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CyPhi

Help identifying 1887

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Howdy all

I have recently purchased my first 1887 lever action shoot gun. The gentlemen I purchased it from didn’t have a lot to tell me about its history. 

I have taken pictures if all the visible engraving on it. In the barrel is 12GS 22” 2 3/4.  On the top tang is Cowboy 1887 and on the bottom tang is N5 00110  Made in  China.

 

Can anyone tell me anything about this shoot gun? Who imported it? Year of manufacture? 

47B5B08E-2416-48BA-B39C-98307B78FE6B.jpeg

98D41AAF-66AA-4F54-8D6C-B56489AD30BF.jpeg

265A10D4-7975-48EA-A2B2-4BAA2C2F0F69.jpeg

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Take some shots of the sides of the receiver.

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Posted (edited)

 

Right happy to oblige.  Whatcha got there is a Chinese made '87 copy  :huh:   No need to thank .... anytime  :D

Edited by Colorado Coffinmaker
0ops
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15 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Right happy to oblige.  Whatcha got there is a Chinese made '97 copy  :huh:   No need to thank .... anytime  :D

 

Errr?  Maybe an 87, I'm thinking.  With a crack in the stock behind top tang.

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Really do need to see the rec'r sides.

Did you get the box it came in?

OLG

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Most likely a Norinco.

 

Currently 87's are done by somebody else, and are overpriced tomato stakes.

 

Maybe shoot Coyote Cap an email.  I see you're in Canada, so a phonecall might be a bit much.

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Here are some more pictures to help with the identification.

 

It did notcome with the original box.

1F98D409-ECC8-43F1-B826-995EA76923A4.jpeg

E7878470-4081-451F-884C-E90AED83E737.jpeg

6CCD39E1-A746-4CC4-984A-02B3B06AA97E.jpeg

1F8D6728-3C25-41BC-AB1B-034D32F28EEE.jpeg

D0991945-A4E3-4BC2-92E9-207D4717B252.jpeg

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I'd guess that's one of the early IAC that Coyote Cap had imported; at least it looks like all the IAC's I have.

 

The smallest screw on the side looks to be way out of position(too low) compared to mine. Actually there should be another small one above that's used for a cartridge guide which really leads me to believe it's an early IAC.

 

You probably have a good gun, enjoy!

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Thanks for those observations Tyrel Cody.

It has run fine at the last two shoots with no issues ejecting hulls so hopefully it is second generation. It doesn’t have a load two mod but if I’m not to ham fisted I can get one on the carrier without it dropping all the way down.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/9/2019 at 3:51 AM, Tyrel Cody said:

I'd guess that's one of the early IAC that Coyote Cap had imported; at least it looks like all the IAC's I have.

 

The smallest screw on the side looks to be way out of position(too low) compared to mine. Actually there should be another small one above that's used for a cartridge guide which really leads me to believe it's an early IAC.

 

You probably have a good gun, enjoy!

PLZ see my updated post.....;)

OLG

Edited by The Original Lumpy Gritz

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The barrel looks too long for a Coyote Cap model, both of mine have the 18 1/2" barrel.

 

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All my looking around never found a 22” barrel on any of the ones made in China. Just another piece of information that I couldn’t fit into what I found on the web. I am still hopeful that there is an old timer on the Wire that can fill me me in on some of the history of this firearm.

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2 minutes ago, CyPhi said:

All my looking around never found a 22” barrel on any of the ones made in China. Just another piece of information that I couldn’t fit into what I found on the web. I am still hopeful that there is an old timer on the Wire that can fill me me in on some of the history of this firearm.

 

The Coyote Cap Special models had an 18 1/2" yours is definitely not one of these as they all had "Coyote Cap Special" stamped on the lower left receiver side.

 

Most of the rest of the IAC had a 20" barrel. I don't know about the very early ones but a 22" barrel wouldn't surprise me.

 

You might message @Coyote Cap, SASS Life #14184 and see if he can shed some light on it.

 

http://coyotecap.com/gunsmithingsimplified.htm

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16 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

The Coyote Cap Special models had an 18 1/2" yours is definitely not one of these as they all had "Coyote Cap Special" stamped on the lower left receiver side.

 

Most of the rest of the IAC had a 20" barrel. I don't know about the very early ones but a 22" barrel wouldn't surprise me.

 

You might message @Coyote Cap, SASS Life #14184 and see if he can shed some light on it.

 

http://coyotecap.com/gunsmithingsimplified.htm

TC-After looking at our 3, '87's over including 2, CC race guns.

Those 2 screws are where they should be. The little one next to the larger one is a extractor 'guide'.

The larger is the carrier stop screw.

The missing little screw near the top of the rec'r in the picture, is a shell guide for feeding.

The fact the tang on the SG in the picture is marked 'cowboy' I have not seen before. That's where the serial number is on our 3.

OLG

 

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OLG I could not find any reference on the web to a Chinese made 1887 with the markings like mine. My first thought was the N5 00110 is the serial number and I guessed the N means Norinco andthe 5 means year with the 00110 been the one hundred and tenth gun made that year. If I am right and the 5 is the year of manufacture then I would guess it is either 2005 or 2015. I could not find anything that said the serial numbers ever started with a letter other than CC for Coyote Cap guns. I guess I will never know when it was made or who imported it. I do know that it is a blast to shoot and it is now my go to shotgun for CAS.

 

I can always work it into Cyphi's back story as something he found along the way and kept as payment for attending to the burial of some poor soul who lost his life on the trial. Cyphi would appreciate the same if he come to an untimely end while out observing and recording nature in the new land.

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Ok, so I have kept digging and came across a reference to Norinco model YL 1887L. A clone of the Winchester 1887 that I think started to be made in the early 2000.  From the bit of information I found and some of the pictures I believe my shot gun is of them.

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Onliest thing I can add is the toe angle on the Butt Stock is wrong for the game we play.  Actually need a little negative toe angle  :mellow:

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44 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Onliest thing I can add is the toe angle on the Butt Stock is wrong for the game we play.  Actually need a little negative toe angle  :mellow:

 

Everyone seems to have an opinion on this.  There was much advertisement about how they "had to be cut" back in the day and a lot of shooters bought into it without ever shooting one without it cut. (or even learning to properly run an 87)  Too many different body shapes to say they need this or that across the board. 

 

I disagree with the notion they need to be cut, so there are 2 opinions on the angle of your butt stock. :rolleyes:

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Posted (edited)

What I see from the photos is a Norinco, built at the Shandong #1 plant in Rizhao, China in 2005 and exported to Canada. Norinco products were banned from import to the USA by Sec of State, Warren Christopher during the Clinton Administration, because Norinco was caught selling Nuclear weapons parts to Iran. (Which is still a very bad idea when you think about the threats Iran keeps making towards the USA and Israel).

 

Randy Menn (Owner of Sun City MFG) of Rizhao, China, bought the rights from Norinco and enlisted the help of Interstate Arms of Billerica, Mass. to import the M-87, M-97 and M-99's as an IAC and Interstate Pres, commissioned good ol me to go to the plant in China in 2001 (1st of 4 trips) and work with engineers to build the IAC shotguns into the superstrong and supersafe guns that we all have learned to enjoy shooting in SASS for the last 18 years or so!

 

If you look closely at the photos, you can notice the screw holes are elongated from polishing the upper and lower tangs to remove IAC marking and stampings. Also, the barrel is longer from left over barrels meant for both the M-97 and the M-87 models to be exported overseas. What stopped this from happening right away, was good ol me took a shortcut through building #4 (when going to lunch), and I spotted a huge stack of brand new "Cowboy 97's" (with American Walnut stocks on them, that were meant to be installed only on IAC shotguns). (That was a huge NO NO). My understanding was these 500 guns were to be sent to New Zealand and Canada. (Whow) !! IAC was supposed to get those guns first and absolutely NOT using our American Walnut stocks. I made the quick call to IAC, in Billerica telling them what I saw and the IAC Pres, jumped on a plane to China and put a sudden halt to that shipment. What happened after that, I don't know, except the Communist Supervisor of that plant stopped liking me !

 

Three more trips to China and I never saw that supervisor again - - - I always wondered what happened to him.  On my 2nd. trip I went to the Shandong #2 plant in Linya, China to oversee production of the new M-99 double barrels (Also called 1887 Coachguns stamped on the left side of the barrels). I brought along a set of handbuilt taller hammers for that gun and when I went to see where the hammers were to be cast, I noticed a stack of brand new Colt Cloned doubles (again using our American Walnut stocks). Well, here we go again but this time they were allowed to use our American Walnut wood, I think because of whom was involved (American Company) in building those doubles.

 

The M-87's had problems right away and it makes sense that a lot of the left over and defective frames from 2005 and 2006 were later made into working shotguns for export to other countries and that is why the screw holes look elongated.

 

Sorry to bore everybody - - - I'm retired and have a bit more time to look on the wire for interesting topics - - - - "Coyote Cap"

 

 

Edited by Coyote Cap, SASS Life #14184
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Hey CC, 

 

While you're talking 87s,  can you tell me if a 10 gauge barrel from a 1901 will fit work on an early 10 gauge 87? 

 

Thanks,

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Thanks for chiming in Coyote Cap. I am never bored learning  some more about the history of one of my firearms. I am glad you have the time to peruse the forums and are willing to share your knowledge and experience with us folk. 

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