Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum
Sign in to follow this  
leadshot

sharps rifle

Recommended Posts

i have used these forums for quite a while and received a lot of useful information. so i felt i should pass on an experience i just had in purchasing a sharps rifle. about a year and a half ago is saw an add for a pedersoli lil betsi sharps. i thought it would be a nice deer gun in 38-55. i contacted pedersoli info center for more info and dimensions to the chamber and bore so could purchase cases and bullets. they sent me a c.i.p. specification sheet, that is italy's version of saami. they said that they followed the c.i.p. specs. the specification were for a short chamber with a 6 degree transition angle from chamber to bore and a bore of .373 and grove dia. of .379 and a twist rate of 1 in 18. that all looked good so i ordered it. 

i spent last summer trying different loads to get a decent group with no luck. i also noticed lead spatter on the outside of the cases. 

i finally cast the chamber. i found the transition angle from the chamber was a sharp 45 degree angle and it was shaving lead off of the bullets. i also noticed that the camber was not in line with the bore.

i contacted pedersoli customer service and was told to send the gun to their gunsmith in MO. he was very quick and i received the gun back in one week. the following is a summary of his report.

bore: .373

groove: .3795

twist: 1 in 14

bore was tighter in the middle of the barrel

chamber off center not more than .001

chamber shows chatter marks 

chamber is cut for 2.125 brass

he rereamed the camber to center it and polished a radius on the 45 degree angle and polished the tight spot in the barrel.

when i saw the 1 in 14 twist rate i thought he had made a mistake since both the pedersoli web sight and the info center had told me that it was 1 in 18 which is the usual twist rate for the 38-55. i checked it myself several times and i got 1 in 12. i think that is way to fast for the standard 255 grains bullet. 

so now i have a new sharps that cost more than any of may other firearms and it has a patched up chamber and barrel and a inappropriate twist rate. not the match grade barrel i was expecting. 

pedersoli has not even offered to pay the shipping cost of having to send the gun to the gunsmith.

last time i checked the  pedersoli web sight it still listed a 1 in 18 twist rate

if any body has any experience with this twist rate shooting bullets around 255 i would like to hear what groups you have gotten.

i have been trying to find barrel maker that cut rifles and can do .373 bore and .379 groove. this is a very long post hope it makes it out there. there might be others that are having the same trouble and not knowing its the rifle not the loads.

 

 

 

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From looking online a bit, sounds like 1-14 and 1-12 are what's used for heavy bullets in the 330+ range. May want to give those a try instead. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

1/18 is std for .45 cal.

1/12 & 1/14 is normal for your caliber. 

Why don't you shoot it, and see if you really do have a problem? :huh:

OLG

Edited by The Original Lumpy Gritz
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, leadshot said:

i have used these forums for quite a while and received a lot of useful information. so i felt i should pass on an experience i just had in purchasing a sharps rifle. about a year and a half ago is saw an add for a pedersoli lil betsi sharps. i thought it would be a nice deer gun in 38-55. i contacted pedersoli info center for more info and dimensions to the chamber and bore so could purchase cases and bullets. they sent me a c.i.p. specification sheet, that is italy's version of saami. they said that they followed the c.i.p. specs. the specification were for a short chamber with a 6 degree transition angle from chamber to bore and a bore of .373 and grove dia. of .379 and a twist rate of 1 in 18. that all looked good so i ordered it. 

i spent last summer trying different loads to get a decent group with no luck. i also noticed lead spatter on the outside of the cases. 

i finally cast the chamber. i found the transition angle from the chamber was a sharp 45 degree angle and it was shaving lead off of the bullets. i also noticed that the camber was not in line with the bore.

i contacted pedersoli customer service and was told to send the gun to their gunsmith in MO. he was very quick and i received the gun back in one week. the following is a summary of his report.

bore: .373

groove: .3795

twist: 1 in 14

bore was tighter in the middle of the barrel

chamber off center not more than .001

chamber shows chatter marks 

chamber is cut for 2.125 brass

he rereamed the camber to center it and polished a radius on the 45 degree angle and polished the tight spot in the barrel.

when i saw the 1 in 14 twist rate i thought he had made a mistake since both the pedersoli web sight and the info center had told me that it was 1 in 18 which is the usual twist rate for the 38-55. i checked it myself several times and i got 1 in 12. i think that is way to fast for the standard 255 grains bullet. 

so now i have a new sharps that cost more than any of may other firearms and it has a patched up chamber and barrel and a inappropriate twist rate. not the match grade barrel i was expecting. 

pedersoli has not even offered to pay the shipping cost of having to send the gun to the gunsmith.

last time i checked the  pedersoli web sight it still listed a 1 in 18 twist rate

if any body has any experience with this twist rate shooting bullets around 255 i would like to hear what groups you have gotten.

i have been trying to find barrel maker that cut rifles and can do .373 bore and .379 groove. this is a very long post hope it makes it out there. there might be others that are having the same trouble and not knowing its the rifle not the loads.

 

 

 

 

I’ve got some 335 grn .380 cast Bullets. Did not work in my HiWall with 1/18 twist. Might work in yours with faster twist. Pm me your address and I’ll send them to you to try out. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

The standard twist for a Marlin lever gun in 38-55 is 1:18. This twist is standard with most rifle/barrel makers. The 1:18 will handle bullets up to around 275 gr. (normally) 'Course ymmv. John Boy may hop in here. He has had great success with the 1:18 with heavy bullets at distance. My C Sharps was ordered with a 1:14 twist especially for bullets in the 335 gr  range.  It sprays 255 gr bullets. It does very well with the Lyman Postel (330 gr) and the Noe 376-329-RN-BV2-2 breech seated. This is a tapered bullet and weighs 329 gr.

ASSRA (American Single Shot Rifle Association) has a lot of info on the 38-55. Try this calculator:

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Red Cent said:

 

 

The standard twist for a Marlin lever gun in 38-55 is 1:18. This twist is standard with most rifle/barrel makers. The 1:18 will handle bullets up to around 275 gr. (normally) 'Course ymmv. John Boy may hop in here. He has had great success with the 1:18 with heavy bullets at distance. My C Sharps was ordered with a 1:14 twist especially for bullets in the 335 gr  range.  It sprays 255 gr bullets. It does very well with the Lyman Postel (330 gr) and the Noe 376-329-RN-BV2-2 breech seated. This is a tapered bullet and weighs 329 gr.

ASSRA (American Single Shot Rifle Association) has a lot of info on the 38-55. Try this calculator:

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

 

 

 

Shiloh Sharps uses 1/16. ;)

OLG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just looked at this thread last night and thought I'd check my wife's rifle, an Armi Sport imported by Taylor's in 38-55. It too has the 1 in 18 twist, and my bullets as cast weigh in at 244 to 246 Grs.  I hope to be able to get the gun ready for her to shoot in the near future.  She will start with a mild load of Smokeless and move on to the black when she is comfortable with the gun.  The info concerning the twist rates vs. bullet weight should be a real help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

My favorite bullet for the Uberti 38-55 in 1:18 twist that also calculates a high stability in a 1:14 bore. Accuracy is excellent with MOA groups at 100 - 200 and 300yds. Here's a 200yd target with MOA less than 2"image.png.4023cc313f31347711e6c7563130b7d2.png

image.png.446aee35a408054f4b2b5420d0fea2cf.png

Edited by John Boy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you ordered the rifle under the assumption that they would meet the specs that they provided and they did not comply with THEIR specs, then they either owe you a new rifle or a full refund including your expenses.

 

That’s my legal opinion as an engineer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you got that right cypress sam, unfortunately i am an engineer to and not a lawyer. i think i could have gotten a better barrel on an h & r and saved $1600. now i am looking for a barrel maker that can cut rifle a barrel with a .373 bore. i did not want  a project gun this time so i.spent the big bucks, live and learn. thanks for all the replies guys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/19/2019 at 11:33 AM, Noah Cash said:

Just looked at this thread last night and thought I'd check my wife's rifle, an Armi Sport imported by Taylor's in 38-55. It too has the 1 in 18 twist, and my bullets as cast weigh in at 244 to 246 Grs.  I hope to be able to get the gun ready for her to shoot in the near future.  She will start with a mild load of Smokeless and move on to the black when she is comfortable with the gun.  The info concerning the twist rates vs. bullet weight should be a real help.

Try 9.6-10.0 grns of Unique. Works well in my 38-55s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what Hoss said...250g LEE bullet over 9-10g Unique with a 3/4" square piece of single ply toilet paper pushed down over the powder with a pencil. important to keep powder against primer. transport in a box with primer down.

 

this load has won many a LR match out to 400 yards for me........but if the wind is howling....all bets are off!

 

38-55 are extremely sensitive to bullet diameter. you absolutely need to slug the bore for best performance. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.