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Questions on target distances


Too Tall Bob

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Ok - first things first:  I DO NOT want to start a discussion/argument/mud slinging session about this.  All I want to know is what distances clubs are typically setting rifle, pistol and shotgun targets at for:

a - monthly matches

b- annual matches

Please do not turn this into a tirade - we all know the SASS recommended distances. My interest is to get an overall idea of what actual practices are. 

 

Thanks in advance and no - I am not providing popcorn and root-beer this time!

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Just make your best guess and make a survey of those who's shot the stages.   When you get an equal number of complaints that the targets were too close as too far, too small vs too big,  too close together vs too spread apart, than you you've hit a happy median.  

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Just now, Warden Callaway said:

Just make your best guess and make a survey of those who's shot the stages.   When you get an equal number of complaints that the targets were too close as too far, too small vs too big,  too close together vs too spread apart, than you you've hit a happy median.  

True but I am looking for other folks practices. 

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362
36 minutes ago, Too Tall Bob said:

Ok - first things first:  I DO NOT want to start a discussion/argument/mud slinging session about this.  All I want to know is what distances clubs are typically setting rifle, pistol and shotgun targets at for:

a - monthly matches

b- annual matches

Please do not turn this into a tirade - we all know the SASS recommended distances. My interest is to get an overall idea of what actual practices are. 

 

Thanks in advance and no - I am not providing popcorn and root-beer this time!

I have seen them all over the distance spectrum I do see more as close as 3 yds at more of the clubs in the west .  No real answer. IMHO

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My home range is a noted long and small range (long range- small tgts).

 

We have a creek that runs thru the middle of the range and the targets are on the other side otherwise we cant run two ranges at once.

 

The pistol and SG targets are about 10M and the rifle are approx 20M.

 

I would say that is likely the longest ranges you will find as a standard set up in Aust.

 

Generally QLD is known as the close and fast State with the rest generally on the longer side of the SASS recommendations (not as bad/good as my home club)

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We put are targets on or about:

Pistol 7 yards

Rifle 14 yards

Shotgun 11 yards

 

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Below is for Monthly and annual matches.

 

Club Alpha;

All Huge targets

Rifle 20 to 25 feet, SG 15 feet and pistol 4 - 8 feet. 

Pistol targets are WAY to close for my liking so I seldom shoot there. Rely too heavily on props controlling splatter.

 

Bravo

All medium to large targets

Rifle 20 to 25 feet, SG 15 feet and pistol 8 - 10 feet.  

Target size and distance is pretty good.

 

Charlie

Medium to large rifle targets. Small to medium pistol targets

Rifle 25 to 35 feet, SG 15 feet and pistol 10 feet. 

Pistol targets are challenging but still fun.

 

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Too Tall Bob

you didn't tell us how big you targets are.

why would monthly target distance be different than annual match distances ?

I would poll your club members what they would like 

Granted you can't please everyone 

If you veried the distances per stage . That would make the shooting interesting .

Just remenber this is action shooting not bullseye shooting. Mix things up ,use your range to  your best advantage

You are blessed with some of the best shooters in the world in Az , they have been shooting and running clubs for many years.

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5 minutes ago, Catlow4697 said:

Too Tall Bob

you didn't tell us how big you targets are.

why would monthly target distance be different than annual match distances ?

I would poll your club members what they would like 

Granted you can't please everyone 

If you veried the distances per stage . That would make the shooting interesting .

Just remenber this is action shooting not bullseye shooting. Mix things up ,use your range to  your best advantage

You are blessed with some of the best shooters in the world in Az , they have been shooting and running clubs for many years.

Not so much concerned about my club but am interested in what others are doing. I shoot at matches with targets ranging from 15x16 clear up to 18x24 and they all have their merits and issues. Soooo - share what you all do. And, thanks again in advance. 

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Generally speaking... Since the target size will have some influence...

 

Pistols are 4-7 yards

Rifle are 12-15 yards

Shotgun are about 8 yards.

 

Again, generally speaking... Target size about 18x18.

 

Phantom

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Our smallest targets are 16 x 16, biggest 24 x 24, some in between. I just made some 8 x 8 for special  scenarios. Typical pistol here are 5-7 yards, rifle 10-15 yards, shotgun 7-10 yards. It's my feeling that folks are getting tired of the in your face drag race targets and are wanting something a little more challenging. 

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My match setup philosophy when I was Match Director was that targets that are generously sized and closer to the firing line are more fun for most shooters.

 

IMO; movement and sequences are what make matches "interesting" or "memorable" - not the challenge between 3 yard and 7 yard pistol targets.

 

The Eldorado Cowboys have an assortment of 16x16 inch targets and a smattering of 24x24 (and larger).

 

I generally placed pistol targets at 3 - 4 paces.  

 

Shotgun at 7 - 8 paces.

 

Rifle at 9 - 12 paces (further downrange placements were used when the same targets serve double duty as both rifle and pistol with downrange movement)

The 12 paces allow for a 6 - 10 step downrange movement to shoot pistols at the expected pistol distances.

 

This design helped our match grow year over year surpassing the shooter counts of the state matches of many much more populous states.

 

It also lead to our match being honored by the prestigious Wooly award for match of the year.

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Having learned from Creeker, and with vocal close and big shooters, my "standard" is 5 paces for pistol, 7 for shotgun and 8 for rifle.

Shotgun doesn't come any closer, although pistols and rifle have been known to be short stroked and placed a little closer.

 

Once in a while we will have a challenging stage with pistols at 7 or 8 paces and rifles as far as 12 paces.

 

To quote TA Chance, "they are my paces", not necessarily yards.

 

NN

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1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I'll never understand rifle at roughly 8 yards as a standard... Assuming a size of around 18".

 

Phantom

You own and run a successful business.

 

So as you well know, no matter how strong your own personal preferences or biases - ultimately to thrive, you have to provide the product your customers want. 

 

Because if you don't...

Someone else will.

 

Right now; southern Nevada is about big and close.  

Offer otherwise and our shooters will drive to Arizona or Southern California.

 

Or worse; find a different game to play.

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We practice on 12X12 targets from 4 to 7 paces for the pistols and 10 to 12 paces for the rifles.  We vary the distance between them .    I like to practice for a specific match.  When practicing for Bordertown have the transitions close as well as the targets.   For Eldorado and EOT I practice with the targets close, but more room for transitions and downrange movement.  When preparing for Winter Range mix up the distances.  Generally the targets will have three different distances you must adjust to.  If you are practicing on smaller targets you will not be intimidated by distances.  I will break out my 16X16 targets for Bordertown.  Hope this helps.  

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3 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I'll never understand rifle at roughly 8 yards as a standard... Assuming a size of around 18".

 

Phantom

 

That's closer than our pistol targets:D

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We generally use 16"X16" targets, standard 24" cowboy silhouettes, and buffalo silhouettes, with a few other shapes/sizes thrown in on occasion. Due to the nature of our target stands - targets hang vertically - we've set minimum distances at 5 yards pistol, 8 yards shotgun, 11 yards rifle.  Any closer and we get too many splatter complaints...moving them more than a yard or two further out, we get a lot of  "too far out" complaints.  Each of our 7 monthlies has a different match director, with each being free to extend those distances at his/her own peril, but I actively discourage going much past the above range on more than one or two stages (of six).  Again, keep the customer wanting to come back!

 

CS

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7 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

You own and run a successful business.

 

So as you well know, no matter how strong your own personal preferences or biases - ultimately to thrive, you have to provide the product your customers want. 

 

Because if you don't...

Someone else will.

 

Right now; southern Nevada is about big and close.  

Offer otherwise and our shooters will drive to Arizona or Southern California.

 

Or worse; find a different game to play.

Yeah... I'm sure 18" rifle targets at 10-12 yards would drive folks away from the game:lol:

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We set em close enough so that when you go empty, you can throw your guns at them.

That's what they do in the movies... right?  ;) Duh

 

4-7 yds for pistol, 7-15 yds for rifle, 6-10 yds for shotgun. Not hard and fast, but usually.

Sometimes the stage writer (me) gets a wild hair and all bets are off.

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I shoot pretty regularly at 4 clubs in the Atlanta/North Georgia area (used to be 5).  All 4 clubs are pretty similar with respect to target size and distance.  Pistols are usually somewhere between 4-7 yards, rifles are usually somewhere between 10-14 yards and shotgun is somewhere around 9-10 yards.  Targets are usually regularly spaced.  Pistol targets tend to be about 18x12 and rifle targets are about 12x12, though we do get irregularly shaped targets, knockdowns, and moving targets as well. 

 

The 5th club sets them back a bit farther and sometimes uses smaller targets with bigger spacing between targets.

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You get 12 cowboys together and ask them a simple question, which do you prefer, Ford of Chevy.

 

3 will come back Ford. 3 will come back Chevy. 1 will come back Ram. 2 will agree with Toyota. 1 will say Nissan. 1 will say GMC. 1 will say Honda. Then, one guy will change his mind and say Jeep.

 

one simple, binary, question and you get 7 or 8 responses back.

 

Shooting preferences are kind of the same. 

 

Personally, I like matches with a bit of variety. If I leave with around and say, around 40% of the stages I loved, 40% I liked, and 20%, while I didn't hate them, they just weren't ones that I loved... well, I think that is a pretty good match.

 

And, here is the thing that I learned....that 20% that I might not have loved may have been your favorite stages of the match...because we don't all like the same things.

 

That is why a good match has to have some variety. You set up everything the same on every stage, people are going to either get bored, or be run off because it isn't something they like. You will find this sweet spot where, with target size into consideration, everything seems to just 'feel right' by the majority of folks.

 

You cannot do this in a vaccum, however.  You need to talk with folks and see what they like and what they don't like about your matches.

 

And, don't let your questions stop at target distances.  Ask about target sizes and shapes. Single taps might be nice on a smaller target, while a bit bigger target might be nice for a multi-taps. BP shooters tend to not prefer targets with holes cut in them. What about target paint color? ask about target height or Table heights. Are there problems with your props for short people or tall people? Do your folks like to dump all their rounds on a single target, do they like having one target for each bullet, or something in between. Are you forgetting lefties? 

 

Round here, we see pistols from 3 to 5 yards or so, rifle in the 7 to 12 ballpark. Some go longer than those ballparks, some shorter. And, round here, from what I hear, most match directors are looking to get around 20% or so of their shooters through the match clean.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

We set em close enough so that when you go empty, you can throw your guns at them.

That's what they do in the movies... right?  ;) Duh...

 

If the gun hits the target, do they get a bonus?  And did you have to make a new club rule that differentiates between "dropped gun" and "thrown gun" ?

 :)

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15 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

I generally placed pistol targets at 3 - 4 paces.  

 

Is this for real? I am trying to imagine what that looks like in practice and not just in my head, but it seems I should leave the cavalry colts and walkers behind if I shoot there, else I might hit the target with the barrels.

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It's only if you're in B-Western and the bonus is a nice quiet ride home. We call it "Flung Gun" and you meant to do it so...

Of course there are them fellas what got pistols soooo long they can just poke the targets, so they don't actually have ta flung em :blink:

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1 hour ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

Is this for real? I am trying to imagine what that looks like in practice and not just in my head, but it seems I should leave the cavalry colts and walkers behind if I shoot there, else I might hit the target with the barrels.

Of course this is for real.

Gunfights were/ are much more likely to occur at arm's length...

Across the card table...

The length of the saloon bar...

 

The Wild Bill Hickok - Tutt meet in the street, carefully aimed 70 yard gunfight is an aberration, if not an outright fallacy.

 

In a timed event, most (not all) shooters want to emulate the quick and dirty gunfights of their imagination and movies.  Think cowboy John Wick.

 

For most; there is less excitement (in a timed event) about long range target shooting.

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My clubs targets are generally

Pistols 6-8 yards

shotgun 8-10 yards

rifle 13-20 yards

About a 50/50 mix of 16x16 and 18x18 R/P targets

shotguns are either 8x8 or 10x10 can't remember

final position determined by Mayor/Match Director

When I used to practice I would move them 1-3 yards farther out

Regards

 

:FlagAm: :FlagAm: :FlagAm:

 

Gateway Kid

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It depends on the range.  Some of ours are fairly shallow bays.  The norm seems to be 5-7 yds on pistols targets.  With smaller targets for those set closer.  Shotgun out 8-10 yds. and Rifle at 10 yds.  There's only one range around that can set targets further back, and they do sometimes, using larger steel.

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For what it’s worth my group has mostly 18”x24” (because that’s what we were provided) targets with a few smaller 12” circle targets. I generally put pistol targets at 5 yards and rifle targets at 10 to 12 yards. There is one part of our little range where I can get almost 20 yards for rifle and then can do a down range movement with pistols and/or shot gun. 

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