he is using something at a local club that they have agreed to and no one is saying it is giving him an unfair advantage in competing probably, no offense” he isn’t competitive, he is just shooting for fun.  Why do we need to get in their business?  

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22 minutes ago, Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 said:

Phantom! My old compadre, how are you? I do not believe I said that we should throw old the rules. I said if his club lets him shoot then let him enjoy it!  As always you and I have to disagree and that also adds to the spice of life. This sport has evolved from the earliest days when there were little rules and a lot of innovation in what could be used back then just to get people to play. Like someone said I don’t remember too many cowboys using 1897 shotguns. But that rule was changed and accepted. 

He is not asking for s change in the rules, he is using something at a local club that they have agreed to and no one is saying it is giving him an unfair advantage in competing probably, no offense” he isn’t competitive, he is just shooting for fun.  Why do we need to get in their business?  

Because we're afraid to be knocked off our pedestals... So say you.

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6 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Because we're afraid to be knocked off our pedestals... So say you.

Yeah, right!  Whom ever at his club shooting in his category is worried about him shooting, using his forearm modified 1860 now being so competitive that he would make someone like Evil Roy cry getting beat!  Oh Please! 

 

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6 minutes ago, Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 said:

Yeah, right!  Whom ever at his club shooting in his category is worried about him shooting, using his forearm modified 1860 now being so competitive that he would make someone like Evil Roy cry getting beat!  Oh Please! 

 

Yer the one that suggested this motive, not me.

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Does it matter if the person is competitive or not if he or she uses an illegal modification? I think, fwiw, illegal is illegal and not to be used.

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Phantom we got to stop this, my wife thinks I am texting a girlfriend!

 

Mad Dog you are correct, never said it wasn’t illegal, but if it is acceptable at his club, why should anyone else care?  But I have lost this argument before with the John Wayne grips so I am signing off before I get yelled at by SASS again. Happy Trails. 

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Instead of relying on individual/personal interpretation of the rules or seeking validation via the Wire, there is a process in place to secure an "official" opinion regarding any "questionable" firearm modifications.

REF: SHB p.33

 

MODIFICATION APPLICATION

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On 6/19/2019 at 12:08 AM, Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 said:

I was referring to the wood checkered grips being used on Colt style revolvers, not 1911's.  These I believe went thru an approval process by the Wild Bunch a while ago.  I don't think the above posts were discussing Wild Bunch matches using 1911 style pistols.  Just want to make sure I am on the same page.

Let's straighten this out.  Cosmetic embellishments were approved a LONG time ago... not a "while".

From the 1989 SHB, "Contemporary rubber grips and modern target grips are not allowed. Replacement grips of wood, Ivory, pearl, stag horn, bone and the like are perfectly acceptable so long as they are not severely customized so as to constitute a "target" grip. That is, they must be of original shape and scale."

Checkering has always been included in the non-target grip classification.  Grips that included finger grooves and extended below the bottom of the backstrap were, and I believe still are, considered target grip enhancements, ergo, illegal.

 

As to the stick to avoid the "Henry Hop", while its use has been around for many years, I don't believe it's ever been submitted for approval.  But, on the other hand, is it really a modification to the firearm?  It does change the ergonomics of the gun, in that changes how one reacts the guns operation... or in its case, how one needn't react to the follower.

 

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