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Lucky L

45 Colt Black Powder Loads

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Looking for some input into some black powder loads for the 45.  I have tried Black MZ(32.5 grns)...got too much "crack" and recoil than I want!  I also tried Triple 7(FFFG) and it was worse for the "crack" and recoil at 25.5 grns.  I'm looking for the "thump" or "deeper" sound with the black powder.  Fillers...any ideas/suggestions on using fillers in the casing or just fill it to where I get a slight compression when seating the 200 grn bullet?

 

Thanks!

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2 minutes ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

I like APP. Fill to where bullet touches the powder. 

 APP in FF or FFF?  I have been just filling casing to where the bullet just slightly compresses when it is seated...

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FFg regardless of powder, I prefer Goex or Graf's. Fill the case to the base of bullet 1/16"-1/8" compression. If it's still too much recoil use some filler. I find 25gr of Goex FFg topped with lizard litter to be comfortable with plenty of BOOM; in a 44WCF which will be similar to 45 Colt.

 

777 is the hottest of the subs and if you were using FFFg that's part of the reason for the "crack".

 

 

 

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I use grits as a filler with around 28grns of 2f, I save 3f for 38 long colt or percussion pistols. 45 colt and Schofield get 2f make sure with real black you use lube bullets. shotgun gets any leftovers or the cheapest powder you can find.

Rafe

Edited by Rafe Conager SASS #56958

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One of my favorite loads for 45 Colt is; Starline brass and fed standard pistol primer. I use a 24grain spout on a powder flask to dispense GOEX FF in the case. Then a .7cc scoop of cornmeal on top of the powder. Finish with a 250g Biglube bullet full of SPG. Shoots very well in a 66, 73, 92 and several revolvers.

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7 hours ago, Isom Dart, SASS#8096 said:

You want BOOM ,,,,, use real B/P. Case closed.

Isom

 

That pretty much covers it.  I won't waste my time or money on fake black powder.

 

Like Tyrel mentioned, 25 grains of FFg or FFFg and enough lizard litter to compress a little is pretty comfortable in a 44-40 or 45 Colt.

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I used 1cc of FFF APP with the Captain Baylor's backer rod trick for some time. Before that I used 1cc of grits with 1cc of fff APP. I tried holy black with different fillers over the years, but never could get enough lube to keep the barrel from fouling and losing accuracy badly with the tumble lube Lee bullets I cast. 

 

BD

 

 

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I use Goex and Olde E FF you don't need much in the way of powder but you do need filler. 20-25 gr is more than enough. you can use felt wads to fill up the case. corn meal, or grits, I cannot recommend the use of lizard litter. That is crushed walnut hulls and while not very abrasive it is what i use to clean my cases with. and I don't really care to see if it will wear out the throat. I realize that fast draw and mounted shooters use that stuff to hit balloons with. I just don't care to try.  Original black powder cleans up far better than Pyrodex, I know that not what you are using but I've never heard anything good about BP subs other than they are easier to find locally

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If I need a filler with Black Powder, I use fine-grain activated charcoal.   That is of course exactly one component of black powder itself, so it will neither be "more abrasive", nor prone to compress into a solid cake that raises pressures (as most cereals can do).    It adds NO more power to the black powder load, because there is no "extra oxygen" in the BP than just amount needed to burn the black powder's charcoal and sulfur.

 

Besides, that activated charcoal "crunches" just like BP does - so you can hear that you have gotten a little compression when you seat the slug.

 

And no one thinks you are cooking breakfast.

 

Good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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If I may offer another idea, instead of messing with fillers and such, why not try a smaller case/cartridge?  .45 Schofield or .45 Cowboy Special ("Cowboy .45 Special"?  "Special .45 Cowboy"? whatever) both hold less powder than .45 Colt reducing the recoil while you can still get the "boom".  Either will work fine in a .45 Colt caliber revolver.   The Schofield may, and the .45 CS probably won't cycle in a rifle without modification.

 

Angus

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The sound a load makes is pretty subjective.  Try Real BP if you can.  I prefer to avoid fillers and opt for smaller cases and lighter bullets if less recoil is the goal.  In my 45 handguns, I like to use Schofield brass and 230gr bullets.

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Now that Starline has taken up stocking and distribution of C45S,  the cases are easy to get and affordable. Reloading requires some set up and considerations.  The case makes wonderful smokeless loads and even better black powder or sub loads. No fillers required.

 

https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/76283

 

Yes! A full case load of BlackMZ is too powerful!  I load 1cc in my C45S loads and still get tons of smoke and plenty of kick.

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I would have a couple of suggestions.  First would be to drop your powder charge to 20 - 25Gr, made up the rest with Cream-0-Wheat, change to a 160 - 180Gr bullet.  Next would be to reduce your cartridge case size, either to 45 Schofield or Cowboy 45 Special.  Also, 2f will give slightly less felt recoil.  Cowboy 45 Special will be problematic in Rifles.  45 Schofield will run in a Toggle Link rifle with a 200Gr RNFP.  NOTHING shorter.  

 

Triple 7 makes a marvelous garden fertilizer.  Black MZ and APP are very nice BP Substitutes.  C45S cases can be used in Toggle rifles with a custom carrier.

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1 hour ago, Warden Callaway said:

Now that Starline has taken up stocking and distribution of C45S,  the cases are easy to get and affordable. Reloading requires some set up and considerations.  The case makes wonderful smokeless loads and even better black powder or sub loads. No fillers required.

 

https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/76283

 

Yes! A full case load of BlackMZ is too powerful!  I load 1cc in my C45S loads and still get tons of smoke and plenty of kick.

 

+1  I've gone to loading C45S cases in the pistols, which negates the need for any filler.  In a '66 I've gone to using .45 S&W Schofield cases.  The only times I use a .45 Colt case now is the rare times I drag out the '92.  I'll probably end up selling that off and a bunch of .45 cases, whenever I find a round tuit.  

 

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The carrier in the Marlin 1894 45Colt can modified to run C45S. But it still is bad about blow by.  I haven't shot my Marlin 1894 converted to fire C45S since I got 44WCF.  

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Ah, well, annealing your cases will eliminate that pesky Blow-By.  :D

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13 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Ah, well, annealing your cases will eliminate that pesky Blow-By.  :D

 

Did that and went to heavier bullets sized to 454 and roll crimped.  Helped keep crap from peppering my face but inside of gun still stove pipe got black after a match.

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On 4/15/2019 at 8:25 PM, Lucky L said:

or just fill it to where I get a slight compression when seating the 200 grn bullet?

 

Just do what you wrote.

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2.2c Dipper FFG is 32.4 grains. No filler needed when using either a big lube 200 gr or normal length 200 gr from Outlaw or Missouri. 2183E369-6BA1-4D81-B202-A8D68CFEB13D.thumb.jpg.b04c7965897848fad3dd120aa832853f.jpg

Edited by Trooper Ozzy
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Howdy:

I use 37.7 gr. by Weight of Goex 3F drop-tubed in and Compressed under a 255 Gr. RNFP or my 270gr. RNFP soft-cast bullet...OAL 1.608 .... Works in all my .45 Colt guns both long and Short ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

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I normally use 2.2cc of 2F which gives a compressed load using Springfield Slim's Big Lubes. But when I used a filler I used 1/2" caulk backer for filler cutting in lengths that were twice the length of the remaining space in the case to be filled. This was on top of a load of 1.7cc of 2FF. 

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On ‎4‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 1:42 PM, Black Angus McPherson said:

If I may offer another idea, instead of messing with fillers and such, why not try a smaller case/cartridge?  .45 Schofield or .45 Cowboy Special ("Cowboy .45 Special"?  "Special .45 Cowboy"? whatever) both hold less powder than .45 Colt reducing the recoil while you can still get the "boom".  Either will work fine in a .45 Colt caliber revolver.   The Schofield may, and the .45 CS probably won't cycle in a rifle without modification.

 

Angus

 

If shooting only in a pistol, you can also deep seat the bullet in the case.  Just leave enough sticking out of the case so that it is not flush.

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Howdy

 

250 grain Big Lube PRS bullet, and 2.2CC of FFg. Works out to around 33 grains. I like Schuetzen the best. It is the same stuff as Graffs, just a different label on the bottle.

 

45%20Colt%20Components_zpsdor0dqed.jpg

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This is screwy.  :blink:

 

A guy was at the loading table and it looked like his ammo was loaded with wadcutters.  I made mention and he said no, bullets loaded backwards.  Said it reduced case volume (I'm sure that it would)  and that the bullet going out the muzzle backwards reduced recoil (I'm doubtful of that) because of the boattail effect. Looked like he crimped in lowest lube groove. 

 

I've shot with him a lot and never seen him load that way before or after.  I wouldn't call him an expert at reloading.  

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Yes to C45S in .45 LC pistols, smokeless and black powder. You have the option to use bullets intended for .45 ACP which helps with buying options and price. I like SWC bullets. No crimp groove, set your bullet depth, and taper crimp..light roll crimp will work too.

 

RRR

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14 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

A guy was at the loading table and it looked like his ammo was loaded with wadcutters.  I made mention and he said no, bullets loaded backwards.  Said it reduced case volume (I'm sure that it would)  and that the bullet going out the muzzle backwards reduced recoil (I'm doubtful of that) because of the boattail effect. Looked like he crimped in lowest lube groove. 

 

I used to shoot with a guy years ago who used to load his bullets backwards. It's been a long time, but I believe he was shooting 44 Special.  But he was shooting Smokeless. I believe the reason he loaded them backwards was to take up some of the volume in the case. Of course, I hope he had done his homework because the pressure would be different with the reduced case volume.

 

I haven't seem him in a long time, but I don't remember him mentioning anything about reduced recoil.

Edited by Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283

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31 minutes ago, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

 

I used to shoot with a guy years ago who used to load his bullets backwards. It's been a long time, but I believe he was shooting 44 Special.  But he was shooting Smokeless. I believe the reason he loaded them backwards was to take up some of the volume in the case. Of course, I hope he had done his homework because the pressure would be different with the reduced case volume.

 

I haven't seem him in a long time, but I don't remember him mentioning anything about reduced recoil.

 

I didn't mention it but his loads were smokeless also.  

 

With black powder,   all you'd need to do is follow the same rules of slight compression.   With smokeless,  you're on your own. Maybe get buy with wadcutter loading data?

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