The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 I'd like to make a suggestion, if I may... Join SASS, get some bullets, load em up and go shoot a match. If ya don't like em, try some different ones next match. With cowboy loads, you will not overpressure your revolvers. Unless they're old relics, in which case ya shouldn't be shootin em anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgavin Posted June 3, 2019 Author Share Posted June 3, 2019 I have every intention of joining SASS, the Sac Valley center, the Diamond Dick's range, and a local club. This is predicated on satisfactory Spousal Acceptable Factor, which was positive after attending the match last weekend. We do a lot of things together, and I won't see her left out. I shoot Vaqueros and Marlin 1894, all in the 38 caliber. Over-pressure is not a concern for me with either. I simply want to match the bullet BHN to the load pressure for optimum obturation and least amount of leading. I want a load for the lowest recoil in the revolvers, a load for sufficient knock down energy with the rifle, and use coated bullets. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Bring the wife, get her to shoot even! Lots of women do. I have two daughters that shoot with me. The folks in the Sac area are great! Shot with them when I was at Travis. Again, yer thinkin too much. BHN, obturation... pish posh. And those Vaqueros, you could double-load them (please don't) and they would handle it. Tuco said it best, "when you have to shoot, SHOOT!, don't talk" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Solo Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 I'm not sure how to explain this in a way that you can understand, but the reality is you are taking for gospel something that is not meant to be. Reloading is a balancing act, and for low pressure shooting BHN is the LEAST important factor to consider for both accuracy and leading. In a cowboy load, leading will be caused mainly by poorly sized bullets being too small (gas escaping around the sides), and poor lube choice for the velocities we use. Leading can be more or less 100% eliminated purely by getting the right size bullet and the right lube (hi-tek works great) and even the article you linked says this. For accuracy at low pressure the factors in order of influence will be: 1) The Shooter 2) Mechanical (timing, rifling condition and quality etc) 3) Throat size being proper 4) Powder Charge Consistency 5) Bullet Size Consistency 6) Bullet Weight Consistency 7) Hardness The reason for that is, that hardness is a cover up for other fitment issues (shallow rifling, bad throat size, too small of a bullet). If the bullet is already big enough to fit the rifling, it doesnt need to expand further, it will be forced in to the rifling and make a good seal even if its a bit too hard. The reason BHN became such a big deal is that magnum loads were pushing soft bullets TOO fast and with too high of a pressure. So if you are shooting full bore magnums loads, or +P 38's then I'd say to be sure to worry about your BHN but not because of leading (use a hi-tek or good lube) but more so because you'll be ripping that bullet apart. P.S. I cant speak for the club you went to, but I dont actually know a single shooter that uses 158s in anything but knock downs and even then most people are using 125's for that. Perhaps you were talking to folks who double in IPSC or USPSA where the power factors are much higher and so a heavy bullet under a slow powder causes more of a "push" then a "pop" for recoil impulse, but for cowboy there is no real need as you can just load a light bullet to get the same "push" feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Eye Jim Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 I'm only going to post because I try and keep it simple. I use 700x because that was recommended to me by the reloaders in my club for keeping it simple. It works in both my pistol loads and my shotgun loads. I use 3.6 grains of 700x because I like that I can use the same powder measure for my 38 special, 9 mm and .45 ACP loads. I use 127 gn RNFP poly coated bullets because I don't see the point of having three different loads for the same round(pistol, rifle, knockdown), and this is the bullet and length that seems to make both my Henry Big Boy and Miruku '73 the happiest when cycyling. It makes my reloading very simple, and I'm happy shooting it all this way. having a little recoil as a duelist shooter is a good thing I find. I originally started with 3.0 grns of 700x under 105 grn TFP. The shot well in the pistols just fine, in fact hardly had any recoil, if that is something you're after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 13 hours ago, bgavin said: This last weekend, we attended an Outlaws match at the Sacramento Shooting Center. Allie Mo and the shooters were very friendly and made us feel welcome. We were very impressed by the blazing speed and grace of Doc Shapiro and the other shooters. Every 38 shooter I spoke with uses 158gr RNFP with either Clays or Trail Boss light loads around 3.5 grains. They all spoke to the benefits of a standard bullet weight. After the match ended, I found these 158s very pleasant to shoot. A Missouri RNFP 158gr with 3.6gr of Win WST will get me right at that BHN=12 I'm searching for. Stepping up to 5.5 grains of Universal and the same bullet adds more juice for the 1894 and knockdown targets. I wonder if it's a regional thing, on this coast most use 105gr and 125gr. Some keep a few 158s for knockdowns, but it's been a long time since any of our knockdowns couldn't be easily downed by a .32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, McCandless said: I wonder if it's a regional thing, on this coast most use 105gr and 125gr. Some keep a few 158s for knockdowns, but it's been a long time since any of our knockdowns couldn't be easily downed by a .32 So Cal, Texas and Colorado are the same...158's are generally KD rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 18 minutes ago, McCandless said: I wonder if it's a regional thing, on this coast most use 105gr and 125gr. Some keep a few 158s for knockdowns, but it's been a long time since any of our knockdowns couldn't be easily downed by a .32 ^There it is. 105s provide the softest feel. (That's an opinion. Please don't shoot me if you disagree.) But keep a box of 158s handy if/when you run into a stage with knock downs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Shooting Bull said: ^There it is. 105s provide the softest feel. (That's an opinion. Please don't shoot me if you disagree.) But keep a box of 158s handy if/when you run into a stage with knock downs. Gawd, if you were here i'd shoot yer a$$!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Gawd, if you were here i'd shoot yer a$$!! Bah, those little mouse fart loads you use would just make me mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 59 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said: Bah, those little mouse fart loads you use would just make me mad. Uh, my rounds are full of BP. You'd be dead, on fire and covered in soot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Uh, my rounds are full of BP. You'd be dead, on fire and covered in soot! Thought you used a sub, so probably not on fire; soot and dead though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said: Thought you used a sub, so probably not on fire; soot and dead though. Only in my rifle. Pistols and shotgun real black... I'll shoot him with the shotgun... He's big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 4 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Only in my rifle. Pistols and shotgun real black... I'll shoot him with the shotgun... He's big. He's big, but he falls down a lot. If someone misses at CAS distances it isn't the hardness of the bullet, or weight. It's all on the shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Only in my rifle. Pistols and shotgun real black... I'll shoot him with the shotgun... He's big. NOW you’re talking. If I’m gonna get shot at least make it worth my time. P.S. Why are you planning on shooting me? Did you disagree with the 105&158 combo? And if so, why? Serious question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 49 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said: NOW you’re talking. If I’m gonna get shot at least make it worth my time. P.S. Why are you planning on shooting me? Did you disagree with the 105&158 combo? And if so, why? Serious question. Just joking...cuz ya said "Don't shoot me if you disagree"...so...I figured I'd just be screw with ya...kinda bored today. Building a fence...lightening started happening...coming on the Wire allows me to be ornery. Besides, yer bigger than me. I'm not going to piss ya off. But then...there is the fact that you are a "fall risk"...so...hmmmmmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 On 6/3/2019 at 12:16 PM, Tyrel Cody said: I'd suggest asking the bullet makers you listed earlier in this thread which weight 38s they sell the most of. My WAG is 55% 125, 40% 105, 4% 158, 1% o I was waiting to see this question. It’s a little bit regional however the 125 TCFP and 105 FP are FAR AND ABOVE the most popular (by sales volume) over 158s. Probably, 200 to 1... I do have a few customers who like the heavier load for BP, and the persnickety rifles and, those who have “knockdown loads”. I have gone back and forth with my own personal load for 38s and have settled on 125gr TCFP lead lubed (Bullets by Scarlett - I offer both lead/coated and I prefer the lead ) with 3.1 gr of Clean Shot (Shooters World) for both pistols NMV and my ‘73. The 125 weight is plenty enough for knockdowns, IN MY OPINION. I’ve found it far more important to HIT said knockdown with bullet than have a heavier weight. Its all good! Big hugs!! Scarlett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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