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Tequila Chase

.45LC & 160GR RNFP & TB powder

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Trying to get a consensus from the group.  When I look up the load data on the Hodgdon website this is what it shows:

160 GR. CAST LRNFP
 
 
MANUFACTURER
Hodgdon
POWDER
Trail Boss
BULLET DIAM.
.452"
C.O.L.
1.500"
 
 

STARTING LOADS

GRS. VEL.(FT/S) PRESS.
7.0 903 8,100 PSI

MAXIMUM LOADS

GRS. VEL.(FT/S) PRESS.
8.5 1018

10,800 PSI

 

 

 

I don't think I need all that (not at the distances we shoot).  I'm using this on both pistol and 1873 model rifle.  

Has anyone gone below 7.0 grains?  I know at some point accuracy will be affected.

 

 

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That's a pretty light bullet for a big straight wall case, hence the powder charge. Heavier bullets require less powder and vice versa. Even at 7 gr you'll likely find this to be a dirty load.

 

Are you loading that round for a rifle, pistol or both?

 

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DO NOT go drop the powder charge so low that less than 70% of the available case volume is used. Trail Boss becomes erratic if there is too little powder in the case and bad things could happen. 

 

You can find the loading formula for Trail Boss on Hogdon's website under reloading references, 

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As others have hinted, Trail Boss is not a good burner when below about mid range on Hodgdon's loading data.  In other words, MORE than the 7.0 grain starting load! 

 

A 200 grain bullet will work well if you are stuck on Trail Boss.

 

A 160 or 170 grain bullet will work with Clays or 700-X or Red Dot (and a few others that are less often used).

 

You are just backing yourself into a corner that has erratic and dirty written all over it.  Especially in cold weather starting 9 months from now.

 

This particular load you are trying to assemble is THE REASON that Adirondak Jack invented the Cowboy .45 Special case!  The 45 Colt case is designed for dispatching cavalry horses or enemy combatants with one shot, and it still wants to shoot that kind of load.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

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Titegroup is Hodgdon’s answer for small powder volumes in big cases.  Please consider using Titegroup Powder in your .45s.  I have used it successfully for years in both .45 Colt and .38/.357.  I have never used Trail Boss because it seems to generate more complaints than Titegroup from those who have tried to use it.

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WHY shoot so 'lite' a bullet in that caliber? :huh:

Makes no sense to me..........

OLG

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I’ve shot trailboss in a .45 colt for a long time. I do not even remember what the grain is. ( maybe 6.0 ) My Dylan press has been set so long ago. I dropped the charge because the misses was borrowing my 45s for a bit. I use a rpfn 200g penn bullet and never had one issue. 

Trailboss is dirty. Never realized how dirty until I shot real black powder which is running cleaner. Go figure. 

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2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

WHY shoot so 'lite' a bullet in that caliber? :huh:

Makes no sense to me..........

OLG

Allows a .45 to be a little more competitive if that's all ya got.

Lighter bullets cost less.

Usually allow for over the top reloads in .45C in a 73

Lower recoil.

Less wear and tear on targets.

Range bag isn't as heavy for wife to carry.

Truck gets better gas mileage not hauling the extra weight.

Hurts your pards less when they ricochet, okay so that could go either way I suppose.

Did I mention less recoil? 

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Up the bullet to a 200gr, and drop the powder to 4.6gr of TB. It's dirty, but consistent down to the high 30s (as cold as it gets here). Out of my 73 I can get under 2 moa with buckhorns at 100 yards of a bench with no bags. The velocity is plenty to stabilize the bullet and it rings steel at 3-4 times standard sass ranges.

 

If I was going to use 160s instead of 200s I'd start probably around 5.5 gr and drop from there to get to where I'm comfortable.

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5 hours ago, Brazos Bo said:

Allows a .45 to be a little more competitive if that's all ya got.

Lighter bullets cost less.

Usually allow for over the top reloads in .45C in a 73

Lower recoil.

Less wear and tear on targets.

Range bag isn't as heavy for wife to carry.

Truck gets better gas mileage not hauling the extra weight.

Hurts your pards less when they ricochet, okay so that could go either way I suppose.

Did I mention less recoil? 

 

@Brazos Bo  that's what I'm trying to get to less recoil = faster target acquisition.  

 

4 hours ago, El Cubano said:

Up the bullet to a 200gr, and drop the powder to 4.6gr of TB. It's dirty, but consistent down to the high 30s (as cold as it gets here). Out of my 73 I can get under 2 moa with buckhorns at 100 yards of a bench with no bags. The velocity is plenty to stabilize the bullet and it rings steel at 3-4 times standard sass ranges.

 

If I was going to use 160s instead of 200s I'd start probably around 5.5 gr and drop from there to get to where I'm comfortable.

 

@El Cubano I've been using 200's but I wanted a round with less recoil so I could get back on target faster.  Which is why I was asking how light of a load without getting a squib.

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7 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Titegroup is Hodgdon’s answer for small powder volumes in big cases.  Please consider using Titegroup Powder in your .45s.  I have used it successfully for years in both .45 Colt and .38/.357.  I have never used Trail Boss because it seems to generate more complaints than Titegroup from those who have tried to use it.

 

@J-BAR #18287  I looked up Titegroup loading data and it shows a higher velocity than TB.

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200 or 160, you aren't going to get much lower recoil than you will at 4.6gr of TB in a 200. 

 

Ify ou really want lower recoil, get c45s cases and drop down to around 3.5 grains under a 160. That's the only way to go lighter as you are flirting with u stabilized bullets and inconsistency with the full size if you go lower.

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4 hours ago, Tequila Chase said:

I looked up Titegroup loading data and it shows a higher velocity than TB.

 

Yes, a bit higher, but I doubt you could perceive a difference in recoil between the two.  The Hodgdon chart was made with a 7 1/2 " barrel so unless you are using long barreled revolvers your velocity will be less.  The loads for your .45 are close to the performance level of a158 grain bullet in .38 Special; if you can tolerate the .38's recoil, the .45 will not be much different.  And Titegroup will burn more cleanly and consistently, and meter well in your powder measure.

 

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Velocities go down dramatically as bullet weight increases. Check out the rest of the tables for 180 and 200 gr bullets. If you can feel the difference in recoil between them in a rifle, you’re a more sensitive guy than I am. 

 

If reducing recoil in your pistols is your primary goal, use a smaller case like C45S or Schofield. Lots more options there that will give you harmonious outcomes. 

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Garrison Joe's advice posted earlier regarding TB with light bullets in 45 Colt cases is spot on!

With 160 / 170  /180 bullets in full length 45 Colt cases with light powder charges, Trail Boss is dirty! On the other side of that coin, when Trail Boss is used in 45 Cowboy cases with the same bullet weights it is much cleaner and performs well. 

After Having put thousands of 160 gr down range in matches as well as Practice, 160gr is better suited for use in 45 Cowboy ( C45S) than 45 Colt! From my personnel observations. 

There are several powders to choose from, and everybody has a favorite for 45Colt.

Ill suggest you try some 180 gr coated bullets and 5.0 700X with a Federal standard or match primer. You won't be able to feel any recoil difference, it's accurate and noticeably cleaner in a toggle gun!

If you haven't tried the coated bullets, get in touch with George at Bang n Clang bullets and perhaps he'll send you a sample pack to try. Once I started using them the results were very noticeable! 

 

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I use TB and 200 gr. bullets works for me

 

Most shooters will not notice any difference in recoil between the 160 gr bullets and the 200 gr

 

I shoot GF and even with 255 gr. bullets and on the clock I don't notice a difference, 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Brazos Bo said:

Allows a .45 to be a little more competitive if that's all ya got.

Lighter bullets cost less.

Usually allow for over the top reloads in .45C in a 73

Lower recoil.

Less wear and tear on targets.

Range bag isn't as heavy for wife to carry.

Truck gets better gas mileage not hauling the extra weight.

Hurts your pards less when they ricochet, okay so that could go either way I suppose.

Did I mention less recoil? 

You left out about a gun filled with blow-back residue. :lol:

OLG

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I've been shooting 160's in my .45's for quite a while. I was using 700-x until the arthritis in my wrists made me quit. In order to use lighter powder loads, I went to .45CS for my pistols. I was using 3.9 grains of Trail Boss for a while, but I was getting some erratic loading from my Dillon 550 with those little donut critters so I switched to Titewad, which feeds really nice, has the same felt recoil as the TB loads, is quite a bit cheaper to load and is pretty consistent, load-wise. Don't remember right off hand what the Titewad load is...

 

I'm with the rest of these folks: if yer gonna switch to 160's, I would go with the .45CS cases. Starline has gobs of 'em...

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9 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

You left out about a gun filled with blow-back residue. :lol:

OLG

I started out shooting 200s switched to 180s and on to 160s and i can't tell a difference in regard to the amount of blowback from one to the other, they're all sooty. So I've not found it to be any disadvantage with the 160s. Might be different with warthog  loads, but that definately ain't my cup of tea. 

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1 minute ago, Brazos Bo said:

I started out shooting 200s switched to 180s and on to 160s and i can't tell a difference in regard to the amount of blowback from one to the other, they're all sooty. So I've not found it to be any disadvantage with the 160s. Might be different with warthog  loads, but that definately ain't my cup of tea. 

Try a 'magnum' primer.

Will 'speed-up' the burn, just a bit.

OLG

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