Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022 Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Anyone have a safe load for a 45-70 Sharps rifle using Unique for a 525 grain lead bullet. I am looking for about 1050 fps or so. Somehow I am thinking that a suggested load of 13.8 grains may be a mite high. See what shooting Black powder will do to you, when you have to have a smoke-less load you are up a tree. Land owner is afraid of fires from black powder in the heavy grass land (hog hunting). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 My 3rd Edition Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook doesn't list any loads with that heavy a bullet. The heaviest they list for the 1886 Winchester & 1895 Marlin is 420gr. where the range for Unique is 11 & 13.5... So yeah, I'd say 13.8 for a 525 bullet is too stout. Their listing for the Ruger #1 & 3 shows a 464 grain bullet with charges between 10 & 14.8 grains of Unique. All show using a dacron wad over the powder. If your rifle is an original Sharps, I'd be VERY careful about much experimenting with smokeless powders. And my 4th Edition of that same loading book doesn't list any recommended loads for Unique in the 45-70... at any of the 3 levels of their "safe for use in" listings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Why not use APP? No flames and no fillers to catch fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 Do not use a filler-great way to 'ring' the chamber. I have never loaded that heavy of a bullet in .45-70 with Unique. You would do well to consider real BP........ You want more than 1050 fps. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 If you have to use smokeless you might consider Accurate 5744. I realize that isn't what you ask for but I have used it in years past and it makes some decent lightish recoil loads and it has load data for that heavy of a bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 I stopped using 5744 because of all the unburned powder left in the bore. OP-Who made your Sharps? OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex M Rugers #6621 Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 I betting Shiloh. Rex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022 Posted May 31, 2019 Author Share Posted May 31, 2019 DING DING DING Rex is right... Rex I do love that rifle. Thank you again! OLG - The rifle is a Shiloh I bought it from Rex. OLG The landowner insists that I not use BP he is scared of a fire. The grass is 2 - 5 foot tall and it is drying out. He usually cuts for hay, but this year he is letting it go to till under in the fall. Right now he has hogs going crazy. I figure I can hit a few with the heavy bullet at the range I will be shooting at - 10 feet to 100 yards. Beyond a 100 there is no way to see anything. Tyrel Cody -I used to use 5744 but in my Pedersoli but there was too much unburned powder left. I went with Unique and or IMR 4198. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 M'Bill-Have you checked into commercial .45-70 ammo, to remove any doubt for the landowner? OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 A quick Google search indicates people using 9.0 - 13.5 with heavy bullets like that. I wouldn't. 5744 is dirty burning, but this is what it was made for. Here's an old post on the Shiloh Rifle forums - I see Lumpy's name there several posts down from this one. Read the 3rd line in the second post here: http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18584 THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A TYPO, DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT IT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 I’ve shot tons of 330 and 405 grn bullets out of Marlin with 14.2 Unique. I just got a Shiloh Sharps. 535 Grn bullet with 15.0 Unique is 1150 FPS. Mild load, much gentler than a mid-range 4198 load. Seemed to work well. I shoot my Win 76 45-60 with a 305 grn bullet 12.0 Unique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 You might want to look at some of the slower-burning powders. IMR3031, and I've seen some listings for IMR4831, believe it or not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 31 minutes ago, Hoss said: I’ve shot tons of 330 and 405 grn bullets out of Marlin with 14.2 Unique. Lessee here... tons, plural... two tons = 4000 pounds... times 7000 grains per pound = twenty eight million grains... divided by 330 = around 84,850 bullets... 14.2 grains per load... times 84,850 = 1,204, 870 grains, divided by 7000 = 172+ pounds... Actually, for a serious shooter, over a few years and three or four rifles, that's not really out of the realm of possibility. Just yankin' yer chain, Hoss. But not much, cuz it looks completely doable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted May 31, 2019 Share Posted May 31, 2019 1 minute ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said: Lessee here... tons, plural... two tons = 4000 pounds... times 7000 grains per pound = twenty eight million grains... divided by 330 = around 84,850 bullets... 14.2 grains per load... times 84,850 = 1,204, 870 grains, divided by 7000 = 172+ pounds... Actually, for a serious shooter, over a few years and three or four rifles, that's not really out of the realm of possibility. Just yankin' yer chain, Hoss. But not much, cuz it looks completely doable. Well, I am on my 3rd 8lb jug of Unique. Plus a couple of 1 pounders. And I dont use it for Shotgun or 38 sp. 38-55, 45-60, 45-70 now I’m fretting about it in my sharps with the heavy bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Monger Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 I use 5744 for smokeless loads in 45-70 and 45-120. It works pretty well at around BP equivalent performance. For serious work and shoulder punishment 4198 is outstanding in rifles that can take it. Everything else gets GOEX. Unburned cereals of powder in the barrel shouldn’t bother you unless the load is erratic, inconsistent or temperature sensitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffield, SASS #23454 Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 IMR 3031 is your hero in the 45-70. I have used it in a Pedersoli Sharps and Rolling Block with good results with all bullets from 385gr to 525gr. A case full of IMR 4831 will work well enough, but leaves a lot of unburned kernels in the barrel. Good Luck, Duffield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 5744... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horace Patootie, SASS #35798 Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 I used 5744 in my 50/140. I requested information from the powder manufacturer on loads for that caliber and received load data from them. Bullets were stated to be 685 grain but turned out to be 720 grain. I needed a long bullet for that chamber. It is a Pedersoli made Rolling Block. Loaded cartridges are 4 inches long. I haven't shot it in years but would like to try it with BP. Horace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Crimes Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 17 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said: If you have to use smokeless you might consider Accurate 5744. I realize that isn't what you ask for but I have used it in years past and it makes some decent lightish recoil loads and it has load data for that heavy of a bullet. I am using an Aussie equivalent for this powder (AR2205) in my Pedersoli sharps and it seems to work pretty well. I am using 22gr behind a 535gr proj for around 1140fps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022 Posted June 1, 2019 Author Share Posted June 1, 2019 Well I didnt blow up the gun using the larger load. BUT the chrono gave the velocity as 1067 for 20 shot average. The primers were still rounded at the edges of the pockets and the firing pin indention was not deeper than any of the BP rounds I have fired. I dont know at this point.... I do think it is time to contact the manufacturer and see what their thoughts are. Thanks for all so far... REX my eyesight is deteriorating and after the DR visit yesterday the best he could get me to is 20-25 and he thinks I need to bite the bullet (no pun intended) and go ahead and do the cataract surgery.... Now I wish I had bought the scope too.... Hope your wife is doing well and all the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Well, I broke down and bought a pound of 5744. I think I’ll try 22grns with a 535 bullet. Btw, these were my first shots out of the Shiloh at 100 yds using the Unique load Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 Hoss, 3-4" at 100 yds needs some tuning. How much Unique did you use? With smokeless-You should use a firm roll crimp. Also-Plot your shots. Like which one is the CBS. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 2, 2019 Share Posted June 2, 2019 On 6/1/2019 at 5:45 PM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Hoss, 3-4" at 100 yds needs some tuning. How much Unique did you use? With smokeless-You should use a firm roll crimp. Also-Plot your shots. Like which one is the CBS. OLG No doubt some work to do. But those were my first shots with new rifle. I shot it a few rounds when I first got it, but this was my first real range trip. I was using 15.0 Unique. With a roll crimp. 1142 FPS on first shot, but then mt chrono went off line. I think it was too windy for it. I also loaded some 4198. It’s was quite a bit stouter load according to my shoulder. I picked up some 5744 to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Back the Unique load down to 14.0-14.5 gn, and give it a go. What pull weight is the release trigger set at? OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 On 6/1/2019 at 3:59 PM, Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022 said: Well I didnt blow up the gun using the larger load. BUT the chrono gave the velocity as 1067 for 20 shot average. The primers were still rounded at the edges of the pockets and the firing pin indention was not deeper than any of the BP rounds I have fired. I dont know at this point.... I do think it is time to contact the manufacturer and see what their thoughts are. Thanks for all so far... The 45-70 Cartridge will take chambers pressures in excess of 60,000 PSI and show none of the excess pressure signs you referenced. The action on your Sharps will fail long before before you are even close to the loads that a modern Ruger #1 or #3 can easily handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 12 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said: The 45-70 Cartridge will take chambers pressures in excess of 60,000 PSI and show none of the excess pressure signs you referenced. The action on your Sharps will fail long before before you are even close to the loads that a modern Ruger #1 or #3 can easily handle. Not true in BP era guns. Oh-HECK no in a rolling block.......... Shiloh '74's has exceeded Ruger #1 in HP White Lab destructive testing. The Sharps '74 is one of the strongest single shot receivers ever made. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 On 6/1/2019 at 5:45 PM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Hoss, 3-4" at 100 yds needs some tuning. How much Unique did you use? With smokeless-You should use a firm roll crimp. Also-Plot your shots. Like which one is the CBS. OLG Lumpy, this one mo Betta! 200 yds. 25 grns 5744. My chrono still not working but I’m guessing 1150 or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 Now go for 10 rnd groups. Looks like you're on the 'rite' path. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326 Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Just a hole bunch off topic, but do hope you know that a hog is built different than a deer as far as the vitals go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022 Posted June 9, 2019 Author Share Posted June 9, 2019 Here in Texas we just give em "head shot" Seems to be pretty effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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