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Cap and ball speed loading

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I’m looking for ideas to speed up my loading process.  I shoot a pair of ‘48 Dragoons.  I’m sure the best thing would be to buy 10 more cylinders and nipples but I don’t want to pay for it or clean it.  I currently use a North East Trade Co. EZE loader.  It works well, dispensing powder is what slows me down.  Brass flask is real slow.  I’ve been using a Lyman 55 measure but it’s testy in humidity and having it full of powder seems like an accident waiting to happen.  Any suggestions?

thanks for looking 

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Pre measure your powder. I've seen some use test tubes: https://www.amazon.com/Graduated-Plastic-Tubes-16×105mm-DEPEPE/dp/B07D9J99NH/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=ZK7NQRMRLF5D&keywords=10ml+test+tubes&qid=1556121480&s=gateway&sprefix=10ml+test+%2Caps%2C156&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1

 

I also have some that will hold a ball and have a cap on both ends, those are in the muzzleloading supplies at Wally World.

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Depending on your powder load, Dixie has rubber speed loaders where you can pre measure your powder and top with a ball.

 

I personally use a flask and load cylinder in the gun.  It takes 5-7 minutes on average to do both guns or about two shooters.

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Posted (edited)

Pre-measured charges work.

But, I don't use them

I take the cylinder out, wipe fouling off the cylinder & gun frame.

I use a Lee dipper and a tupperware container full of powder

Load the cylinder on a Powder Inc cylinder loader

3-4 shooters while watching the unloading table & I am done.

 

By the way, I also load the night before as I am prepping the guns, so that when I get to the range, I don't have any loading chores to do beofore the match. 

--Dawg

Edited by Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329
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The Dixie Gun Works loader looks great for holding both powder & ball.  For just powder, a 12 ga. shotgun hull will seal a 20 ga. hull.  Both can be cut shorter to match volume needed.  Real cheap! 

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25 minutes ago, PowderMark said:

 Brass flask is real slow.  

 

I don’t understand this.  I went to North East Trade Co. website but can’t find a photo of the EZE loader.

 

 I use a cylindrical brass flask (Treso or CVA) with interchangeable spouts.  I load with cylinder in the gun.  I lay out 5 lead balls on the table, hold the gun in my left hand, drop a powder charge from the flask, seat the ball.  Leave the rammer on the seated ball while throwing the powder into the next chamber, then seat the next ball.  The gun never leaves my left hand until all 5 balls are seated.  I cannot see how fumbling around with containers of pre-measured charges could be faster, particularly when you take into account the time you spent measuring and filling all those little containers.

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Posted (edited)

What brand of powder and granulation size are you using?

 

 I use 2F Schuetzen and do not have problems with bridging in the flask, valve, or spout.

 

 I also return the powder to the factory container after returning from the range,  rather than leaving unused powder in the flask.

Edited by J-BAR #18287

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I also occasionally use a pair of Uberti 2nd Model Dragoons. The advice given so far will help speed things up. I have found, however, that when I pour from any type of open funnel(flask, tubes) I eventually spill powder in the process of loading. Mea Culpa, I'm getting older:rolleyes:. I had to resort to paper cartridges--I make just a powder "packet" without bullet attached. Took me a while before I worked things out to my satisfaction. I know---making these are tedious---but for use at a match I find nothing easier. Especially if I get interrupted during the loading process I can just look down and see white paper packets to easily tell which chambers are loaded. I did a pretty thorough test last year on four different days with four different sets of guns. My paper packets are untreated(no soaking in potassium nitrate) Sally brand hair curling papers. Anyway, I ended up with 288 consecutive shots without any issue--no hangfires, no nothing. I intentionally did not clean any residue out of any chambers. I just kept loading right on top of whatever small amount paper residue that remained after firing in order to duplicate what might occur at a match. As a matter of fact, I will be working with those two Dragoons tomorrow to further refine and experiment. Good Luck with whatever method you decide upon.

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47 minutes ago, PowderMark said:

Apparently you have a better flask than mine.  I have a 40gr spout on mine.  Tip it over, check it, not full, tip it shake it check it, almost, tip it.......

 

https://www.northeasttradeco.com/online-store/EZE-Loader-Revolver-cylinder-loader-p68851282

I find that when you tip the flask over to fill, if you tap it a couple of times on the edge of the table before releasing the gate, You will get consistent loads every time.

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1 hour ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said:

Pr-measured charges work.

I take the cylinder out, wipe fouling off the cylinder & gun frame.

I use a Lee dipper and a tupperware container full of powder

Load the cylinder on a Powder Inc cylinder loader

3-4 shooters while watching the unloading table & I am done.

--Dawg

+1 Over the years I have also found this to be the Best Method.

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When I run my 1860s I load on the gun. Using the typical colt style flask full of GOEX 2F with a 24g spout. Revolver in left hand, flask in right. Finger over spout, invert the flask and pump the lever a couple times with my thumb then pour the charge into a chamber. Set the flask down, place a ball on the chamber and seat. Pick up the flask and repeat. The muzzle is controlled at all times. When both revolvers are charged I lube over the ball with my finger and then a quick wipe of any mess. Rest the hammers on the safety pins and in the holster they go. 

I do not take on a posse chore while loading. I pay attention to what I am doing. This often takes the time of two shooters and never more than three. Then I find a posse position where someone needs to be relieved. 

Simple. Works very well and does not require a wheel barrel full of gear.

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2 hours ago, Navy Six said:

I also occasionally use a pair of Uberti 2nd Model Dragoons. The advice given so far will help speed things up. I have found, however, that when I pour from any type of open funnel(flask, tubes) I eventually spill powder in the process of loading. Mea Culpa, I'm getting older:rolleyes:. I had to resort to paper cartridges--I make just a powder "packet" without bullet attached. Took me a while before I worked things out to my satisfaction. I know---making these are tedious---but for use at a match I find nothing easier. Especially if I get interrupted during the loading process I can just look down and see white paper packets to easily tell which chambers are loaded. I did a pretty thorough test last year on four different days with four different sets of guns. My paper packets are untreated(no soaking in potassium nitrate) Sally brand hair curling papers. Anyway, I ended up with 288 consecutive shots without any issue--no hangfires, no nothing. I intentionally did not clean any residue out of any chambers. I just kept loading right on top of whatever small amount paper residue that remained after firing in order to duplicate what might occur at a match. As a matter of fact, I will be working with those two Dragoons tomorrow to further refine and experiment. Good Luck with whatever method you decide upon.

 

For speed of loading at a match, I'm in absolute agreement with Navy Six!  Making paper cartridges ahead of time DOES take time, but you can do it at your leisure and it speeds up the loading process greatly - almost as easy as a metal cartridge. . . almost.

 

2 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

 I use a cylindrical brass flask (Treso or CVA) with interchangeable spouts.  I load with cylinder in the gun.  I lay out 5 lead balls on the table, hold the gun in my left hand, drop a powder charge from the flask, seat the ball.  Leave the rammer on the seated ball while throwing the powder into the next chamber, then seat the next ball.  The gun never leaves my left hand until all 5 balls are seated.  I cannot see how fumbling around with containers of pre-measured charges could be faster, particularly when you take into account the time you spent measuring and filling all those little containers.

 

When I don't use paper cartridges (which is more often than not), I do the exact same thing J-BAR describes, only I use a teardrop-style flask.  Keeps the process simple, accountable, with a minimum of fuss and gear.  I dislike taking apart the gun - even a Remington - to load, as loading on the pistol is much faster for me.  A good powder flask will be your best friend!

 

Two points I'll also mention: even with paper cartridges, I'd advise lube on the top of the chambers.  Keeps the fouling soft and action running smoother.  Second, fabricate from a needle or wire a  small pick to use on the cones.  Most of the paper will detonate with just the cap, but to be on the safe side, poking a needle hole through the paper cartridge will ensure a direct line from the cap to the powder.  Wild Bill Hickok is recorded as doing this, and he knew a thing or two about cap 'n ball revolvers. . . ;)

 

In any event. . .

 

Keep your powder dry,

Wild Ben

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PLUS ONE to Prairie DAWG

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Posted (edited)

+1 to those advocating paper cartridges. It just makes loading faster and you only have to carry a small box or pouch of cartridges, and caps. Get's you back to your posse faster.

 

It's been stated that yes, it takes time beforehand to load up the paper carts, but it doesn't take that much time. Most people are reloading metallic cartridges and don't seem to complain. Loading paper is WAY faster and easier than loading brass. In an hour, you can have all the paper cartridges you'll need for a match. Watch two episodes of Bonanza while you're loading and you'll be done.

Edited by Smokey Dave

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Posted (edited)

This is a C&B speed loader a friend made for me.

If you use fillers it comes in 3 parts.

Diamond Curly has the metal version now.

 

wt.jpg

wt2.jpg

Edited by Major Crimes

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Several years ago, I remember seeing information on a super trix set up being made and sold in Europe.  I believe the manufacturer was in France.  It had 6 chambers to preload.  Hold it over the cylinder face (off the gun) twist and done.  I was going to send for some and then forgot about it and I felt the hassle of dealing with European suppliers would be far a RPITA so I forgot about it.

 

Since I use a cylinder loading press and a scoop and funnel, I no longer feel the need.  

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2 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Several years ago, I remember seeing information on a super trix set up being made and sold in Europe.  I believe the manufacturer was in France.  It had 6 chambers to preload.  Hold it over the cylinder face (off the gun) twist and done.  I was going to send for some and then forgot about it and I felt the hassle of dealing with European suppliers would be far a RPITA so I forgot about it.

 

Since I use a cylinder loading press and a scoop and funnel, I no longer feel the need.  

 

I saw a picture of something similar made from some rifle cartridges expoxied to a small plate so that their mouths matched the chambers of the cylinder.  To retain the powder in each cartridge until use foam ear plugs were inserted into the neck of each cartridge.  To use, the faom plugs were removed and the cylinder was placed ove the "speed loader". Then the entire assembly was inverted dumping the powder into the individual chambers.

 

Tried to find a picture but so far my google-fu has come up empty.

 

Personally I have found practice to be the best way to efficently reload C&B revolvers.

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I made my own speed loaders and adapter to load cylinder on C press.

 

 

It works.  But I only shot my cap guns in one match and used a stand and loaded cylinders on gun.

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PM, 

I use small test tubes.  I load them with powder while watching tv.  Throw a small brass funnel in the chamber and dump the powder.  Faster and easier than paper cartridges or a flask.  Place a wonder wad and seat the ball.  Still perform my posse duties. 

 

Gringo

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I never shot competitively, but I also made paper charges using cigarette papers for my navy colts. Never had a FTF. I made em while watching TV as others seem to do.  BTW,  I used an ink pen (slightly smaller than the cylinder bore) to roll the papers around first. Then used my flask to fill em and twisted the ends and trimmed the extra off. 

 

jim

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40 minutes ago, Msgtarmor said:

I never shot competitively, but I also made paper charges using cigarette papers for my navy colts. Never had a FTF. I made em while watching TV as others seem to do.  BTW,  I used an ink pen (slightly smaller than the cylinder bore) to roll the papers around first. Then used my flask to fill em and twisted the ends and trimmed the extra off. 

 

jim

Do you have the ball in your paper or are you making powder charges only?

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

Do you have the ball in your paper or are you making powder charges only?

Just powder.  I t was too hard to keep the charges together with a ball attached. Especially when I was trying to dig one out of my pouch.  But I was using the thinnest Zig Zag papers I could find. 

 

jim

Edited by Msgtarmor

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I have been using the pre-formed 30 grain pellets on my 1860 Army's for years....works great.  Very efficient drop them in , seat a ball, cap it and shazzam you are ready for another stage!

 

Bugler

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On 4/24/2019 at 11:10 AM, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said:

Pre-measured charges work.

But, I don't use them

I take the cylinder out, wipe fouling off the cylinder & gun frame.

I use a Lee dipper and a tupperware container full of powder

Load the cylinder on a Powder Inc cylinder loader

3-4 shooters while watching the unloading table & I am done.

 

By the way, I also load the night before as I am prepping the guns, so that when I get to the range, I don't have any loading chores to do beofore the match. 

--Dawg

 

Do you pop caps before you load?

 

I never have poped caps to clear flash holes.  I do a visual inspection before loading to see if flash holes are clear.  I've never had a problem.  

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Yes, I pop 2 caps per chamber.

I was told that it burns off excess oil in the cylinder chambers.

I use a nipple pick to make sure the flash holes are clear.

That's the way I learned 35 years ago when I started shooting cap guns, and it has always worked well for me, so I continue.

But, I've learned that there are a lot of ways to deal with muzzleloaders, and most of them work.

I've settled on procedures that work for me.

--Dawg

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1 hour ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said:

 

I've settled on procedures that work for me.

--Dawg

 

And every other Frontiersman will say the same! ;) 

 

And that is the beauty of percussion revolvers—- more than one way to be successful.

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J-BAR #18287

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I've settled on procedures that work for me.

--Dawg

 

And every other Frontiersman will say the same! ;) 

 

And that is the beauty of percussion revolvers—- more than one way to be successful.

 

 

Yep!

J-Bar knows!

--Dawg

 

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On 4/24/2019 at 11:10 AM, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said:

Pre-measured charges work.

But, I don't use them

I take the cylinder out, wipe fouling off the cylinder & gun frame.

I use a Lee dipper and a tupperware container full of powder

Load the cylinder on a Powder Inc cylinder loader

3-4 shooters while watching the unloading table & I am done.

 

By the way, I also load the night before as I am prepping the guns, so that when I get to the range, I don't have any loading chores to do beofore the match. 

--Dawg

What he said

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Percussion Revolver ...... Speed Loading ..... 

 

Using these two terms in the same sentence is ...... OXYMORON    :ph34r:

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Well. I took the two Dragoons out yesterday like I mentioned. When loading from a flask, I managed to spill powder also like I mentioned:rolleyes:!! I alternated between traditional loading from a flask, wool wad and round ball-- then paper cartridges and Dick Dastardly's EPP-UG45 that contains a lube groove, so no need for the extra step of lube application. There was quite a difference in time and ease of effort between the two methods.  I enjoy reading about everyone's approach to this situation. The nice thing about these cap & ball pistols is the variety of methods used in making them run. It sure keeps things interesting. I'm beginning to prefer shooting them to cartridge guns.

  By the way, I put 50 rounds through each gun. Used Goex 2F. Heavy fouling on the hammer, hammer channel in the frame and recoil shield. I only wiped down the hammer face in between loadings to prevent cap sucking issues. I just KNEW the internals had to look the same so I broke both guns down. Well, wrong again! A waste of time as there was very little detectable fouling on the internals. 

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Hey Navy Six.

 Is the spout on you flask tapered or straight? For me the tapered type spout work very well with gun in hand.

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Posted (edited)

These are marketed under different names but are all the same. The plunger is much easier to use than the lever and band spring setup of other flasks. You can buy interchangeable spouts for the load you want. About as easy as it gets.

 

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/traditions-deluxe-powder-flask-a1201.html

 

I load my cylinders off the gun as the loading levers on my 1860 Pietta Sheriffs are too short without using a cheater bar. I found over time, the cheater bar bent the levers to the point they wouldn't latch. I've fitted the wedges so they come out with thumb pressure, so the total time it takes to disassemble and reassemble is about 30 seconds.

 

 

 

Edited by Abilene Slim SASS 81783
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