H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 We all know that the cartridge known as .38-40 is really a .40-40. Just for the sake of pondering, what kind of performance would a "true" .38-40 have? You know, a .44-40 case necked down to take .357" bullets backed by 40 grains of black powder or a more or less equivalent smokeless load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sam, SASS #10915 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Probably something like a 32-40. But the thin walled case would be a limiting factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 There is some company out there converting Marlin 1894s to shoot a wildcat cartridge based on a 44 Magnum necked down to 357. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 This is not the one I'm thinking of but simular and has been around a long time. http://ps-2.kev009.com/ohlandl/310/357-44_Bain_Davis/357-44_Bain_and_Davis.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Cypress Sam, SASS #10915 said: Probably something like a 32-40. But the thin walled case would be a limiting factor. 32-40 is a rifle round. Shares a case with 30wcf and 38-55. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 18 minutes ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said: 32-40 is a rifle round. Shares a case with 30wcf and 38-55. So is the 32-20WCF, 38WCF and 44WCF. It was years before they started clambering them in handguns. Brass is available for the 357/44 Brin and Davis. I've seen loading data. Probability dies someplace. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010083718/quality-cartridge-brass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 First off , The case would likely be limited to about 31 grains +/- a bit ... And it wouldn't be SASS legal out the door.... I have been Playing with the idea of a Canadian Legal, small bore Cowboy round As .32 cal. Revolvers are Prohibited for most shooters up here ... My idea is Rim .492, Rim thickness .059 , Base ahead of Rim .435 , Shoulder at .935 from base, Diameter at Shoulder .424 , Start of neck .946 from base , Neck length .334 , Overall length 1.280.... Using a bullet .334 in Diameter with a weight of 120 - 130 gr. ,,,, Lighter could be used .... This would bypass the Stupid .32 rule up here and Be a great Women's and Kids round for Blackpowder ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or smokieless.... I call it the Cowboy .34 ..... The base case is the .44 Mag. ,,, Smaller bullet than the .38WCF ... but still with room to make smoke-standard with ease.... Strong modern brass , Star-line makes the basic case by the Ton..... And I think it would fill a preceived Need for a Cowboy small bore up here ... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Warden Callaway said: So is the 32-20WCF, 38WCF and 44WCF. It was years before they started clambering them in handguns. Brass is available for the 357/44 Brin and Davis. I've seen loading data. Probability dies someplace. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010083718/quality-cartridge-brass Well aware of what sort of firearms they were chambered in. Was simply pointing out the fact that a 32-40 would drive a bullet much further, flatter and faster that a 44-40 necked down to a .357. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomStick Jay Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 So a rimmed 357 sig. It could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 1 hour ago, BoomStick Jay said: So a rimmed 357 sig. It could work. More fun in a 10mm case. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 4 hours ago, BoomStick Jay said: So a rimmed 357 sig. It could work. 2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: More fun in a 10mm case. OLG I probably ain't telling anything new to you fellers but I thought I would add on to your comments, which are great. The rimmed .357 SIG would be .355..... just like a 9mm and not a true .357 caliber. The 10mm, necked down to .355 is known in the rimless world as the 9 x 25 DILLON. Its a hoss. There are some conversion parts available for the Glock and the 1911, although not many folks are changing over their .45 1911's to be a 9 x 25 Dillon. Like I said..... It IS a Hoss! EDIT: And in my humble opinion, a Marlin 1894 could be properly timed to reliably function with such ammo, either the .357 SIG, or the 9 x 25 Dillon. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 5 hours ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said: First off , The case would likely be limited to about 31 grains +/- a bit ... And it wouldn't be SASS legal out the door.... I have been Playing with the idea of a Canadian Legal, small bore Cowboy round As .32 cal. Revolvers are Prohibited for most shooters up here ... My idea is Rim .492, Rim thickness .059 , Base ahead of Rim .435 , Shoulder at .935 from base, Diameter at Shoulder .424 , Start of neck .946 from base , Neck length .334 , Overall length 1.280.... Using a bullet .334 in Diameter with a weight of 120 - 130 gr. ,,,, Lighter could be used .... This would bypass the Stupid .32 rule up here and Be a great Women's and Kids round for Blackpowder ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or smokieless.... I call it the Cowboy .34 ..... The base case is the .44 Mag. ,,, Smaller bullet than the .38WCF ... but still with room to make smoke-standard with ease.... Strong modern brass , Star-line makes the basic case by the Ton..... And I think it would fill a preceived Need for a Cowboy small bore up here ... Jabez Cowboy You've done your homework, Jabez. Don't forget degree of shoulder..... probably something similar to an Ackley Improved shoulder, but name it after You and your caliber size, like "Jabez .340". Good luck on your efforts. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 39 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: I probably ain't telling anything new to you fellers but I thought I would add on to your comments, which are great. The rimmed .357 SIG would be .355..... just like a 9mm and not a true .357 caliber. The 10mm, necked down to .355 is known in the rimless world as the 9 x 25 DILLON. Its a hoss. There are some conversion parts available for the Glock and the 1911, although not many folks are changing over their .45 1911's to be a 9 x 25 Dillon. Like I said..... It IS a Hoss! EDIT: And in my humble opinion, a Marlin 1894 could be properly timed to reliably function with such ammo, either the .357 SIG, or the 9 x 25 Dillon. ..........Widder TNX Widder, I didn't want to post it as the 9x25mm Dillon. It's what I was referring to. Fired it out of a Glock. Fun round, but I just prefer the 10mm auto. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Gambler Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 23 hours ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said: 32-40 is a rifle round. Shares a case with 30wcf and 38-55. Is 32-40 another name for the 32 Winchester special? 32 WS shares a case with the 30-30 too. I did some looking and apparenlty there's a number of rounds called "32-40", so i'm not sure which one your thinking of. Here's a picture of 30-30, 32 WS, 32-40, and 38-55. None of them look like the same case to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 They are indeed all from the .38-55 Case , both the .38-55 and the .32-40 pre-date the .30-30 with the .32 Win. Spec. bringing up the rear ... Also on the same basic case is the .25-35 Win . Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireball #7709 Life Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 On 4/28/2019 at 10:41 AM, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said: First off , The case would likely be limited to about 31 grains +/- a bit ... And it wouldn't be SASS legal out the door.... I have been Playing with the idea of a Canadian Legal, small bore Cowboy round As .32 cal. Revolvers are Prohibited for most shooters up here ... My idea is Rim .492, Rim thickness .059 , Base ahead of Rim .435 , Shoulder at .935 from base, Diameter at Shoulder .424 , Start of neck .946 from base , Neck length .334 , Overall length 1.280.... Using a bullet .334 in Diameter with a weight of 120 - 130 gr. ,,,, Lighter could be used .... This would bypass the Stupid .32 rule up here and Be a great Women's and Kids round for Blackpowder ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or smokieless.... I call it the Cowboy .34 ..... The base case is the .44 Mag. ,,, Smaller bullet than the .38WCF ... but still with room to make smoke-standard with ease.... Strong modern brass , Star-line makes the basic case by the Ton..... And I think it would fill a preceived Need for a Cowboy small bore up here ... Jabez Cowboy Winters are long up there, eh?! Interesting project idea, but I'm not seeing what you'd accomplish that you can't do with current calibers/guns? 38 special BP rounds are plenty light for kids and ladies, I started my son on them very early and he shot them for years. .334 vs. .357, not much difference to justify special molds/dies and case forming, when bullets are commonly available in 357 on either side of your suggested bullet weight of 120-130grs. Rechambering and rebarreling get's pricey, then's there's special reamers. You could make your own dies if you have the reamers, but dang, that's a lot of work to duplicate a "fat 38 special"? Molds could be cut too... Probably have to neck ream the cases if necking them down that much. It'd be cool, but you'd have some serious money wrapped up in it. On the upside, you can name it and have the "JC 34 Special Express" or some such! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 The main purpose is to allow those that want a small caliber ( most folks up here can't own .32 caliber pistols ) for this game.... And I wanted it to be a GOOD round for use with Holy Black .... Kinda off like my favourite caliber for Black .38-40 ( .38 WCF ) And I wanted it Called .34 Cowboy.... Widder is the one that came up with naming it after me .... I probley won't go any further than to lay-out my design as a possibility ....... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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