Let's talk livestock

[Alpo]

Questions, questions.

 

A cow has a baby. This baby is a calf. How long is it a calf? Is it an age thing? He's a calf until he's two (or one or six or whatever) then he's a bull?

 

If you cut a bull calf, he's now a steer. Can you cut a sexually mature bull, (without him bleeding to death) and he is now also a steer? I kind of thought that the purpose of castrating the calf was to prevent testosterone from taintig the meat.

 

I believe that a girl cow is a heifer, until she has a calf. Then she is no longer a heifer, she is a cow. Are boy cows always bulls, or do they have another name for when they are young?

 

Horses. I believe a girl horse is a filly until she has a foal, and then she becomes a mare. I might be wrong about this, but that is my belief.

 

How about a boy horse? I've read references to a "horse colt" as opposed to a filly, and I know that a baby horse is a foal. But what, exactly, is a colt? Is it a young horse? Is it specifically a young MALE horse? And how long is it a colt?

 

This ponder was started by the guy in the book having a five-year-old colt. I've always thought of a colt as a young horse, so five seemed a little old for that term.

 

Let's go back to cows. What, exactly, is an ox? Is it a different breed of cow? I know they have milk cows, and they have beef cows, so maybe they also have work cows??

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

An ox is a steer that was not slaughtered young. I recall when the occasional pair of oxen came to the slaughter house. They were huge, usually Holsteins.  Often had to put a shroud around the neck to keep it out of the sawdust.  Meat wise they were more tender than bulls, were often butchered and the meat would be mixed with cow meat for commercial burgers (for chains).

 

castrating a bull does not a steer make.

 

never heard an other name for bull calves.

 

heifers can be slaughtered and the meat is comparable to steer meat. No reputable place would mix them together but did I say this place was reputable? I could describe some of the disreputable things that went on, but that’s for another time.

[Wapaloosie73]

27 minutes ago, Alpo said:

Questions, questions.

 

A cow has a baby. This baby is a calf. How long is it a calf? Is it an age thing? He's a calf until he's two (or one or six or whatever) then he's a bull?

 

If you cut a bull calf, he's now a steer. Can you cut a sexually mature bull, (without him bleeding to death) and he is now also a steer? I kind of thought that the purpose of castrating the calf was to prevent testosterone from taintig the meat.

 

I believe that a girl cow is a heifer, until she has a calf. Then she is no longer a heifer, she is a cow. Are boy cows always bulls, or do they have another name for when they are young?

 

Horses. I believe a girl horse is a filly until she has a foal, and then she becomes a mare. I might be wrong about this, but that is my belief.

 

How about a boy horse? I've read references to a "horse colt" as opposed to a filly, and I know that a baby horse is a foal. But what, exactly, is a colt? Is it a young horse? Is it specifically a young MALE horse? And how long is it a colt?

 

This ponder was started by the guy in the book having a five-year-old colt. I've always thought of a colt as a young horse, so five seemed a little old for that term.

 

Let's go back to cows. What, exactly, is an ox? Is it a different breed of cow? I know they have milk cows, and they have beef cows, so maybe they also have work cows??

 

Calves are calves until one. Then they are yearlings. Sex is attached after. That yearling heifer....

 

Yes you can cut a mature bull or band him. Muscle density caused by testosterone makes the meat tough but not tainted. Ground beef is the best route. 

 

Yes. Same with heifer and cow.

 

Until he begins to breed mares then he is a stud. Unless you geld him. Then he is a gelding. Which makes your best saddle mount.

 

Exactly. Oxen can be any breed of cattle that is broke to drive. Drive means to pull something. Oxen where a big part of the Oregon trail and could be eaten at the end. Or sold to miners. 

[J-BAR #18287]

And a freemartin is a female calf that is a twin to a male calf.  Freemartins are sterile.

[Yul Lose]

49 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

And a freemartin is a female calf that is a twin to a male calf.  Freemartins are sterile.

Is that true with cattle only or other livestock as well? 

[J-BAR #18287]

Cattle for sure, don’t know about other species.  Research is indicated. 

 

 

Edit:  from Wiki:

 

^] Freemartinism is the normal outcome of mixed-sex twins in all cattlespecies that have been studied, and it also occurs occasionally in other mammals including sheep, goats, and pigs.

[Yul Lose]

45 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Cattle for sure, don’t know about other species.  Research is indicated. 

 

 

Edit:  from Wiki:

 

^] Freemartinism is the normal outcome of mixed-sex twins in all cattlespecies that have been studied, and it also occurs occasionally in other mammals including sheep, goats, and pigs.

I learned sumthin today.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

47 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Cattle for sure, don’t know about other species.  Research is indicated. 

 

 

Edit:  from Wiki:

 

^] Freemartinism is the normal outcome of mixed-sex twins in all cattlespecies that have been studied, and it also occurs occasionally in other mammals including sheep, goats, and pigs.

I thought Pigs came in bunches of both sex.

How would you determine if two were twins? 

 

 

1 minute ago, Yul Lose said:

I learned sumthin today.

Me too, Yul. 

[Yul Lose]

I’m gettin old but I guess it’s never to late for a sex education class, J-Bar. If the sow was mated to by one boar wouldn’t the entire litter of piglets be twins, or triplets, or quadruplets, or I can’t count any higher without getting confused but you get the idea. Surely the sow didn’t mate with numerous boars and become impregnated by each one. Sheep and goats I can understand but not a pig who usually has a fairly large litter, kinda like a dog.

[Whiskey Business]

1 hour ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Cattle for sure, don’t know about other species.  Research is indicated. 

 

 

Edit:  from Wiki:

 

^] Freemartinism is the normal outcome of mixed-sex twins in all cattlespecies that have been studied, and it also occurs occasionally in other mammals including sheep, goats, and pigs.

 

Brave new world.

[J-BAR #18287]

Male and female fetuses that are born at the same time are “fraternal “ twins and have separate placentas.   As I understand it, there is some material, hormones or DNA etc., that can tranfer from one  bovine fetus to another, and in cattle enough stuff transfers from the male fetus to the female fetus to result in failure of the ovaries in the female to develop.  Identical twins also have separate placentas but because they are genetically identical, they are same sex, so there is no issue with transfer of placental material from one to the other.

 

 I suspect from my limited understanding that there must be differences in the amount of material transferred between fetuses depending on the species considered. Cattle obviously experience enough transfer to have an effect  on the female .  Others not so much. I guess.

 

Since the problem is caused by transfer of material between opposite- sex fetuses, I think it would still occur even if the two fetuses had different sires.  The problem is having buns in the oven at the same time, not who the sire was.

[Alpo]

Your original post said the girl twin calf is sterile. But the way the wiki article reads to me, both calves are sterile. Male and female.

 

Yes, No, maybe?

 

[J-BAR #18287]

10 minutes ago, Alpo said:

Your original post said the girl twin calf is sterile. But the way the wiki article reads to me, both calves are sterile. Male and female.

 

Yes, No, maybe?

 

 

Again, from Wikipedia;

 

“The male twin is largely unaffected by the fusion (of placentas) although the size of the testicles may be slightly reduced. Testicle size is associated with fertility, so there may be some reduction in bull fertility.”

 

 I was a dog and cat mechanic mostly, some horse and cow practice experience, but it’s been 40 years since I listened to Theriogenology lectures. Sorry I am not more expert in this area.  Apparently there are degrees of abnormalities, particularly in non bovine species.  A bull who was born twin to a female calf will likely be fertile, although not as potent as one who had no twin.