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Croc Holiday

Newbie C&B / Conversion questions...

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Hey There!  Watched a Frontiersman match and was in a posse with a few BP shooters at my state match a few weeks back.  I can't shake the thump, flame and smoke of the BP.  It looked like a lot of fun and I'd sure like some for my very own.  I've started doing some research and reading past threads but had some questions.... 

 

What do y'all think of the sheriff models?  I kinda like look of those and thought I'd get some thoughts. 

Is there a model / brand you'd steer clear of?

Is there a model that is better for a cylinder conversion?  Would love to swap between C&B and cartridges down the road.

Is there a workhorse (like the vaquero is) for C&B?  (Ruger OA is off the table for me due to cost). 

Any "I wish I would have..." things you'd share?

 

I do plan to try before I buy like I did with my current gear.   I have a pard with a wide assortment of pistols (I think all of them haha).  Hoping he might help an hombre out and let me give them a go at a local match.  

 

Anyway, any input would be most appreciated.  

 

Thanks! 

 

 

 

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If you aren't going to get the ROA's stick with Pietta's.  I just picked up a pair of tuned Pietta Marshall's from Prairie Dawg (THANKS Dawg). I used those as a guide, with tips from Colorado Coffinmaker, to put cap rakes in a second set of Pietta Brass frame 44's with 4 3/4" barrels and a set of Pietta 1860s. Both pair are almost as slick as the ones I got from Dawg. The biggest thing is Treso or Slixx nipples. As to conversion cylinders it's really 6 of one 1/2 dozen of the other between Kirst and Howell. If I ever go that route again it'll be Howell and I won't be cutting any more loading gate slots.

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Why not try Frontier Cartridge with the guns you already own?  That’s an inexpensive way to try the waters and you won’t have to spend a lot of time loading capguns during the match.

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PLUS ONE too Tyrel.

 

One thing to keep at the forefront of your mind.  NONE of the available Cap Guns are CAS ready out of the box.  They, regardless of manufacturer, will need proper set up for CAS.  Pietta guns are easier to set up and will result in some really fine CAS guns.  At a minimum, you will need to change out the nipples and Main Spring.  Should you select Uberti built guns, the first thing you will have to do is resolve a truly abysmal Barrel to Arbor fit.

 

Any Cap Gun will have to be set up for a Conversion Cylinder as well.  I have found Pietta guns the easiest to set up as "Convertibles."

 

Once started down the DARK SIDE, Resistance is Futile.  You will be ASSIMILATED!!

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8 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

 At a minimum, you will need to change out the nipples and Main Spring.  

 

Once started down the DARK SIDE, Resistance is Futile.  You will be ASSIMILATED!!

 

Which aftermarket main springs do you recommend? I'm in my infancy with grinding main springs and got one just a bit too light, oops.

 

I tried to leave the DARK SIDE, but the power is just too strong!

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What are you shooting now?

 

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25 minutes ago, Trooper Ozzy said:

What are you shooting now?

 

 

Currently have vaqueros and a 73’ in .357.  I thought that caliber didn’t meet the min required for frontier cartridge.  If not I’ll dirty those up too Haha.  I’d still like a nice set of C&B.  

 

Sounds like some work work will be required with something new.  Will I be better off trying to find something already set up as opposed to brand spankin’ new?

 

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1 hour ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

Once started down the DARK SIDE, Resistance is Futile.  You will be ASSIMILATED!!

 

I get this.  I play bass and that low thump resonates with me.

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1 minute ago, Croc Holiday said:

 

Currently have vaqueros and a 73’ in .357.  I thought that caliber didn’t meet the min required for frontier cartridge.  If not I’ll dirty those up too Haha.  I’d still like a nice set of C&B.  

 

Sounds like some work work will be required with something new.  Will I be better off trying to find something already set up as opposed to brand spankin’ new?

 

 

There is no caliber requirement for Frontier Cartridge/Duelist/Gunfighter or Frontiersman. There is smoke requirement, but > 16gr of BP will take care of that.

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As Tyrell sald, there is no caliber restriction in Frontier Cartridge. I would shoot your current set up and find out If you really like it enough for the extra work involved. Cap & ball requires a lot of effort and has a fairly steep learning curve. I would shoot  Frontier Cartridge first.

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You asked about the Sheriff model guns. I like them. Pietta is a good choice because they're a bit less expensive than the Uberti's are. And in my experience, the conversion cylinders work good in them, with very little fuss. 

 

Here's mine. Both run good and I can switch from Frontiersman and Frontier Cartridge just by swapping the cylinders. On these two pistols, I even changed the grips to Army instead of Navy. My hands are on the large size and the Army just works better for me. This is another plus of the Pietta guns. Parts interchange really well on the newer guns.

 

You should be warned though, once you start down the Dark Path, there's no returning!

 

IMG_1776.jpg

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12 hours ago, Croc Holiday said:

 

Currently have vaqueros and a 73’ in .357.  I thought that caliber didn’t meet the min required for frontier cartridge.  If not I’ll dirty those up too Haha.  I’d still like a nice set of C&B.  

 

Sounds like some work work will be required with something new.  Will I be better off trying to find something already set up as opposed to brand spankin’ new?

 

Start loading.  Look at the big lube bullets to simplify things. http://www.whyteleatherworks.com/BigLube.html

If your rifle is running fine, keep the length the same.

Doesn't matter use a 125, 140, or 158.

Check Grafs for an easy way to get BP shipped. https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/5405

Lee Load All for the shot shells.  Gun Club Hulls, short red wad, 1 1/8 oz shot.

 

BP_38.jpeg

436640.jpg

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I have a pair of Pietta Remington New Model Armys with Kirst cylinders in 45 Colt. Required a little bit of fitting and they work great. I haven't opted for the cut out recoil shields and ejectors, even though the conversions have gates. I just pull the cylinders to reload, easy stuff. I did my own action jobs on them to slick things up a bit. The main springs are factory that I have massaged. I didn't make them real light as I still would like the option to use them as C&B again if I get the hankerin. I must be the oddball, because I've tried the dark side a couple times and even though the smoke and boom are cool, that stuff is filthy!

My '75 Remingtons hated it! Blasting some black shells out my hammer 12 ga was pretty cool though. Has been said, try before ya buy and shoot it up.

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IMG_0287.thumb.JPG.2e4df140ca4c363d2789c7f668df3f43.JPG

These were just Cabela's specials I got on sale and served me well for a season both Frontiersman and Frontier cartridge. 

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A pair of Pietta '58 Army pistols did make for an easier start in SASS Frontiersman for me BUT.  I immediately realized that the grip frame fit was just a bit off, even more so then those on the original RVs which I considered a bit large.  The problem was that I was getting pinched on my middle finger at the top of the trigger guard every time I fired the guns.  After all was said and done I put up with the grips for many years due to the overall ease of using these c&b guns for match shooting.  By  the time I sold them I already had two standard Army Models with six c&b cylinders each plus another pair of Pietta '58  standard revolvers with the ported Kirst cylinders on them.  I was still unhappy that the guns just never felt like a good fit for my hand BUT the Pietta Army and Navy Colts I had tried from Cabellas just never seemed to be anywhere near reliable.  My first big break came when I purchased an old pair of Uberti '60s from a SASS Wire Frontiersman, Prairie Dawg, that had been completely tuned, Navy grips added and had the barls shortened to the nubbins, think they call the style Avenging Angels.   I was now in love with a apir of guns that belonged to me but did wish for some with just a bit longer barls .  Shortly after I started seeing multiple posts on here that Pietta had fixed most of their earlier QC problems so gave them another try and ended up buying six or eight of their '60 revolvers.  I was so pleased with the my new Pietta Armies that I sold the Remingtons and never looked back.   That modifications that I started having performed on the Pietta Armies was to swap all of the Army grips out for Navy sized ones, just like the Ubertis that I got from PD earlier.  I stopped shooting a few years back due to some health issues BUT those unfinished Pietta Colts are still waiting up stars for their dreams of one day shooting in a few SASS matches!    

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Hi Bob :)

 

What did you ever do with those Pietta Marshals you had converted to cartridge??  Those would be super fun!!!

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These are my conversions 2 factory .38s and 2 Walkers with Kirst Konverters. 

Now I’m shooting cap guns having converted the Walkers back to percussion. 

I never had an issue with the factory conversions. 

604F10E1-5D1C-4FF0-9390-336BADC7C1AA.jpeg

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Colorado, I still got them but never really warmed up to them a great deal.  The guns were very dependable and the look was just right BUT the actions were not as smooth as I would have imagined for such a project.  What I had hoped would be my dream project was a pair of short barled '60 Piettas that had a real professional going over by one of the smithys but when I tried to get another pro to match up these particular guns to some cartridge converters it did not turn out well.  Seems there are bounds as what can and can not be performed!  If I ever do shoot again I will focus on going at this from a different angle.  Nothing beats a pair of 44 Armies, for fun, whether c&b or Conversions on shooting days.  And do not forget to take that '60 Henry along double the ooohs and aaaahs.    

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