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What is the Call - Loading more than 2 shotgun shells in 97?

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24 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

Hi Brazos.  

 

The 87 and 97 were designed and built for Market hunters.  Nothing at all to do with "cowboys."  As has been mentioned, the original rule for NOT stoking the 97 was done to eliminate the perceived advantage over SxS shotguns. 

 

Howdy, Colorado, and anyone else that might know,

Tell me more about the market hunters.

I know about the buffalo hunters, but who used shotguns?

I googled it, but didn't find any useful hits.

 

"Perceived" is right.

I've seen SxS shooters that can load 2 and shoulder just as fast as I could shoulder and pump once.

And stoking on the clock takes forever, but blasting away with a full magazine sure is fun.

And still, that's how they would have done it back then.

 

 

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Hi again Brazos,

 

Way back in the Wabac (Sherman and the Perfesser) the Eastern and Central "Flyways" were plagued by "Market Hunters."  The "Flyways" are the routes the migratory water fowl use for their Winter and Spring migration.  Market Hunters would shoot anywhere from 250 to 500 birds a day and then sell them to various "markets" much like Chickens are.  The practice also gave rise to the "Punt Gun" which was an enormous shot gun with about a 2 inch bore.  The gun was attached to a small boat, called a "Punt" (hence the name) and was used to ground sluce entire flocks of birds resting on the ponds and streams.

 

The practice of Market Hunting (slaughter, really) very nearly wiped out the populations of migrating Ducks and Geese.  The near loss of those wild fowl resources are why we now have bag limits and repeating shotguns are limited to two rounds in magazine.  ALL repeating shotguns in this country are required to have plugs in the magazine, reducing capacity to two.  Getting caught with an un-plug'd magazine in most jurisdictions will result in loss of license, loss of gun, and a hefty fine.

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Posted (edited)

My great uncle was a market hunter. Here is a Ducks Unlimited article about him. It tells a lot about the history of market hunting. The pdf version may be easier to read, download and open.

DucksUnlimitedUncleFlorine.pdf

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Edited by Flash
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Thanks, Colorado,

I never knew the history of the market hunters. Thanks.

I lived West of Houston 20 years ago, and the Canadian Geese would land in the rice fields just north of my house. When they took off and flew over, you could hear the flapping of their wings. It was incredible! There were thousands of them, spread over the rice fields. I even heard whoopers flying over, but never saw them land.

Since I moved away from the Katy Prairie, they have built houses, schools, and, of course, a Wallyworld.

I guess the migratory route either shifted West, or they fly over Katy now. It's too bad. They were so cool.

 

Thanks, Flash,

I started into the article, but I'll have to get back to work, so I saved it.

Your great-uncle sounds like an amazing man. It was a whole different world back then.

And as much as I like the cowboy days, I don't think I could have kept up with any of those men back then.

 

Thank ya both for the info.

I bet that I'm not the only one that learned a thing or two.

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FLASH!!!  :D

 

Thanks a bunchier that article.  My Uncle ran a Duck Club just south of Sacramento California on the Pacific Flyway.  Most of the year his land was planted for rice.  Come Duck Season, the "Tanks" were set up with blinds for the well-too-do folks from Sacramento and San Francisco.  I spent a goodly number of weekend mornings freezing my toes off, sitting in a blind shooting Ducks and Geese.  Part of the year, he released Pheasants.  Some really great shooting!!

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I know one T.O. that allowed stoking the 1897 everytime I shot there with no penalty. I shoot at one club that allows it on the clock now and one that allows it but with a 10 second procedural, not a big deal because I’m not a threat to anyone but myself. Stoke em if you brought em and if people get their lacey pink ones in a wad, so what!!!

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On 4/16/2019 at 3:35 PM, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

As to why you don't preload your shotgun like a rifle, well, that does make sense to me.  Allowing 87 and 97 shooters to do that would truly give them an unfair advantage over folks using a SxS. 

 

 

I wish I could find the video of Widder, Red Knee, and Missouri Traveler from the TN state match year before last. Had 3 WB shooters with stoked shotguns challenge them in a SG shootoff. I think it was 21 knockdowns if memory serves. Those 3 fellas beat the stoked shotgunners even with Red Knee and Traveler having Widder on their team:ph34r:. That sure was a good state match. Y'all come on out this October and check it out.

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Posted (edited)

TN,

that video is somewhere on YouTube but I can't seem to find it.

You are correct,  Red Knee, Traveler and myself were challenged by 3 other WB 97 shooters.

They started with SG's stoked with 6 each and we started with SG in hand and other hand touching shells in belt.

 

We edged em out just by a split second when I engaged our final KD, which fell just before they put their

last SG target down.

 

The other team was Cardboard Cowboy, Billy the Avenger, and Slater.

 

It was a hoot!

 

P.S. - that was when Traveler and Red Knee were in their prime..... :lol:

 

..........Widder

 

Edited by Widder, SASS #59054
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17 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

TN,

that video is somewhere on YouTube but I can't seem to find it.

You are correct,  Red Knee, Traveler and myself were challenged by 3 other WB 97 shooters.

They started with SG's stoked with 6 each and we started with SG in hand and other hand touching shells in belt.

 

We edged em out just by a split second when I engaged our final KD, which fell just before they put their

last SG target down.

 

The other team was Cardboard Cowboy, Billy the Avenger, and Slater.

 

It was a hoot!

 

P.S. - that was when Traveler and Red Knee were in their prime..... :lol:

 

..........Widder

 

Widder that was before Red Knee got his knee fixed. He may really be in his prime now! Do you know if he is coming to Wartrace this year?

 

Imis

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I always ask first, if the stage isn't specifically written for it... but it is so much fun (and so much slower) to stoke my 10 ga 1887 full and let the smoke and fire fly on at least one stage!

 

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5 hours ago, Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 said:

Widder that was before Red Knee got his knee fixed. He may really be in his prime now! Do you know if he is coming to Wartrace this year?

 

Imis

 

Red Knee sez he's comin.   Sez he's gonna whoop me this year.

I say thats a bunch of doodly squat!

 

..........Widder

 

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6 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

Red Knee sez he's comin.   Sez he's gonna whoop me this year.

I say thats a bunch of doodly squat!

 

..........Widder

 

So, you need to put a bounty out on him this time :D

 

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Posted (edited)

 

I will admit that I once shot a match at a place in Pennsylvania that allowed for stoking on every stage.   I really enjoyed it.  The most fun I had was on one specific stage where the instructions were to successfully hit any 6 of the 8 shotgun targets. in any order. 

 

Target 1 was a knockdown.

Target 2 was a clay that was thrown upwards by 1 falling.

Targets 3 and 4 were identical to 1 and 2.

5 thru 8 were clay targets that were set on a stand.

 

So, I loaded up my 97 with 6 rounds and shot 8, 7, 6, 5, 3,1  ignoring the fliers.  I was one of the last shooters on that stage, and nobody else had tried it that way.   Comments ranged from "Why didn't I think of that?" to "Is that legal?"  The decision was that I followed the stage instructions as written.   It was a hoot.

Edited by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

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10 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

I will admit that I once shot a match at a place in Pennsylvania that allowed for stoking on every stage.   I really enjoyed it.  The most fun I had was on one specific stage where the instructions were to successfully hit any 6 of the 8 shotgun targets. in any order. 

 

Target 1 was a knockdown.

Target 2 was a clay that was thrown upwards by 1 falling.

Targets 3 and 4 were identical to 1 and 2.

5 thru 8 were clay targets that were set on a stand.

 

So, I loaded up my 97 with 6 rounds and shot 8, 7, 6, 5, 3,1  ignoring the fliers.  I was one of the last shooters on that stage, and nobody else had tried it that way.   Comments ranged from "Why didn't I think of that?" to "Is that legal?"  The decision was that I followed the stage instructions as written.   It was a hoot.

Yep, sometimes having fun means stepping out of the box and doing things different but within the rules. Stoking the 97 is a whole bunch of fun, not the fastest but fun none the less.

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On 4/16/2019 at 5:02 PM, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

ALL repeating shotguns in this country are required to have plugs in the magazine, reducing capacity to two.  Getting caught with an un-plug'd magazine in most jurisdictions will result in loss of license, loss of gun, and a hefty fine.

 

Yup. A number of years ago I was duck hunting in Missouri and a game warden motored up to our blind. Wanted to check ammo to make sure it was steel shot as well as magazine capacity. No problem of course. Afterward I was thinking it must take a certain kind of man who's willing to approach two armed strangers in a remote slough.

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