Question on reloading 44-40 black powder cartridges

[Larabee]

Good Afternoon Pards,

I'm switching from reloading my 44-40's with 25 gn of FF and half of a lube wad and some grease cookie to a big lube bullet lubed with spg and a filler... still wanting to use about 25 gn of FF black powder. Just need some options for the filler and approximately how much to put in  ? I'm sure it will be trial and error. Will be shooting in a ubert 73 rifle. Thanks for any info. 

Larabee 

[Tyrel Cody]

5-10 gr of Lizard Litter, you'll have to experiment just a bit.

 

Zilla Snake and Lizard Litter, Aspen, 24 qt. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007DI163C/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_L8b7CbWZSD444

[Nickel City Dude]

When I was shooting BP in my 44-40 I loaded it with 25gr or 3F (Goex) and 5 gr. of Cream of Wheat (COW).  I also found that the Federal LPP worked best.  I shot it out of an 1860 Uberti Henry.

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

I used some caulk backer rod when I did this once for my daughter's loads. Just cut a bunch up, put in the shell. I had to switch back when she complained that they didn't seem like real loads anymore.

[Sixgun Symphony #62632]

I used to get good results with the 200gr Lyman 427666 cast bullet over 33gr volume Pyrodex P in Winchester brass and CCI primers. I used to lubricate the cast bullets with Lyman Black Powder Gold lubricant. I did not have to fuss with grease cookies, fillers, or wads and that saved time on reloading.

 

[Crisco]

+1 for caulk backer if you need to use filler.  Vaporizes upon firing and I have never heard of it compromising loaded rounds.

[Warden Callaway]

I found something much better. U-Haul packing peanuts.   They are not plastic but foamed corn starch.  They are biodegradable. They feel like puffed paper.

 

https://www.uhaul.com/MovingSupplies/Packing-Supplies/Biodegradable-Packing-Peanuts/?id=730

 

I started using them as filler in shotgun loads.  I got to cutting them in 2 or 3 or 4 and using them as filler over my BlackMZ loads. They cut easaly with just scissors.  

[Yul Lose]

35 minutes ago, Crisco said:

+1 for caulk backer if you need to use filler.  Vaporizes upon firing and I have never heard of it compromising loaded rounds.

3/8” or 1/2” for .45 Colt?

[Larabee]

Anyone got a pic or link for the caulk backer rod ? Not familiar with that 

[Crisco]

1/2” is what I have used for .44-40 and .45 Colt, cut into roughly 1/2” sections.  You can find it in 20’ lengths in the screen door/window section of the hardware store.  Looks like 20’ gray licorice whips.  If I did this right a link to some carried by Home Depot is below.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Frost-King-E-O-5-8-in-x-20-ft-Polyurethane-Caulk-Saver-C23H/202262332?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal2_rr-_-206783276-_-202262332-_-N

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Hi Larabee:

Here's a link to Captain Baylor's page showing how he uses caulk backer rod.

--Dawg

http://www.curtrich.com/bpsubsdummies.2.html

[Texas Lizard]

11 hours ago, Larabee said:

Good Afternoon Pards,

I'm switching from reloading my 44-40's with 25 gn of FF and half of a lube wad and some grease cookie to a big lube bullet lubed with spg and a filler... still wanting to use about 25 gn of FF black powder. Just need some options for the filler and approximately how much to put in  ? I'm sure it will be trial and error. Will be shooting in a ubert 73 rifle. Thanks for any info. 

Larabee 

Add more black powder...And don't worry...

 

Texas Lizard

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

A bazillion years ago I tried adding a little bit of corn meal as filler to my Black Powder loads. I would pour in as much powder as I wanted, then fill the case with the corn meal until it would be compressed about 1/16" to 1/8" when the bullet was seated. I stopped bothering because it was extra work adding the corn meal than just filling up the case.

 

With an Uberti rifle, you will not feel the extra recoil of a full case of FFg instead of a case with some filler in it.

 

The only reason I have found for adding filler is if you want to save powder.

 

Not worth the extra effort to me.

 

Particularly not with a Big Lube bullet lubed with SPG.

[Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326]

14 hours ago, Larabee said:

Anyone got a pic or link for the caulk backer rod ? Not familiar with that 

 

 

 

Look where they keep caulk .  It is used to take up space in gaps to big around windows or doors for the caulk. Any lumber store should carry it or even WalMart.

[Bailey Creek,5759]

I use Goex 3F then Corn Meal. I like how the Corn Meal packs hard in the casings . On top of the Corn Meal I put a wad made out of Cereal Boxes. I shoot 44 WCF in a 24 inch Barreled 66.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

I use fine granulated activated charcoal (like water filter charcoal) when I need a filler for BP.  IT NEVER packs hard with time (which raises pressures), it crunches just like BP does when you seat a slug, it adds no plastic to the fouling, it's a component of BP itself, and it adds no breakfast cereal smell.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

I found a bunch of old filler loads in my cabinet, like 2-3 years old. They failed to go bang. I pulled them apart and the powder and COW was one solid crusty plug.

Not worth the effort if you ask me. Shoot 1 f if you want a light thumping full case load.

 

I do like the idea of GJ with charcoal......

[Woody Shootem, SASS # 24816]

I use 8 gr. of Cream of Wheat over top of 25 gr. of Goex FFFg, topped with a Mav Dutchman Big lube bullet.  Been using that combination for about 8 years or more.  I set up my progressive pressive to dump in the FFFg, then the next stage adds the 8 gr. of Cream of Wheat.  You may need to experiment a little, but this load has worked great for me.

 

Good luck.

[Bull Skinner]

I've tried em all in the last twenty years....except the charcoal. Caulk backer rod is the perfect filler, no muss no fuss. In 44 WCF it fills that bottle neck transition perfectly and disappears on firing

[Bull Skinner]

23 hours ago, Bull Skinner said:

I've tried em all in the last twenty years....except the charcoal. Caulk backer rod is the perfect filler, no muss no fuss. In 44 WCF it fills that bottle neck transition perfectly and disappears on firing.

 

[Bull Skinner]

Yul, 1/2" for 44 and 45, 3/8" for 38.

[DirtyMusket]

On 5/28/2019 at 5:44 PM, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

I use fine granulated activated charcoal (like water filter charcoal) when I need a filler for BP.  IT NEVER packs hard with time (which raises pressures), it crunches just like BP does when you seat a slug, it adds no plastic to the fouling, it's a component of BP itself, and it adds no breakfast cereal smell.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

Hi I never tried activated charcoal as a BP cartridge filler yet but sounds like a good idea.  Does it work well for bottleneck cartridges too? Does it burn off well?

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Quote

never tried activated charcoal as a BP cartridge filler ... Does it work well for bottleneck cartridges too? .... Does it burn off well?

 

I've never used a filler in a bottleneck cartridge (I don't consider .44-40 to be a bottleneck cartridge that would generate high pressure if a filler turned solid), for either BP or smokeless.  Used to use a little bit of dacron in some smokeless rifle cast bullet loads, but have since given that up, now that powder manufacturers no longer support use of fillers with smokeless powders (see Hodgdon manual, for example).

 

Does activated charcoal burn off well?  I GUESS it does - all I know is there is none left in the barrel.   Lay a sheet out on the ground and see if you catch some when you fire rounds over it.    It does not show visible burning streaks going down range.    Charcoal is of course one of three components in Black Powder, so I expect the activated charcoal to do the same combustion trick as the alder charcoal in the BP does - that is, burn at high speed.   Since the oxidizer (sodium nitrate) in BP is added just at the amount to burn the base charcoal of the powder, there probably is less complete combustion of the activated charcoal filler.   I think "So What?"

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sedalia Dave]

Fine walnut media makes good filler.

[Pigeonroost Slim , #36403]

Keep it simple.  When using the PRS style boolits (Mav Dutchman version in your case -- pun intended) You place your desired charge of Holy Black in the case, then place the boolit next to the case with the "cannalure" groove at case neck and take note of how much space you have between that charge and base of the boolit.  You then add your filler (I highly recommend "Quaker Quick Grits (QQG)"  (don't cook them ;-) to fill the gap plus enough more to get your desired compression.  Best compression varies some given the brand of powder.  Generally, all black powder needs firm compression; but higher quality seems to require less for.  For fast action shooting where minute of sweet pea is not a concern, just make sure you have some decent compression and all will be well.  If you use a compression die, make sure you do not create a void between the grit layer and boolit base.  NO AIR GAPS.  Keeping it simple, just compressing reasonably with the boolit during seating works very well.  The QQG will form a very solid mass over the powder that is quite hard or firm, but brittle.  Makes for a very consistent load that does not contaminate the stored ammo.

 

prs    

[DirtyMusket]

Thanks, I just have an old French Gras 1874 I never fired yet and don't want to fill up the whole case with 80+grains of black powder just yet (what the standard was in 1870’s), want to try 70 grains first but need a filler for the bottle neck cartridge.  70 grains fills up to below the neckline so looking for a filler up to the neckline at least that won’t solidify and create an obstruction or pressure spike