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Tony Crowe

Winchester AA Factory Shells Not Passing Case Check

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I don't normally case check new factory shotgun shells, but decided to so with a new box today.  This was after having some fired shells stick in my SxS at a match this weekend.  In a box of 25 AA shells, ten (10) did not pass.  This seems to be a problem.  Anyone else had this experience?  Should I start checking all shells, new and reloaded? 

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Not an unusual occurrence anymore. Unfortunately Quality Control isn't what it used to be. Check every shell for a SXS, in a'97 you can get away with nearly any factory shell.

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MEC Super Sizer will cure your issues with the hulls

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Posted (edited)

Interesting.  I found a video from MEC that shows it being used on empty hulls being resized.  Any concern about using it on a loaded factory round?

Edited by Tony Crowe

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I developed my gauge for factory AA ammo. It’s by far the least consistent of factory ammo.

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And the MEC sizer posted above will not always cute the issue.

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I use my super sizer on fired as well as load ammo.  Never a problem

 

a good investment is one of those shotshell case gauges.  Does a great job of finding the 'porky' ones among the hulls

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From now on, I think for major matches I am going to start checking each shell. Those that don’t pass will be used for practice. 

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When I get my hulls back after a match I first check to see if I have any pin holes at the bottom of the crimp lines at the month of the case.

 

a quick check of the brass end to see if any of it has turned green

 

If it got stepped on it gets trashed.

 

If I get a bad crimp it either gets broken down or most likely gets a black marker "X" on the brass end so I don't reload that one again--hey, I'm cheap

 

The Win AAs are not what they once were but I still can get a goodly number of reloads from each hull

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Tony Crowe said:

Interesting.  I found a video from MEC that shows it being used on empty hulls being resized.  Any concern about using it on a loaded factory round?

I use both a supersizer and my MEC  on out of spec SG shell (AA). The supersizer fixes the brass but a lot of the time the crimped end of the hull may be bulged. Just run it through the crimp station and that will take care of it (most of the time).  Just remember to either disable the primer feeder or make sure it is empty. 

I keep a 3/4” socket in my gun box so if I find 1 or 2 during a match I can just stick the end into the socket, give it a couple turns and VIOLA! problem solved(usually)

 

Good luck. 

Edited by Too Tall Bob
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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

I developed my gauge for factory AA ammo. It’s by far the least consistent of factory ammo.

+100 for this gauge....I've used one for about 4 years now and it has found a good number of shotshells that looked pretty good but wouldn't pass the gauge test. Those rounds become WB rounds.

 

Kajun

Edited by Krazy Kajun
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38 minutes ago, Tony Crowe said:

From now on, I think for major matches I am going to start checking each shell. Those that don’t pass will be used for practice. 

I keep a gauge in the cart. I gauge as I load my belt.

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Bought a couple of cases of Win AA and had the same experience. Those that went through the case checker I kept. The rest I gave away.

Switched over to Remingtons and all pass the case checker.

Apparently the two piece hulls don't go together at the factory very well.

Just My Humble Experience.  Castalia

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1 hour ago, Tony Crowe said:

Interesting.  I found a video from MEC that shows it being used on empty hulls being resized.  Any concern about using it on a loaded factory round?

 

No issues as it never touches the primer

 

55 minutes ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

And the MEC sizer posted above will not always cute the issue.

 

+100. When I find out of spec AA hulls it is almost always the plastic that is the problem not the metal bases.

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That has been the case for several years now. However I' have a mod 12 that will not chamber AA's about 90% of the time but has never had a problem with Remingtons.

kR

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I check all my AA shells before a  match. The Super Sizer will fix not all but 9 out of 10.

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I reload on a MEC 9000GN using sts or nitro hulls. I have occasionally been told I am ocd but my process is super sizer on empty hulls ~ reload on 9000 ~ chamber checker ~ any failed checks back to super sizer ~ any second fails to practice bin ~ into box ~ at range chamber checker (a different tighter one) ~ any fails into practice bin ~ pass into belt. No problems super sizer on loaded ammo though it clearly says “don’t do that” ymmv

Went to all this after using LNLR AA’s for years and having out of round, incorrectly sized bases, splits down the length of the hull, primers in backward, open crimps leaking shot garbage at about 5% or 6%. Haven’t used AA’s in years.

 

regards

 

Gateway Kid

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4 hours ago, Too Tall Bob said:

 

I keep a 3/4” socket in my gun box so if I find 1 or 2 during a match I can just stick the end into the socket, give it a couple turns and VIOLA! problem solved(usually)

 

Good luck. 

Is that a 6 or 12 point socket?:lol:

 

I also highly recommend the" Boggus" shell checker. Mine gets used on all main match shells, factory or reloads!

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Posted (edited)

I switched about 8 years ago to just using Remington factory loads for clay pigeon shooting, and I save the hulls for cowboy loading.   Got rid of almost all problems with fired hulls sticking in my doubles.  With a subsequent switch from MEC Grabber to Hornady 366 loader, the dimensions got even better, and now I rarely even gauge check my reloads, and never the factory shells (because they get shot where a sticking hull is just an inconvenience, not a stage killer).

 

AAs with the two piece hull / base wad create a ledge inside the shell where the top of the base wad meets the hull wall.  Using anything but a "highly tapered" wad allows the bottom edge of wad to catch on the ledge of the base wad.   When it does, a bulge develops on the outside of the hull, in the plastic wall.  Using very light loads of powder makes the problem pretty common, because the wad seats a little deeper than with standard powder loads.  You can feel and even see the bulge if you watch for it, and the 12 gauge shell checkers will stop with the bulge right at the mouth of the checker if the bulge is big enough.   The Mec SuperSizer, since it resizes JUST the brass, CAN NOT fix the hull when the bulge develops.   Neither will any other loader.   Neither will trying to round up the shell's mouth/crimp area.

 

And, since only double shooters who are trying to reload quickly, using light loads and shotguns that don't eject (AKA - Cowboy Action Shooters) do all the things that cause complaints about the new AA design, Winchester is trying to ignore that they messed up one of the best shotgun hulls when they went to the two piece base and hull.

 

All that, made me switch to Remington STS or Nitro smooth wall hulls.  And toss away any hull that has been stepped on - you just cannot reliably round out a plastic hull so it stays perfectly round.

 

Good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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33 minutes ago, Captain Clark said:

Is that a 6 or 12 point socket?:lol:

 

I also highly recommend the" Boggus" shell checker. Mine gets used on all main match shells, factory or reloads!

Depends if the gun is n SKB or a Stoeger

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At this last weekend wild bunch match, my 97 would not reliably feed win AA shells. Did some measuring and testing with win standard field loads and the rims on the AA were inconsistent where they were consistent on the field loads and the field loads fed reliably. Just more info on AA quality control being poor.

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So instead of fixing bad quality control at the factory - who simply made a telephone to Olin ...

https://www.olin.com/contact/

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I case gauge checked an entire case of Remington Gunclubs the other day sitting in front of the TV, and they ALL passed!  Shooting them up and going to reload them as they do well coming out of my skb 100

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20 hours ago, Major B. S. Walker said:

I check all my AA shells before a  match. The Super Sizer will fix not all but 9 out of 10.

 

My QA / QC wifey checks every one & I use both the sizer & super sizer plus she gauges every one. Bad ones used in practice.

 

Yeeeh, Haw pilgrims.

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Get a hold of Badman Bullets or Cowboy Shooters Supply they have the Boggus Deal checker made by SliXpring products.

 

Big Iron Buster

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3 hours ago, John Boy said:

So instead of fixing bad quality control at the factory - who simply made a telephone to Olin ...

https://www.olin.com/contact/

I did ---- several times. Sent them photos, lot numbers, descriptions, receipts, where purchased, my info, case bar codes etc. Offered to send them the actual rounds but they did not want those shipped to them and I was unclear as to why so did not send. In return got a couple coupons for a free box but when I exchanged those at my local Sportsmans Warehouse the shells I got ----- wait for it ------- of the 50 rounds 4 would not pass a chamber check and one had already opened the crimp and leaked shot. Boxes looked pristine, no damage or bent corners. Passed on those that were usable to a pard and that was the last AA's I have bought.

 

Regards

 

:FlagAm: :FlagAm: :FlagAm:

 

Gateway Kid

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As the old saying goes:  'Change your Brand of Whiskey, I'd change my Brand of Shotgun Shells'

Kid, I kind of expected your reply based on an snotty, negative experience I had with Olin and  two bags of their 300 Win Mag brass.   i swear a 300 lb gorilla stomped on each bag as they came off the production line

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1 hour ago, John Boy said:

As the old saying goes:  'Change your Brand of Whiskey, I'd change my Brand of Shotgun Shells'

Kid, I kind of expected your reply based on an snotty, negative experience I had with Olin and  two bags of their 300 Win Mag brass.   i swear a 300 lb gorilla stomped on each bag as they came off the production line

Heavens to Betsy don’t talk blasphemy about changing your whiskey

Makers Mark, Bulleit, Jameson or just about any decent scotch for me

the actual conversations both voice and email were generally cordial just not helpful. The tone was one of “it is what it is” which kind of gets to me. Like most I just want value for my money, that wasn’t delivered and I moved on. A huge benefit to me was that I had never reloaded shotshells so this provided the impetus to get equipment and open up a new hobby.

Regards

 

:FlagAm: :FlagAm: :FlagAm:

 

Gateway Kid

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I was surprised to discover that there are some Win. AA cases out there with Aluminum heads.  They expand waaaay more than brass, and almost every one of them will stick in a double.  Be sure yours aren't Aluminum.  If they are, give them to a friend who shoots a '97, and buy yourself some good GREEN Rem STS cases, if you can find them.  I've never had an STS in good condition stick in the chamber. 

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Posted (edited)

There are NO shotgun hulls with aluminum heads.   They are steel heads, with some plating of cadmium or zinc or other thin rust preventative coating.   Stick them with a magnet.  You will then understand, aluminum is not a great metal for putting in shotgun hulls..

 

The only Winchester target shells that I've seen with steel heads are the cheap Winchester Super Target shells.

 

Both the Remington STS (green) and the Remington Nitro (gold) hulls work really well.     The Nitro's are loaded to a heavier load from the factory, though.  But once fired, they have the same great performance when reloaded.

 

Good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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On 5/20/2019 at 2:08 PM, Tony Crowe said:

Should I start checking all shells, new and reloaded? 

I recrimp, resize, visually check, and go-no-go Guage test every shell  that has been stored on the shelf for more than a day or two, as I get ammo together for a match.  

I resize with a MEC Supersizer, after recrimping each shell in the original crimp die. 

At the match, I run each round through a Slix tapered die, as I take them off the cart and into my

shotgun belt. 

 

All of that may be excessive/overkill, but the TLC has paid off.  I've very seldom ever had a spent hull stick in the gun, and what few did stick had split on firing.  Careful gun and ammo care has paid off for me with few malfunctions.  My misses have been the real thing, from hurrying faster than my skill level can so far support.   I've never found a pre-match trick, except practice, to cure that.  

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HOWDY; The MEC machine says not for loaded rounds. BUT  I have been doing it to all factory and reloaded shells. Also started trashing all but Remington STS hulls, Like GJ says, his words ring true.

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On 5/21/2019 at 10:34 PM, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

They are steel heads, with some plating of cadmium or zinc or other thin rust preventative coating.   Stick them with a magnet 

My magnet says you are 100% correct.   I even deprimed one to be sure the primer wasn't the magnetic attraction.  But they really do look like aluminum.  Thanks! 

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362

 I shoot double  A shells and no issues I do check them all visually and have put a few aside for just practice.  Bad batches are not isolated to Winchester .

 

:FlagAm:

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