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.45 Cowboy Special Loads


ColoradoSlim

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I'm thinking, and sometimes that can be dangerous...

 

Reloading .45 CS cases...

For sizing, I can use a .45 Colt die

For belling the case mouth, a .45ACP die

For seating and crimping, use a .45ACP seater die and a .45ACP taper crimp die with a well-defined crimp (until I get a roll crimp die)

 

Thoughts and ideas?  Maybe someone will eventually make .45CS dies.

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Your die selection is close to what I use.  I use a .45 Auto Rim seater/crimp die, because finding a .45 auto die with roll crimp capability is hard to do, and many of the .45 Colt seat/crimp dies are too long to put a crimp on a short case like Cowboy 45 Special.  

 

I doubt the Cowboy 45 Special will ever get commercial acceptance and dies produced.  Maybe 2000 cow folks world wide shoot it in any volume. 

 

Until someone makes a revolver chambered for Cowboy 45 Special.  I could see Ruger or Pietta perhaps doing that in the far distant future.  If that happened, the manufacturer would make sure some equipment company was geared up to make dies.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

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I use all Hornady 45 colt dies for mine on my LnL Progressive. Never had an issue with any of them being too short, just turned them down more since the Hornady dies are plenty long. 

If you check the image below, hornady uses the same expander and seater for 45 auto rim as 45 colt (and the seater is a roll crimp) so if you buy a 45 colt die set from hornady you're done.

 

image.png.153327c3201aea39cf338ab0620d2637.png

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From Adirondack Jack's Website:

Question: What about loading dies? Updated 12/15/06

Cowboy .45 Special is designed to use ordinary "off the shelf" dies. Using a .45 Colt shell plate and sizing die, and expander and seat/crimp dies from a .45 ACP or autorim die set. While any ACP/Autorim dies will work, along with a .45 Colt shell plate, the very best results to date have been achieved using Hornady New Dimension .45 caliber dies no. 546554. Note Hornady uses the same dies for .45 Colt, ACP, Autorim, and win mag. They produce a proper roll crimp, and use a sliding bullet guide that aids in seating even very short bullets straight. The sizing die is also a bit larger than typical ACP dies, which provides proper bullet tension for .452-4 cast bullets, and requires less effort to size and expand. This makes the press run smoother, and works brass less as well. Personally, I only neck size fired cases, adjusting the sizer so it resizes the part of the brass where the bullet seats, but not the lower aspect. Question: What dies will work? If you already have .45 ACP dies, and don't care to get Hornady dies, your ACP dies will work, together with your .45 Colt shell plate. BUT, there are ways to make "better" ammo by using a bit more intelligent die setup. Since we are loading for .45 COLT chambers, which are notoriously roomy (the old SAAMI numbers are sloppy, and chambers cut to SAAMI max are prone to burnt powder blow-by) we need to think about the actual dimensions of our cases if the goal is to limit blow-by, especially at typical CAS levels. The Cowboy .45 Special has much less blow-by at middle of the road CAS loads, but if you like em reallly light, or load with BP or subs, read on. One way to help reduce blow-by at low velocity levels is to use a .45 COLT sizer die instead of the slightly smaller ACP sizing die. Even better is what is known as "neck sizing" our fired brass. When a case is fired it expands and "bounces" back part way, ending up a few thousanths bigger than "resized" brass. Since we are working with very roomy chambers, we can leave the brass in the "as fired" state, sizing ONLY the case neck where the bullet seats, and sizing that only as much as needed to get decent neck tension on the bullet. Typical pistol dies are designed to "full length size", but can be set up to partially resize or "neck size". To do this, take a .45 Colt sizing die and adjust it so that the decapping pin JUST knocks out the spent primer. Note how close the die mouth is to the shell plate. Most often it is still going to resize more than half of the case. Now, loosen the collet holding the decapping pin, and using a small drift, push the decapping pin about .150 below the top of the die such that only the bottom portion of the collet holds the pin, and retighten the collet. Now adjust the die until it JUST knocks out the old primer, and note how much of the case is up inside the die. Likely you can get the die adjusted to a point where ONLY the case mouth is resized (the area that grabs the bullet) and no further. Now, as long as you can reliably knock out old primers and you're resizing the top .200 in. or so of the case neck, you've done all the sizing CAS brass needs. Load a few fired, neck sized cases with your favorite bullets and make sure they chamber ok in your pistols (mine do with ease) and compare the diameter of the loaded once fired, neck sized cases to those which have been full length resized. You'll likely see about .005 or .006 inch diameter difference at the point of the bullet base, which means when you next fire them, these neck sized rounds will seal much better during firing, leave little powder residue in the chambers, and still extract just fine. This is especially important as we load for minimum recoil with light bullets. Cowboy .45 Special develops more pressure than .45 Colt at a given velocity and that means LESS blow-by at modest levels, but if ya push the lower limits of velocity, it's still possible to get smoky cases. Neck sizing with a .45 COLT sizing die will reduce the smoky cases. 

--Dawg

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You will get A LOT of replies to this thread, which is good...I learn a lot on this forum. Do a search for "C45S", "45CS", etc. and there will be quite a few threads that have already discussed the case loading and etc. For instance...

I use Lee Carbide .45 ACP dies on a 4 hole turret for both .45 ACP and C45S, change only taper/roll crimp die and shell holder, and other minor adjustments if pistols or rifle.

My Dillon SDB loads both .45 ACP and C45S, changing shell plate, only for pistols.

I do get 'smokey cases' in pistol, and occasional .45 'blow by' in rifle with smokeless. When I shoot blackpowder, it's APP in C45S for pistols.

I've got to try using the .45 LC Sizer Die in the 4 hole turret, as noted in Dawg's post above...already do mid range loads and .454 heavier bullet for rifle.

 

RRR

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Thanks for bringing back that thread, RRR.

 

I moved on to using a Lee Classic Turret Press (4 hole) when the single stage press got to be too slow.

 

Sizing/De-capping Die:  Lee .45 Colt.  I tried neck sizing only with the .45ACP dies I had, but it just wasn't consistent for me.  With the .45 Colt die I can just run the die all the way down to the rim.  You'll have to run the de-capping pin back almost all the way out.  The .45CS cases also stay nice and clean on the outside.

 

Expanding Die:  Any .45ACP or .45 Autorim expanding die will work just fine after a little adjustment.  I bought the Lee Powder Thru die so I could take advantage of the Lee AutoDrum powder dispenser, but my Redding .45ACP die worked well while I was on the single stage press.

 

Bullet Seating Die:  Any .45ACP die should work well with only minor adjustment in height.

 

Crimp Die:  Here's where I differed from some of the advice here.  I never could get the .45ACP die to produce a decent crimp (probably my lack of knowledge on proper adjustment of the die).  So I bought the Redding .45 Colt roll crimp die and everything worked perfect within 2 tries at adjustment.

 

As you can see, I jumped around through several different die combinations before landing on a set-up that works flawlessly for me.  Other folks have had good results from their choices, but I just couldn't reproduce their successes in a manner that I was happy with.  Prairie Dawg provided you with a good start and lots of info in a link he provided in the other thread shown above.

 

Side note:  I already had a Uberti '66 in .44/40 that is my main match rifle.  Then I found a great deal on some .45 Colt revolvers.  Visually, at the loading table, the two rounds are so similar that I was concerned that I might get them confused and load the wrong rounds in the wrong guns.  So I picked the .45CS so that visually there would be no doubt as to which caliber was which at the loading table.  I'm glad I did, because the .45CS rounds are a real delight to shoot either in BP or downloaded smokeless loads of Trail Boss.

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I use .45 ACP SWC bullets mostly for all C45S pistol loads, no crimp groove so a taper crimp. In rifle, .45 LC bullets RNFP with a crimp groove so a roll crimp...confident in no bullet sliding back into case in magazine. When I shoot smokeless C45S in both pistols and rifle, different bullet shape eliminates mistake at loading table. Heavier bullet and more powder in rifle loads.

 

RRR

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1 hour ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said:

Why would you need a roll crimp?

Maybe I won't.  I will load some, shoot some. Then, I will take it from there.  If a taper crimp works, then that's what I will use.

 

Thanks,

CS

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12 minutes ago, Rowdy Ranger Rick said:

I use .45 ACP SWC bullets mostly for all C45S pistol loads, no crimp groove so a taper crimp. In rifle, .45 LC bullets RNFP with a crimp groove so a roll crimp...confident in no bullet sliding back into case in magazine. When I shoot smokeless C45S in both pistols and rifle, different bullet shape eliminates mistake at loading table. Heavier bullet and more powder in rifle loads.

 

RRR

I have 1000s of bullets for the .45ACP.  Some are RN and some are SWC.  I will try those early on and see how they work.  Should be good...

 

Thanks, CS

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5 hours ago, ColoradoSlim said:

I'm thinking, and sometimes that can be dangerous...

 

Reloading .45 CS cases...

For sizing, I can use a .45 Colt die

For belling the case mouth, a .45ACP die

For seating and crimping, use a .45ACP seater die and a .45ACP taper crimp die with a well-defined crimp (until I get a roll crimp die)

 

Thoughts and ideas?  Maybe someone will eventually make .45CS dies.

I've shot several thousand of these little fellas that were loaded with the same die set up you listed and never a problem. I'm using Lee carbide dies.

If you have any trouble setting them up just PM me.

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4 minutes ago, Brazos Bo said:

I've shot several thousand of these little fellas that were loaded with the same die set up you listed and never a problem. I'm using Lee carbide dies.

If you have any trouble setting them up just PM me.

What powder charges have worked well for you? I will probably use my .45ACP charges, as I also shoot Bullseye competition.

 

CS

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Keep in mind 45 acp loads are typically higher pressure than the .45 colt and I'm guessing most likely what you guns are chambered for.

Be cautious there if that is the case.

I've used Clays, Red Dot and Promo for them.

All I run in C45S (45CS) are 160gr bullets.

Red Dot 3.9grs

Promo 3.9grs

Clays 4.0grs

Fed primers

 

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Quote

I will probably use my .45ACP charges,

If you use the starting loads in loading manuals for 45 auto, and keep your pressures below about 13,000 PSI with lead bullets, that is a good place to start with the C45S case.

 

If you use full power 45 auto loads, you will be about 5000 psi over the design limit of New Model Vaqueros and all the Colt clones.  :ph34r:

 

I run a 175 grain cast bullet over 4.2 grains of WST powder in C45S and Vaqueros.

 

Good luck, GJ

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6 hours ago, SHOOTIN FOX said:

If you really want to load them as designed, I make the original bullet for that brass. 130 gr, .452; truncated cone, hollow base called the Barnstormer.

9848B1BA-56AA-4DA6-BFBA-13856BCB5B03.jpeg

Any problems getting this bullet to feed in a 66 or 73?

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I played with some 200 gr semi wadcutters.  They just wouldn't feed.  I've settled on 160 gr RNFP.  They work fine in both pistol and rifle and I don't have to mess with loading different loads for each.  Just wondered.  Thanks.

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22 hours ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said:

Why would you need a roll crimp?

A roll crimp has far more bullet grip, than a taper crimp does.

That 'grip' keeps the bullet in place when you cycle a rifle and aids in uniform powder burn.

OLG

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362
28 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

A roll crimp has far more bullet grip, than a taper crimp does.

That 'grip' keeps the bullet in place when you cycle a rifle and aids in uniform powder burn.

OLG

 

 

 I agree, I use them only in my revolvers and you are correct If I ran them in a rifle I would roll crimp them.   

  

 

  Stay safe and shoot often  :FlagAm:

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I roll crimp C45S for pistol loads, as it gives a more consistent pressure & velocity and cleaner burn. 

If you know what you are doing, you can roll crimp into any lead bullet design!

 

Good luck, GJ

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The Prairie Dawg is been verbose.  Under normal circumstances, "I" should be described as being verbose.  I dither however.  As a matter of preference, I roll crimp everything except actual 45 ACP.  Plus One to Garrison Joe.  The roll crimp, even in pistol ammunition, at more common CAS load levels gives a more consistent burn.  Plus .... I shoot C45S in ALL of my Toggle Link Rifles.  Taper crimp not so bueno is a tube magazine.

 

It's been a long time since I tried, but if memory serves, I found the Barnstormer to also not so bueno in a Toggle Link Rifle.  Jam-0-Matic.  For my rifle ammunition with the C45S case, I settled on 160 or 165Gr RNFP crimp tightly in the crimp groove.  To provide said Crimp, I have settled on the Redding Profile Crimp Die for 45 Auto Rim.  Works a treat.

 

PS:  Iffin yer into running light recoiling loads in the 45,  I highly recommend the Barnstormer bullet.  I just picked up a fresh thousand from Shootin Fox (shameless plug) and they are the biz  :)

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I've been shooting 45 Cowboy since I started shooting cowboy. I've tried just about every type of loading die, roll crimp , taper crimp , xcetera. I use a progressive LEE 1000. I found roll crimping to work the brass excessively and I was finding small splits at the mouth of the brass. Years ago I moved to a taper crimp die and my brass last forever. I have loaded by brass at least 20- 30 times before I see any damage. I use a 160 grain lead bullet with 3.5 grains of trail boss powder. My guns stay amazingly clean. My guns are Kirst converted 1860 Piattas. With the light loads we shoot in CAS, the C45S is a great improvement over the 45LC. And with Black powder there is no going back. C45S and BP go together like cold hands and mittens!

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