Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Jeb Stuart #65654

WTC

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Rance - SASS # 54090 said:

From the picture displayed I agree with Creeker..

Poor shooter placement not target..

If shooter took a step to the right..

it looks like ample room for a clean miss..

All in all.. Shooters error..

If ya want to call and accidental discharge..

The shooter did that.. Not target placement..

From the original OP??

The shooter shot too quick..

Shooter wasn't  on correct target when they inadvertently pulled the trigger.. 

But the shooter earned themselves a "P"

Again, on the photo, there was no option for the shooter to move sideways.  The stage instruction gave the shooting position narrowly, as, "from behind the table", which was 22" wide.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rance - SASS # 54090 said:

From the original OP??

The shooter shot too quick..

Shooter wasn't  on correct target when they inadvertently pulled the trigger.. 

But the shooter earned themselves a "P"

The SHB really doesn't call for a penalty for an unintended discharge, unless it goes over the BERM (range rules apply) or hits closer than 10' (SDQ) or 5' (MDQ) to the shooter.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Miss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Jeb Stuart #65654 said:

Mr Jackalope, 

Have you read Range Officers Training Course Level II-- Poor Stage Design Elements, paragraph #5 ?   Targets should be arranged to afford a clean miss, should not be arranged as to create a "P" trap.

 

Yes sir, Mr. Stuart, I do try to keep current with SASS training.  I'm certain my reply to your original post would have been different if you included all the pertinent details.  My apology for assuming you had clearly and completely stated the situation.  

 

Regards,

Jackalope

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

I'm questioning whether the above is poor target placement or poor shooter placement.

 

 

Good point. I put the targets together like that sometimes to discourage folks from shooting before the intended position. It's getting harder and harder to write stages because of the lawyering that goes on after you read em'.  You usta' just be able to write from the table and that was that......now that doesn't cut it and will start a whole conversation of where is that is after you read the stage. 

 

So lets say you shot pistols last from "the table". If you overlap the targets (if shoot before the table) when the stage instructions say FROM the table and from the table there is room for a miss (and the targets are bigger)  then it's a risk reward IMO and all SASS rules apply.  

 

Of course there are many other ways to the same thing but it's one way around that issue. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amen to that, brother! I love the "what if this" and "but you didn't say..."

You know what was intended, don't try to game my stage. just shoot it as intended and have fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Rance - SASS # 54090 said:

From the picture displayed I agree with Creeker..

Poor shooter placement not target..

Targets either overlap from the required shooting position or they do not.  If they overlap for shorter shooters, forcing them to change position, but do not do the same for taller shooters, and the two sets of shooters are competing for time, you have target placement inequity.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Cowboy Junky said:

So lets say you shot pistols last from "the table". If you overlap the targets (if shoot before the table) when the stage instructions say FROM the table and from the table there is room for a miss (and the targets are bigger)  then it's a risk reward IMO and all SASS rules apply.  

 

Including the assessment of a PROCEDURAL.:

Quote

 

 - If a firearm is shot out of sequence or from the wrong position or location, the shooter will be assessed a single procedural penalty. 

 

SHB p.17

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

The SHB really doesn't call for a penalty for an unintended discharge, unless it goes over the BERM (range rules apply) or hits closer than 10' (SDQ) or 5' (MDQ) to the shooter.   

Whether the discharge was intended or not has no bearing. If you fire your gun from the wrong location, miss a target, shoot the wrong target, the SHB does in fact call for penalties.  Usually either misses or a P.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:

Technically, I think it’s .452” 

I shoot .454 out of my colts. Does that mean if I edge the wrong target by .001" then it's a P for me? This is tongue in cheek of course

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay folks here's what the shooter saw in this thread.

IMG_1898.thumb.JPG.d7694acc5b655fc2089d80ac78122f05.JPG

 

Clearly room to make a clear miss on any target.  The "surprise" discharge came as the shooter was transitioning from P3 to the first shot on P4 and happened as the Duelist was recovering from the recoil on P3.  He was surprised because when he heard the "clang" the pistol was pointed at P4.  At least one other shooter said the bullet hit the correct target.  Now the shooter is not real competitive, doesn't take misses or Ps too seriously and just enjoys the sport and the people he shoots with.  This discussion was still going on after two more shooters--we can be lively bunch!

 

Here's what the spotters view may have looked like.

IMG_1897.thumb.JPG.0fb0bc0dbbacebf5c65a5e43a3963594.JPG

 

Did the shooter hit P3 with his 4th shot?  Don't know.  Big question is, was it a miss or a P?  If it's a P for shooting the wrong pistol target that's fine as it would shave 5 seconds off the Shooter's stage time as the idiot shot his rifle from the wrong location after shooting the second pistol.

 

And just in case you're wondering, I am the Shooter!  And, the 5 seconds won't make a bit of difference in the standings for yesterday.  There were three of us fighting for the last place finish.  I think I won!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Crusty said:

Okay folks here's what the shooter saw in this thread.

IMG_1898.thumb.JPG.d7694acc5b655fc2089d80ac78122f05.JPG

 

Clearly room to make a clear miss on any target.  The "surprise" discharge came as the shooter was transitioning from P3 to the first shot on P4 and happened as the Duelist was recovering from the recoil on P3.  He was surprised because when he heard the "clang" the pistol was pointed at P4.  At least one other shooter said the bullet hit the correct target.  Now the shooter is not real competitive, doesn't take misses or Ps too seriously and just enjoys the sport and the people he shoots with.  This discussion was still going on after two more shooters--we can be lively bunch!

 

Here's what the spotters view may have looked like.

IMG_1897.thumb.JPG.0fb0bc0dbbacebf5c65a5e43a3963594.JPG

 

Did the shooter hit P3 with his 4th shot?  Don't know.  Big question is, was it a miss or a P?  If it's a P for shooting the wrong pistol target that's fine as it would shave 5 seconds off the Shooter's stage time as the idiot shot his rifle from the wrong location after shooting the second pistol.

 

And just in case you're wondering, I am the Shooter!  And, the 5 seconds won't make a bit of difference in the standings for yesterday.  There were three of us fighting for the last place finish.  I think I won!

It's a P ... How could it be anything else in this situation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Based on the new photographic evidence, it's a P with no miss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

and, spotters should not been in that position,,

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Image result for eating Popcorn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CRUSTY ;

Good ta see you is still causing discussion and distraction with you're Shooting ....

Sometimes a "Good " P is needed ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the picture that really clears it up. It's a P if he hit the wrong target because there is plenty of room for a miss. If the spotters where standing like you said you need better spotter's that are more involved. If the spotter's were (in a bad position) and aren't sure what target he hit you would have to give the benefit of the doubt to the shooter.....unless someone clearly saw the P. 

 

IF the spotter's are sure he hit the wrong target with the correct gun it's a P.......it's doesn't matter if it was a AD or whatever that's why they took "intent" out and replaced it with just the facts of what happened. That way we just score you on what actually happened rather than trying to figure out how to score people on what they were thinking. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whether he hit the right or wrong target quickly became irrelevant, because after shooting the pistols, he picked up the rifle and shot from the wrong position, earning a clear and incontestable "P".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

Whether he hit the right or wrong target quickly became irrelevant, because after shooting the pistols, he picked up the rifle and shot from the wrong position, earning a clear and incontestable "P".

 

The original OP never said anything about the rifle being shot from the wrong position..

Hence :wacko: they earned their "P" from the pistol sequence before the rifle..:mellow:

 

Rance ;)

Just sayin' :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

Whether he hit the right or wrong target quickly became irrelevant, because after shooting the pistols, he picked up the rifle and shot from the wrong position, earning a clear and incontestable "P".

 

Thanks J-Bar for grinding that fact into an open wound!  Of course if my close personal friends would not have laughed so hard with their coaching and cajoling I would have still screwed up!

 

Can't wait to see who won last place!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Crusty;

Them folks Ya shoot with are some of the most tolerant Ner -Do -Gooders and Kindest out there ..... They encouraged me to shoot clean both days ,,,, the first time I shot in Montana .....

As for giving you the Gears ,,,,,, Just Say " Thank- Yee " and take da gears ,,,, they might come in handy as not all Cowboy drive Trucks with Auto's .....

Hope ta see Ya down the Trail ,,,, fer da Creeks all dry-up ....

 

And tell that old Koot Jeb ,,, Howdy ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Will do Jabez!  Hope to see you this summer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.