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Church Key, SASS # 33713

A SASS Member Demonstrates Being a Jerk

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This is a brief tutorial on how a SASS member being a complete jerk can screw things up for a club they don't even belong to, and how to create some long-term negative consequences for the club.

 

As background: I belong to a club that has run a state match for many years. One thing they attempt to do is have really nice door prizes for all participants. A whole lot of membership efforts are tied up in soliciting prizes from vendors. These include really super gifts from companies such as Dillon and Rugged Gear, plus many local businesses, primarily gun shops. One local shop (a very successful father/son operation) annually donates several hundred dollars in gift certificates. They have done this for many (10+) years.

 

Anyhow, an out-of-state SASS participant wins a $60 gift certificate as a door prize. He returns home and attempts to order something on-line. This shop does not have an internet presence as they do a good face-to-face business in a fairly rural area. Apparently the SASS guy has harsh words with the shop about being in the 19th century, etc. and then sends them the certificate with a very caustic note to basically stuff it. The club was never contacted by the SASS participant and knew nothing of the issue, until a member went to solicit the shops assistance for the 2019 state match to be held this fall. They were informed by the gun shop that their extremely nasty experience with the SASS member is causing them to cease supporting the club/SASS.

 

The club is sending a thank you note to the gun shop for their past service, and then just forgetting about the matter, as it is, in the overall scheme of things, a petty issue.

 

I guess the real lesson here is: “No good deed goes unpunished.”

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Sad. Maybe local club members can make an extra effort to spend a little money in that shop and take the time to reconnect with the shop owner.  Seems terrible to loose the relationship over something like this. 

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Two wrongs don't make a right!

So we hate all cops because of one bad cop? The owner of the gun shop needs to grow up too!

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49 minutes ago, Savvy Jack said:

Two wrongs don't make a right!

So we hate all cops because of one bad cop? The owner of the gun shop needs to grow up too!

YUP!!!!  SCJ

 

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 You look at the bad Customer and I look at the bad business man  both need to grow up .

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Hmmmm...  out-of-towner is definitely a jerk, & maybe local business owner just needed an excuse to drop sponsorship.  He probably figured out that local spent more w/on-line retailers than local business.

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If I win a gift certificate from a local business at an out of state match,  I'll find a local shooter to give it to.  I've done this several times, but, with my luck, I usually don't win anything.

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1 hour ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

If I win a gift certificate from a local business at an out of state match,  I'll find a local shooter to give it to.  I've done this several times, but, with my luck, I usually don't win anything.

Yeah, but there was this one time,  at band camp, in Florida, when you bought one raffle ticket and won a Dillon 650! ;):lol:

(Just trying to keep the record straight)

 

Kajun

 

 

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Wow Church Key. That is pretty poor doings on the competitors part. Sorry to hear this. Good shooting with you yesterday!

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I’m surprised some of you folks find fault with the shop owner. He was solicited and donated to the local clubs event. Wrongly treated by a jack ass and decided he would not deal with that garbage again. The fact that the club didn’t find out about it until a year later when they came around with their hand out tells something of how much the club supported the shop. Works both ways! Still, a very sad story.

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Unfortunate as it is, Look at the irony:   A person that dress's up as a 19th century cowboy is mad that someone is not part of the electronic age.

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2 hours ago, Lead Monger said:

I’m surprised some of you folks find fault with the shop owner. He was solicited and donated to the local clubs event. Wrongly treated by a jack ass and decided he would not deal with that garbage again. The fact that the club didn’t find out about it until a year later when they came around with their hand out tells something of how much the club supported the shop. Works both ways! Still, a very sad story.

This is what I was think'n:excl:

 

The shop owner did no wrong.

The AH in question needs to be outed, so others know of what they are dealing with.

The club dropped the ball with no follow up 'thank you' or such to this sponsor.

OLG

 

 

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We lost a long time Big Name National sponsor that gave us many thousands of $ in prizes over the years.  One of our members decided to write a article about our annual match and submit it to the Cowboy Chronicle. He didn't let any of the officers know that he was doing it. Well, it was printed... it was a nice article, except that the Big Name Match Sponsor was not even mentioned! I received a call from them pointing out that they were not even mentioned. I hadn't even seen the article and didn't know what he was talking about.... No amount of apologizing could save things. They dropped us. It was a big loss. 

 

Snakebite

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That is sad Snakebite. It prove that the cohesiveness of a group is very important.

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I usually don't comment further on a post that I originate, but I'd like to add a couple of clarifications, based on some responses.

 

A 3X5 card is handed out with each door prize and a request made then to thank the donator. Pens are available and a jar provided to drop the cards into. These are then sent to each contributor right after the match. The note sent by the jerk to the gun shop was written on a 3X5 card and mailed to them in a business envelope.

 

We shoot on Sundays when the shop is closed, so it's doubtful the shop owners have a clue who the SASS or club members are as we are never in there wearing our shooting duds.  I go in there a lot, but they know me as an IDPA shooter as several of their employees also shoot IDPA. 

 

The club POC went into the shop to request contributions 7 months after the match. That's when he got the bad news. The shop just never contacted the club before then.

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I would like to chime in from the business owner's perspective. I own my own business. We are a body shop and you can ask any of my pards, if I am not shooting, I am working. I get solicited multiple times a month to sponsor this or asked for a donation to that. Folks, those sponsorship and donation dollars have to come from somewhere. They come from the bottom line. You know what else comes from the bottom line? The owner's paycheck. When I donate $50 or $100, that is $50 or $100 that I don't have to pay myself. I am assuming the gun shop owner is in the same boat. His generosity has gone unthanked from shooters in the past and then this time around, he is insulted by one. I would yank my support as well. As small business owners we work more hours in a week than most do in a month, we don't qualify for things like workers compensation or unemployment so if something happens we are a$$ out and most frustrating of all, there are many times when we don't take a paycheck because the money is going to pay employees or suppliers. Being a business owner is no walk in the park, that is why the vast majority of you are employees and not entrepreneurs. I would be doing whatever I could to make things right with the gun shop owner and his son and I would be banning the ass hat who caused the problem from any future shoots.

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As a former small business owner myself I agree with Monte. Monies that are donated come straight from the businesses bottom line. As far as the previous post that “the shop just never contacted the club before that “ why would someone donating something to a group that seems to only show up with their hand out once a year have any obligation to inform that group they have an AH in their midst? I donated on average 3-4 thousand dollars each year to various organizations in cash, advertising, livestock feed, dog food, bird seed, grass seeds etc. for their events. Add in another 2 thousand for animal shelters, discounts to young people who were raising 4-H animals, churches for community gardens etc. My expectation was that my business be acknowledged as a sponsor (how ever briefly) and nothing more. I can only think of one group that did not send a thank you note or representative within a short time after their event to let me know how things went, that seems a very simple courtesy in my opinion and I was glad to help in their future endeavors. 

You want your sponsor back? Time for your club to get busy and earn back his trust that he is supporting a group that deserves his money.

 

Regards

 

:FlagAm: :FlagAm: :FlagAm:

 

Gateway Kid

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As for the SASS member who acted like a Jerk,  I would ask his side of the story and then respond appropriately.

 

If the SASS member indeed was a Jerk to a Vendor/Sponsor, I would let him know they are no longer

welcome to the club match.

 

If I were the Vendor/Sponsor, I would continue, or cease,  my sponsorship based on the actions of the club in

reference to their actions with the Jerk.

 

For those of you who are not a Vendor or Sponsor of a match, be reminded that it can be expensive, as mentioned

above.

Sponsorship of a Side Match can be $50-$75 or more.   Donating a gift or raffle item can be $20 or $500.

Even a donation of a Henry .22 rifle at dealer cost can be a pretty penny, especially if its a Golden Boy or Silver

Boy model.   And then add into it a few hours work for mods and trigger work and it adds up.

 

Getting insulted, verbally abused, etc....  would probably make ANY vendor think twice about participating

in future events.

 

..........Widder

 

 

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:ph34r:   AMEN to the above three posts.  I try to support local events to the extent possible, but the $$$ comes directly out of my pocket and off of MY TABLE.

 

I am glad to say that nearly all of the recipients have brought in 'thank you' letters or other acknowledgements.

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About the OP, I would trade or give the certificate to a local shooter. Or, I would just toss it  No need to trash someone for their generosity.

 

About Snakebite's comment. Shame on the vendor. The shooter wrote a nice article about things that were memorable to him or her. That vendor was probably only memorable to people who won what the vendor donated and the match organizers.

 

Thoughts on Bad Prizes

  1. I  traded a nice pair of leather cuffs that were too big for a certificate (names and products are not given to protect...) I talked to the donor to try to arrange redemption. He told me I should get so-an-so to redeem it instead.  (I didn't and still have the certificate. This was about 15 years ago.)
  2. At an August match, I won a Christmas Cheese and  Other Stuff box from Hickory Farms. (I gave it away. I would have not eaten that. Someone was braver than I was.)
  3. I won a man's vest. It was raveled at the seam, dirty, and the gold buttons had the gold mostly worn off. (I threw it away. I wouldn't think of giving it to charity.)

I still wouldn't dream of writing hate mail to these donors. IMO, they were much more deserving of it than the vendor in the OP, who, it seemed, gave a reasonable donation.

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Situation I recently encountered involving a vendor.  These are the most basic of details:

Vendor wanted to vend at our match and was turned away.  We felt the product was not a good match for selling at a cowboy shoot.

Relative of vendor (not a shooter, but a spouse of one) brought the products and vended out of the trunk of the car by drawing shooters away from other vendors.  

What's the call?

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46 minutes ago, Black Hills Barb said:

Situation I recently encountered involving a vendor.  These are the most basic of details:

Vendor wanted to vend at our match and was turned away.  We felt the product was not a good match for selling at a cowboy shoot.

Relative of vendor (not a shooter, but a spouse of one) brought the products and vended out of the trunk of the car by drawing shooters away from other vendors.  

What's the call?

MDQ

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3 hours ago, Black Hills Barb said:

Situation I recently encountered involving a vendor.  These are the most basic of details:

Vendor wanted to vend at our match and was turned away.  We felt the product was not a good match for selling at a cowboy shoot.

Relative of vendor (not a shooter, but a spouse of one) brought the products and vended out of the trunk of the car by drawing shooters away from other vendors.  

What's the call?

I'd have a talk with the vendor.  If it's something that would detract from the event like flea market junk or something not  pertaining to sass I'd politely ask them to stop. 

 As for drawing away from your vendors,  well people will buy or not buy whatever they want.  It's not up to the club to decide.

  You can't force somebody down vendors row

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13 hours ago, Black Hills Barb said:

Situation I recently encountered involving a vendor.  These are the most basic of details:

Vendor wanted to vend at our match and was turned away.  We felt the product was not a good match for selling at a cowboy shoot.

Relative of vendor (not a shooter, but a spouse of one) brought the products and vended out of the trunk of the car by drawing shooters away from other vendors.  

What's the call?

Told to stop and to leave.........

OLG

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I'm not taking sides in this debate, since I really don't know enough from either side of the equation. What I will say about those that made the bottom line comments, well yeah. Of course it comes off the bottom line. In a business, every penny spent comes off the bottom line. But let's not pretend vendor sponsorship is happening in a vacuum. It's not charity, or at least it shouldn't be. Most people that sponsor these events are considering the donations as advertising expenses. And often times the amount spent compared to what revenue it brings in has now changed that bottom line equations. Take for example a $50 gift certificate I won to Golden Gate Western Wear at an annual match. That $50 turned into a $400 hat, a $75 whamaker shit, and a $60 scully vest. Now I don't know what the profit margin is on each item, but I do know for a fact that the store sold $525 of merchandise to me that I otherwise would never have bought. And that's just the direct spending on that one visit. I have been back a few times since. And I have brought in a few friends, one that bought boots and another that bought a hat. So you tell me, was that $50 a good investment or was it charity that ended up taken $50 off the owners table? That's just one example of many from me alone. Sponsorship items from on site vendors probably see even greater returns on investment.

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1 hour ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

Most people that sponsor these events are considering the donations as advertising expenses. And often times the amount spent compared to what revenue it brings in has now changed that bottom line equations.

 

I can't speak for the clothing/retail side of things, but I can speak for my business. We make about 7% net profit. When you look at that $50 that comes out of the net profit, we have to sell $714.28 to break even on the $50 "advertising expense." Yes, we donate to "advertise" our business and to show support for what we do, but we NEVER make our money back on those donations. I would venture to say that the other merchants are going to be in about the same boat. 

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5 minutes ago, Flatwater Monte said:

 

I can't speak for the clothing/retail side of things, but I can speak for my business. We make about 7% net profit. When you look at that $50 that comes out of the net profit, we have to sell $714.28 to break even on the $50 "advertising expense." Yes, we donate to "advertise" our business and to show support for what we do, but we NEVER make our money back on those donations. I would venture to say that the other merchants are going to be in about the same boat. 

And how much would you expect to spend on other forms of advertising? Newspaper? Radio? Television?

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1 minute ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

And how much would you expect to spend on other forms of advertising? Newspaper? Radio? Television?

We budget $250 a month for advertising and donations. That's $3571.43 in sales revenue needed. Now, if we don't get a return on our money, we stop spending it there. If the folks at the newspaper or the radio station acted like the "gentleman" in the OP, then I would yank my dollars from them in a heartbeat. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Flatwater Monte said:

We budget $250 a month for advertising and donations. That's $3571.43 in sales revenue needed. Now, if we don't get a return on our money, we stop spending it there. If the folks at the newspaper or the radio station acted like the "gentleman" in the OP, then I would yank my dollars from them in a heartbeat. 

 

But it was not the people in the club who acted that way. It was a customer of theirs. So if you advertised on the radio, someone heard your ad, and was then a jerk, you would pull your ads from the radio?

 

And just to clarify something else, we only know what the vendor/shop says happened. We have no story from the shooters side, nor any details of what actually transpired. Because of this I am hesitant to form an opinion based on what we know.

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20 hours ago, Black Hills Barb said:

Situation I recently encountered involving a vendor.  These are the most basic of details:

Vendor wanted to vend at our match and was turned away.  We felt the product was not a good match for selling at a cowboy shoot.

Relative of vendor (not a shooter, but a spouse of one) brought the products and vended out of the trunk of the car by drawing shooters away from other vendors.  

What's the call?

I'm with Phantom here. :o That wasn't very nice of someone to vend things that had previously been turned away (for whatever reason).

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Granted, Allie Mo's experience with inferior or damaged mdse needs to be reported to the match director -- that's just bad business for the match. 

But, back to the original premise, I'm with Widder.  Anybody who cost me a match sponsor would find my match full when his application was received.  

We don't expect "door prizes."  If we get one, it's a nice surprise.  It's free stuff, people, that the sponsors have no obligation to supply.  And if we don't like what we get, what have we really lost?  Give it to somebody who can use it.

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As a former assistant director to one of the most well known IPSC clubs in the nation it was my job to solicit club donations.

That said I put some blame on the club officiating, they should have noted prize was only redeemable locally and not mail order! 

  I had that happen to me at the Steel Challenge I won a bullet coupon that was only good at the vendors shop. I had to sell it at a much reduced value to a guy local to the event! I was NOT happy. 

 I’ve also seen folks win 1911 hammer and sear sets at a Glock match!!  Prizes  don’t always align with the event.

 And you only have one side of the pancake, the shooter might not of even given the vendor any guff?! The shop might have decided the heck with them they don’t even solicit my shop, and made up a story to get out of contributing? Seen that more then once.

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On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 6:46 PM, Flatwater Monte said:

I would like to chime in from the business owner's perspective. I own my own business. We are a body shop and you can ask any of my pards, if I am not shooting, I am working. I get solicited multiple times a month to sponsor this or asked for a donation to that. Folks, those sponsorship and donation dollars have to come from somewhere. They come from the bottom line. You know what else comes from the bottom line? The owner's paycheck. When I donate $50 or $100, that is $50 or $100 that I don't have to pay myself. I am assuming the gun shop owner is in the same boat. His generosity has gone unthanked from shooters in the past and then this time around, he is insulted by one. I would yank my support as well. As small business owners we work more hours in a week than most do in a month, we don't qualify for things like workers compensation or unemployment so if something happens we are a$$ out and most frustrating of all, there are many times when we don't take a paycheck because the money is going to pay employees or suppliers. Being a business owner is no walk in the park, that is why the vast majority of you are employees and not entrepreneurs. I would be doing whatever I could to make things right with the gun shop owner and his son and I would be banning the ass hat who caused the problem from any future shoots.

HI Mike, you are right about donations being costly. Over the years donations have been one of the largest things that has made this game successful. Without the thousands of hours donated by the membership over the years, SASS would never have reached the level that it did. Thousands of dollars in free merchandise and thousands of dollars donated by members and thousands of dollars raised by clubs to support SASS projects, and on and on. All given freely to a private organization. It was amazing how much people would invest just to be a part of the "Happening". Well as things change, those donations are falling off rapidly, and as they do, a lot of belt tightening is going on. Big matches can't expect to receive the support that was once given to them by SASS in the form of Sponsorships.... because they are no longer there.  Without doubt, things are changing. That is totally true of your local club too.  Our local club benefits form member donations to our annual raffle prizes. The membership supplies untold amounts of free labor and in some cases material because the club belongs to them, it is not private. All of this helps to keep the shooters fees down, and keeps our range at the top.  Without donations, things would be pretty grim.... so I try to support those that support us, and encourage everyone to do the same.

 

Snakebite

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