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Dusty Devil Dale

My kind of match, a mix of old and new

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Posted (edited)

Just finished shooting the Shootout at Fort Miller.  The setting is in the Kings River Regulators' simulated 1870s town, in the green foothills of California's Sierra Nevada range. 

 

IMO, a great match--definitely not easy, but not terribly difficult either.  10 carefully written stages were clear, and creative.  6 had moving targets, 1 whole stage was shot while seated in a fast moving and bumpy ore cart.  You definitely had to be able to shoot accurately, acquire targets rapidly, and make decisions fast.  For me that meant slowing down on the cadence just a bit in order to avoid missing.  Those who didn't do that paid the price. 104 shooters had 7 SDQs, 64 Ps, and a boatload of misses (8 for me, despite my efforts to slow down and aim).  Only three shooters shot the match clean.  

We shot flying clays, swinging targets, a charging buffalo, saved an outlaw pardner from being hanged, and rattled down the curved, bumpy track of the ore cart.  We did a great deal of laughing with good friends, then sat down to a superb barbQ rib banquet.  IMO it was everything a good traditional CAS match should be.   If you prefer redundant stages of stand-and-shoot at close targets, this may be a good one to skip.  But if you like the traditional CAS model, with props, longer shots, and all the trimmings, then this is definitely one to think about for next April.   Pure fun! 

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale
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I always liked Ft Miller for the variety of the stages. Just checked the scores, was a decent turnout, wish I could have gotten there to visit

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Me too MDJ.  I broke two bones in my leg and had to pull out this year.  Great venue, great shoot, great folks.

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1 hour ago, Mad Dog Jack, SASS #77862 said:

I always liked Ft Miller for the variety of the stages. Just checked the scores, was a decent turnout, wish I could have gotten there to visit

It's truly a traditional match.  Snakebite did his usual great job of putting together stages that were fun to shoot, and carry forward the kinds of cowboy shooting that originally attracted all of us to this great sport.  With those realistic and challenging scenarios, coupled with well designed, permanent, western themed shooting bays and stage props, it has something for just about everybody-- except maybe those cowboys or cowgirls focused only on shooting ten or twelve second stages--sorry pards, it ain't gonna happen very often here. 

MDJ, we hope to see you there again in the future.  Space and parking limitations necessarily limit the event size to about 120 shooters, give-r-take, so by the end of the three days, just about everybody knows everybody else.  That in combo with the California springtime weather (75-83 F. ) makes it great fun and a great venue.   

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"Those who didn't do that paid the price. 104 shooters had 7 SDQs, 64 Ps, and a boatload of misses".  I'm not so sure that's a good thing. 

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Those SDQ and P stats are not the norm for this match and I'll bet next year won't be a repeat knowing the match officials.

 

This is a traditional match where there is a lot of movement, moving targets, challenging stages, and times where you must use your sights. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Cowboy Junky said:

"Those who didn't do that paid the price. 104 shooters had 7 SDQs, 64 Ps, and a boatload of misses".  I'm not so sure that's a good thing. 

IMO, It's always a good thing when everyone is laughing, cheering each other on, kidding each other and having a fun time.  And we did.  It was definitely a traditional match design and not stand-and-shoot. 

Being able to shoot fast just wasn't enough.  You had to be able to shoot using sights, know where your guns' POA is, hit some moving targets, and slow down a bit to remember the stage directions.  Any cowboy worth his leather ought to be able to do those things-- right?   

 

Nothing was terribly difficult.  In most cases you had a choice to shoot the harder bonus targets or not.  In one fun stage, choosing to take the longer rifle targets with your pistols saved you repositioning twice  (but you did have to hit the targets to get the benefit).  In another, from a buck board seat, you had to set down your guns before each shooting string to pull back on the reigns to reset and reshoot the shotgun targets. 

I didn't hear anybody complaining about stage difficulty.  All of us did a good deal of laughing and kidding each other, however. 

It was fun.  IMHO, It was Cowboy Action Shooting at its best.  If this kind of match isn't your particular cup of tea, then as I stated earlier, it might be one for you to skip -- that's OK.  (More BBQ ribs left for me!) 

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

Those SDQ and P stats are not the norm for this match and I'll bet next year won't be a repeat knowing the match officials.

Perhaps it looks too hard at first glance, but consider that 1040 total stages were shot in the match by 104 shooters.  So 64 Ps is just a tad under 6% of the stages - about one in eighteen.  And 7 SDQs is pretty much negligible.   None of that was enough to interfere with the fun shooting challenges.  So I personally hope the Ft. Miller Match stays about the same next year.  No changes recommended from this particular shooter.  

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale

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3 hours ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

This is a traditional match where there is a lot of movement, moving targets, challenging stages, and times where you must use your sights. 

Exactly.  Being able to hit the side of a barn from the inside won't get you very much in this particular match.  You have to be able to shoot and think like a cowboy! 

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2 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Perhaps it looks too hard at first glance, but consider that 1040 total stages were shot in the match by 104 shooters.  So 64 Ps is just a tad under 6% of the stages - about one in eighteen.  And 7 SDQs is pretty much negligible.   None of that was enough to interfere with the fun shooting challenges.  So I personally hope the Ft. Miller Match stays about the same next year.  No changes recommended from this particular shooter.  

I've shot Fort Miller several times and have enjoyed it every time.  IIRC, SDQs were always less than 2-3 and were rarely for anything other than shooter error.  

 

Yes, nothing hard but you must keep your mind on the scenarios.  The ore cart and running Buffalo throws a different spin on things too if folks don't shoot moving targets much.

 

Hopefully I can get there next year.

 

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9 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Exactly.  Being able to hit the side of a barn from the inside won't get you very much in this particular match.  You have to be able to shoot and think like a cowboy! 

Do we have matches where being able to hit the side of a barn from inside will get you a lot?  I don't think so. 

 

When you mention that you have to be able to shoot and think like a cowboy does that mean that the top finishers at this match are different people than the top finishers at other local matches?  It's been my experience that making a match difficult doesn't change who finishes at the top, it just makes the gap between them and everybody else larger. 


We had a relatively tough annual match recently with 50+ shooters, one of whom was clean.  The top shooter was still one of the two people you would have expected it to be, Cowboy Junky, and the shooters with one miss were pretty much who you would expect them to be if you shoot locally and know who the more competitive shooters are.  The only thing that changed was that the overall times went up and the gap between the top shooters and the middle of the pack increased. The people in the middle shot more slowly and with more mistakes.

 

I think that if you like shooting from a moving cart (sounds like fun to me) and you like shooting moving targets (also sounds like fun to me) this would be a good match for you.  OTH, if you think this kind of match results in people who 'shoot and think like a cowboy' doing well, whereas big and close matches don't, you're mistaken, the same shooters are going to excel in either match and the same people will occupy the middle and the bottom of the leader board.  Only the times next to their names will change, not the order. 

 

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18 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Just finished shooting the Shootout at Fort Miller.  The setting is in the Kings River Regulators' simulated 1870s town, in the green foothills of California's Sierra Nevada range. 

 

Only three shooters shot the match clean.   

 

2 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

You had to be able to shoot using sights, know where your guns' POA is, hit some moving targets, and slow down a bit to remember the stage directions.  Any cowboy worth his leather ought to be able to do those things-- right?   

 

 

 

Using your own words to describe the match and shooting proficiency of participants, 

Looks like only 3 Cowboys were worth their leather......  :o

 

;).

.........Widder

 

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9 hours ago, Cowboy Junky said:

"Those who didn't do that paid the price. 104 shooters had 7 SDQs, 64 Ps, and a boatload of misses".  I'm not so sure that's a good thing. 

Fun is should be the only match metric, and this match sounds like fun in spades. 

 

I’d rather get a P while having fun than shoot clean on most of today’s courses. 

 

But if somebody likes fast clean stages, that’s okay too. 

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20 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Just finished shooting the Shootout at Fort Miller.  The setting is in the Kings River Regulators' simulated 1870s town, in the green foothills of California's Sierra Nevada range. 

 

IMO, a great match--definitely not easy, but not terribly difficult either.  10 carefully written stages were clear, and creative.  6 had moving targets, 1 whole stage was shot while seated in a fast moving and bumpy ore cart.  You definitely had to be able to shoot accurately, acquire targets rapidly, and make decisions fast.  For me that meant slowing down on the cadence just a bit in order to avoid missing.  Those who didn't do that paid the price. 104 shooters had 7 SDQs, 64 Ps, and a boatload of misses (8 for me, despite my efforts to slow down and aim).  Only three shooters shot the match clean.  

We shot flying clays, swinging targets, a charging buffalo, saved an outlaw pardner from being hanged, and rattled down the curved, bumpy track of the ore cart.  We did a great deal of laughing with good friends, then sat down to a superb barbQ rib banquet.  IMO it was everything a good traditional CAS match should be.   If you prefer redundant stages of stand-and-shoot at close targets, this may be a good one to skip.  But if you like the traditional CAS model, with props, longer shots, and all the trimmings, then this is definitely one to think about for next April.   Pure fun! 

Probably ought to add one more category to your statistics, 1 went to the hospital after taking a bad fall on one of the stages. Snakebite, I hope you recover fully and I’ll see you at Fort Miller next year.

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I have been shooting this game since the mid 80's and have seen it all. I will shoot what I like .The great thing about SASS is there is something for all to enjoy .Pick your match and go have fun. :) :FlagAm:

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21 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

Probably ought to add one more category to your statistics, 1 went to the hospital after taking a bad fall on one of the stages. Snakebite, I hope you recover fully and I’ll see you at Fort Miller next year.

+1 on that.  Hadn't heard anyone got injured.

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3 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Using your own words to describe the match and shooting proficiency of participants, 

Looks like only 3 Cowboys were worth their leather......  :o

Actually, only one of the clean shooters was in the top three.  First place had 1 miss, 1 P.  Second place was clean. Third place had 4 misses, 1 P.  

I generally agree that good shooters can shoot any match competitively.  But that doesn't necessarily mean that a more difficult and overall slower match is not a good thing.   At Ft. Miller, everybody faces the same choices and problems.  The best shooters end with faster times and hopefully less penalties.  Everybody has fun.  What's wrong with that? 

 

(I really wasn't trying to bait any arguments or debates - - just trying to make folks aware that this was, and likely will continue to be, a fun traditional match, for those who either like that sort of thing, or are willing to travel for a really good rib dinner.)

 

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1 hour ago, Yul Lose said:

Probably ought to add one more category to your statistics, 1 went to the hospital after taking a bad fall on one of the stages. Snakebite, I hope you recover fully and I’ll see you at Fort Miller next year.

Our Match Director and good friend, Snakebite, seems to be doing quite well and without major injury after his major fall and facial impact.  (He actually broke a 3" x 2" chip out of the middle of the 2 x 8 boardwalk where he fell.)

 

He came back bruised and hurting  the same day, finished shooting the match the following morning, then assisted in breaking down targets, and then helped with setting up, and MC-ing the awards banquet.

He's headed off for the State Match this coming weekend.  

Wishing him well.  

One tough and very honorable cowboy! 

 

 

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Glad to hear that.  Snakebite is a man to ride the river with.

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1 hour ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Our Match Director and good friend, Snakebite, seems to be doing quite well and without major injury after his major fall and facial impact.  (He actually broke a 3" x 2" chip out of the middle of the 2 x 8 boardwalk where he fell.)

 

He came back bruised and hurting  the same day, finished shooting the match the following morning, then assisted in breaking down targets, and then helped with setting up, and MC-ing the awards banquet.

He's headed off for the State Match this coming weekend.  

Wishing him well.  

One tough and very honorable cowboy! 

 

 

That’s great news for sure!!! When I first heard about it it didn’t sound good, and YES he is a tough and honorable cowboy.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

Glad to hear that.  Snakebite is a man to ride the river with.

Yes He Is.  Fine gentleman, generous mentor, and darned good, knowledgeable shooter.   Very fun to share a Posse with him.  

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale

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sounds really fun , i think i might like that even if i am setting myself up for some poor scores - "its got to be the going not the getting there thats good"

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

Probably ought to add one more category to your statistics, 1 went to the hospital after taking a bad fall on one of the stages. Snakebite, I hope you recover fully and I’ll see you at Fort Miller next year.

A bad fall? What happened?I saw that Snakebite got a SDQ (!) but did not know he had to recover from something. What happened?

 

21 hours ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

Me too MDJ.  I broke two bones in my leg and had to pull out this year.  Great venue, great shoot, great folks.

Good grief! How did that happen?

I especially like the ore cart ride, but never did particularly well on it

Edited by Mad Dog Jack, SASS #77862

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3 minutes ago, Mad Dog Jack, SASS #77862 said:

A bad fall? What happened?I saw that Snakebite got a SDQ (!) but did not know he had to recover from something. What happened?

 

Good grief! How did that happen?

I especially like the ore cart ride, but never did particularly well on it

I wasn’t there but from what I’m told it happened on a stage with a boardwalk and he tripped and fell and cut his chin pretty good and they thought for awhile his jaw may have been broken. Hopefully someone in the know will fill us in. 

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58 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

I wasn’t there but from what I’m told it happened on a stage with a boardwalk and he tripped and fell and cut his chin pretty good and they thought for awhile his jaw may have been broken. Hopefully someone in the know will fill us in. 

I was there, close by, and saw the accident.  He tripped while fast running the boardwalk, carrying his open shotgun between the five shotgun shooting positions.   We couldn't see anything that tripped him, and the deck is in good condition, but in this stage, shooters had to have one eye on the upcoming shooting position, so he possibly wasn't able to also watch the deck below his feet.  He stumbled a couple steps, trying to recover, then went down HARD on his face and chest.  With his hands full, he couldn't catch/attenuate the fall.  He had evident scrapes, cuts and bruises, and at first could not move his jaw - - perhaps dislocated.  The jaw issue seemed resolved after a few minutes, but we were afraid he might have a skull fracture or concussion, or broken ribs, so we insisted he go to the local ER.  Anything medical beyond that he will need to be the one to share. 

 

Suffice it to say that he returned to the range that evening and stayed the night, then unbievably finished shooting the match next morning and co-MCd the awards presentation that evening.  

 

My understanding was that the SDQ occurred because his (unloaded) shotgun muzzle touched the ground. 

 

Last time I spoke with him, he was feeling much better and in good humor.  Some of you are likely to see him at the California State Match, this upcoming weekend.  

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

I was there, close by, and saw the accident.  He tripped while fast running the boardwalk, carrying his open shotgun between the five shotgun shooting positions.   We couldn't see anything that tripped him, and the deck is in good condition, but in this stage, shooters had to have one eye on the upcoming shooting position, so he possibly wasn't able to also watch the deck below his feet.  He stumbled a couple steps, trying to recover, then went down HARD on his face and chest.  With his hands full, he couldn't catch/attenuate the fall.  He had evident scrapes, cuts and bruises, and at first could not move his jaw - - perhaps dislocated.  The jaw issue seemed resolved after a few minutes, but we were afraid he might have a skull fracture or concussion, or broken ribs, so we insisted he go to the local ER.  Anything medical beyond that he will need to be the one to share. 

 

Suffice it to say that he returned to the range that evening and stayed the night, then unbievably finished shooting the match next morning and co-MCd the awards presentation that evening.  

 

My understanding was that the SDQ occurred because his (unloaded) shotgun muzzle touched the ground. 

 

Last time I spoke with him, he was feeling much better and in good humor.  Some of you are likely to see him at the California State Match, this upcoming weekend.  

 

 

 

Thank you for the update. Sounds like he could have been injured a lot worse, glad he’s on the mend and back at it.

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1 hour ago, Mad Dog Jack, SASS #77862 said:

 

 

Good grief! How did that happen?

I especially like the ore cart ride, but never did particularly well on it

Sent you a pm

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My thoughts still remain the same. The good news my thoughts really only matter for one small club so other than that it's just stuff for us to kick around as match directors trying better to entertain our guest. 

 

Too me if I write a match where 104 people attend and 64 P's are tallied up ......that's not 6%. That's more than half the people (or 60%) got a P...…...and that's probably not counting multiple P's as you can only earn one per stage. 

 

There is a rumor that gets tossed around often that the good shooter's prefer fast close targets and easy scenario's and some how that evens the playing field and the rest of the shooters are somehow unaffected by the difficulty factor. What really happens is the top shooter's stage times widen from the rest of the shooter's and everyone's times just get slower and the fun "can" get degraded in the process if you aren't careful. 

 

I love a match that includes challenging stages, far targets, close targets, small targets, large targets, clays birds, knock downs and everything else "a cowboy worth his leather ought to be able to do" but IMO you still want to keep record of misses, P's and SDQ's in order to improve the match for fun vs difficulty level for all.  

 

I hope the sincerity of this is the focus because I understand how much work goes into these matches and I wish ALL the clubs great numbers and fun times so take it for what it is. Just remember the tougher the match is the tougher it is on everyone and IMO you can make them challenging and fun but there is a fine line between challenging and complicated. I use the P's misses and SDQ's as an indicator of that......so it' just kinda' jumped out at me...…….Good luck down the trail. 

 

 

 

 

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I :wub: that match.

 

The permanent props are much fun. I love running down range in the little town. 

 

It sounds, from the penalties, that something different was tried. I'm curious of the SDQ distribution. For example, was one stage troublesome. I know Snakebite and am sure he will evaluate the penalties closely.

 

Get well quickly, pardner!

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20 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Using your own words to describe the match and shooting proficiency of participants, 

Looks like only 3 Cowboys were worth their leather......  :o

Do you have to shoot clean to be considered a good shooter?  If that is the case, I'm a good shooter way less than 10% of the time.   And our #1 shooter at FM wasn't "worth his leather".  I note that some recently on this forum have said "if you shoot clean, you're shooting too slow".  So there are individual choices buried beneath "clean shooting".  

 

All of us want to be excellent at this.  (Some of you who've been at it longer already are).  To get to excellence, we can practice at things like quick target acquisition, functional accuracy, transition smoothness, shooting speed and gun and ammunition refinement.  But it's hard for most of us to practice on moving targets, or shooting from a moving cart or vehicle, so those kinds of things pose challenges even to the best shooters, each time a match includes them. 

 

So in this challenging match, an average of about one person per Posse, per stage (10 stages x 6 Posses) got a "P".  That just doesn't seem so bad to me, considering the wide range of individual abilities involved.   I don't think a traditional match like this can ever compete with matches, that have simpler courses of fire and stationary, closer-in targets, in terms of metrics like numbers of misses or "P"s.   But with that said, I'm not saying that the simpler matches are a slam-dunk.  Even the simplest courses of fire and the biggest, closest targets will still see mistakes, as people try to rush them too fast.   (How many times have I pushed too hard and jacked out rounds, or forgotten to shoot right to left?) 

I personally prefer more challenging stage designs, even if they are slower and have inherent risks of more misses and Ps.  As long as I have some fun along the way, I'm good with all of that.  

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45 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

 

It sounds, from the penalties, that something different was tried. I'm curious of the SDQ distribution. For example, was one stage troublesome

The SDQs mostly related to shooters in motion.  Due to the permanent town layout, many stages had multiple shooting locations.  Shooters inadvertently moved with firearms in unsafe condition.  One was a dropped, unloaded gun, involved with a fall.  

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Hi DDD,

 

That stage has been used for many years without as many SDQs. So, it seems like a shooter issue from my arm chair. ;)

 

Regards,

 

AM

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1 hour ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

I :wub: that match.

 

The permanent props are much fun. I love running down range in the little town. 

 

It sounds, from the penalties, that something different was tried. I'm curious of the SDQ distribution. For example, was one stage troublesome. I know Snakebite and am sure he will evaluate the penalties closely.

 

Get well quickly, pardner!

Looking at the scoreboard, the SDQs were spread out on different stages so no one stage was problematic.  

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Posted (edited)

One last thing I forgot to mention about the match.   Just for fun, and among other really nice prizes, we raffled off a brand new Uberti '73 Winchester, 20" octagon barrel, fully tricked out by Pioneer, with Gen-5 short stroke.  Tickets were limited to 200 @ $20 ea.   

Won by Poison Oakley

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale
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19 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Do you have to shoot clean to be considered a good shooter?  If that is the case, I'm a good shooter way less than 10% of the time.   And our #1 shooter at FM wasn't "worth his leather".  I note that some recently on this forum have said "if you shoot clean, you're shooting too slow".  So there are individual choices buried beneath "clean shooting".  

 

All of us want to be excellent at this.  (Some of you who've been at it longer already are).  To get to excellence, we can practice at things like quick target acquisition, functional accuracy, transition smoothness, shooting speed and gun and ammunition refinement.  But it's hard for most of us to practice on moving targets, or shooting from a moving cart or vehicle, so those kinds of things pose challenges even to the best shooters, each time a match includes them. 

 

So in this challenging match, an average of about one person per Posse, per stage (10 stages x 6 Posses) got a "P".  That just doesn't seem so bad to me, considering the wide range of individual abilities involved.   I don't think a traditional match like this can ever compete with matches, that have simpler courses of fire and stationary, closer-in targets, in terms of metrics like numbers of misses or "P"s.   But with that said, I'm not saying that the simpler matches are a slam-dunk.  Even the simplest courses of fire and the biggest, closest targets will still see mistakes, as people try to rush them too fast.   (How many times have I pushed too hard and jacked out rounds, or forgotten to shoot right to left?) 

I personally prefer more challenging stage designs, even if they are slower and have inherent risks of more misses and Ps.  As long as I have some fun along the way, I'm good with all of that.  

Not to be good shooter......but if you plan on winning the match most of the Top shooter's are clean. Unless the match is really difficult and then the Top shooter might a P (or two) and some misses but they will still win. If you look at most of the folks winning they are clean more often than not. 

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