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43 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I'm not going to shame anyone...besides, I've never seen a membership form that stated that the person signing it will need to donate "X" amount of time to the club.

 

Of course-because it should already be understood Phantom.  The membership form is not a lease agreement.  When you are a member of a club, you support it beyond showing up. If you don't see that, you've never been more than a dues paying member of that club.

 

I learned that over 36 years ago, now just back from my reunion as a Founding Father.  So yeah, this organization thing ain't my first rodeo.

From experience, if everyone "just shows up?" Have a cowboy of a time shooting dirt berms. 

 

And yes, support can be financial (but beyond the club dues) or other donations.  It can be food, it can be props that people build, or even donating their house as the spot for the yearly club BBQ.  There are 100 ways you show support for your club.   Heck, it can even be entertainment, splaying an instrument or something that makes everyone smile and laugh at your local match.  You want to know how you can also support your club?  Bring a new member.

 

So I joined my local CAS and then SASS.  I agreed to the rules of the road of an organization that I think has value.  I went out first to see the people here locally in West Texas and liked what I saw.  My endorsement brought another, Nelson (Balthazar, a +1 right there).  I will check NM next.

 

At the end of the day, the post asked for advice and I gave it.  So y'all do what you want with your own organizations,  b/c at the end of the day, you ALL own it and the club's outcome (whether you like it or not).

 

Goodnight y'all.  Sleep well--

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Last month I shot my first two gun match.   It was a four stage match and we were done about one pm.   There were four squads of shooters.   We were the second squad to finish the match and picked up our stage while two other squads were still shooting.   The range has a large fence and a gate that opens with a combination.   This club locked the gate and nobody was allowed to leave until all the stagers were cleaned up.   I never had that happen before.   Bullett 19707

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362
Just now, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Locked you in? Wow, sounds like an interesting policy...

Yikes!

Time to find another club.  :FlagAm:

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1 hour ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Locked you in? Wow, sounds like an interesting policy...

Yikes!

Well now?  Ain't that shameful...  :ph34r:

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7 hours ago, Bullett Sass 19707 said:

Last month I shot my first two gun match.   It was a four stage match and we were done about one pm.   There were four squads of shooters.   We were the second squad to finish the match and picked up our stage while two other squads were still shooting.   The range has a large fence and a gate that opens with a combination.   This club locked the gate and nobody was allowed to leave until all the stagers were cleaned up.   I never had that happen before.   Bullett 19707

I would never return and if I had bolt cutters they would need a new lock.

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11 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

What do you see as shameful?

Morning RM. Regards a sideline convo w/i this thread. PM if you don't want the short version or read through my previous postings here.  Take care 'Pard--

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I would consider that insulting and respond in like.

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I don't really expect folks that live an hour away to drive to drive up to our range and help with set up. Some of the locals just show up and help. I live across the road from the range, I have a pretty good system for setting up the match. Those that help usually will get a free shoot to our annual match and meals.

 

Here's my take on helping out with anything. "If you work hard and do your share you are entitled to an opinion, if you don't do squat your opinion doesn't mean squat."  So, if you show up and don't like my, scenarios, target distances, and all the movement come out and help and you will have a say in how things are set up. Otherwise, your voice is just white noise. 

 

 

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362

  Lately I have  detected  IDPA , IPSC vibes  on the wire.  Probably nothing , maybe just the change in the weather.

 

 Well shooting season has arrived I will be testing a few new loads this weekend and I am ready to enjoy the game.

 

 New hips , back surgery, and spinal injections to keep me going Isn't old age wonderful. ;) :FlagAm:

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7 hours ago, David Balthazar said:

I would consider that insulting and respond in like.

Because I said it was an "interesting policy" to lock folks in? And the word "yikes"? You had better look at other responses.

And that "interesting policy" WILL drive folks away. 

I had other descriptions for this club's actions, but I kept them to myself.

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2 hours ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Because I said it was an "interesting policy" to lock folks in? And the word "yikes"? You had better look at other responses.

And that "interesting policy" WILL drive folks away. 

I had other descriptions for this club's actions, but I kept them to myself.

It's called 'False Imprisonment', and can result in criminal and civil charges being brought forth.

Sure hope charges were filed.

OLG

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Not to mention the safety aspect of it. What happens if someone is hurt and the ambulance is greeted by a locked gate. Not smart.

Didn't mean to ruffle feathers, just meant it was kind of odd to hold folks until teardown is over.

I, absolutely think folks should help with teardown in some capacity, but that's a little extreme. My opinion.

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I apologize Rainmaker if I was not clear--but I said "like" not "yike" unless I missed something again?

To be 100% clear, I am against a CAS/SASS club locking it's members in to clean a range!

 

 

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is 

13 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I think you two, and me and OLG are in agreement.

 

I think the Earth just stopped spin'n.........:lol:

 

OLG

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I do what I can.  If that is not enough it is time for me to mosey on down the road and close the SASS chapter of my life.

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4 hours ago, Desert Pete SASS #42168 said:

I do what I can.  If that is not enough it is time for me to mosey on down the road and close the SASS chapter of my life.

Thats all anyone asks! "Above all, do something!"

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On 4/10/2019 at 10:15 PM, Bullett Sass 19707 said:

Last month I shot my first two gun match.   It was a four stage match and we were done about one pm.   There were four squads of shooters.   We were the second squad to finish the match and picked up our stage while two other squads were still shooting.   The range has a large fence and a gate that opens with a combination.   This club locked the gate and nobody was allowed to leave until all the stagers were cleaned up.   I never had that happen before.   Bullett 19707


I'd a shot the lock of the gate, But not before having a talk with the RSO and questioning his heritage and upbringing. The way I look at it the lock did it's job but if the owner will not unlock it well I guess the lock is going to die

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As a member of my club, and being the MD for Cowboy trying to get SASS re-established at my club, the absolutely last thing I will do is insult either the club members that come to shoot or the guests that come to our match.  At this point, we have a small match with about 10 people coming out per match.  With the weather we've been having, that's not bad and I think we'll be into the 15 range by the summer.  With that number, we shoot on one bay and change the setup every two to three stages.  We're getting new shooters out, and they are still getting into the rhythm of how a match works and at the same time being new to how their guns work.  Things I see easily are still confusing to them.  

 

My wife, who does not shoot,  and I start setting up the stages early and I get some help from other club members.  My goal is to have the match set before the shooters arrive.  I consider it bad form for people to drive for a couple of hours and then expect them to set up steel.  They are my, and the clubs, guests.  Nothing is set in concrete, and if I'm having physical problems, I may call and ask for additional help, but I try to not do that unless it's a last resort.

 

I have recovered from two ruptured achilles tendons, a bad knee strain and have chronic foot and back problems.  That doesn't stop me from running the Cowboy matches, shooting, and enjoying life in general.  I can't do it by myself, but do get enough help from the club and cowboys to make it go.

 

I ask everybody to do what they can.  Sometimes a bit of prompting in done to get people to pick brass or spot, but I've never had anyone say no.  The biggest help is at the end of the match to put steel away.  By then, I'm about done.  I have not been disappointed with the help at the end of the match.  Not everybody can haul steel, but picking up mats and other light work is not that hard and gets the job done. 

 

On away matches, I'll do whatever is needed to keep the match going.  At some clubs I'll run the timer 1/2 of the time and pick brass or spot the rest. For closer matches, I'll help breakdown the setups. For matches are a 2 1/2 to 3 hour drive and I'll leave as soon as I can get my gear loaded.   I think most people understand that someone 67 with a long drive needs to get home as rested and safely as possible.

 

NNV

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4 hours ago, Son of the Midnight Star said:


I'd a shot the lock of the gate, But not before having a talk with the RSO and questioning his heritage and upbringing. The way I look at it the lock did it's job but if the owner will not unlock it well I guess the lock is going to die

Well since no one else has asked I guess I will. Have you shot any CAS matches yet? I haven’t seen you at Dulzura, Escondido, Norco or Cajon. We’re shooting at the Dulzura Desperados tomorrow and I’d love to meet you. You seem to be pretty opinionated on the way things should be done and judging by your SASS # you’re fairly new to CAS and SASS. Should you choose to shoot with the Escondido Bandidos on the first Saturday of the month you will be locked in after about 11:00am and to get out you have to sit in front of a gate that opens very slowly and shooting the lock off will get you permanently banned from the range. Maybe you ought to come out to the ranges mentioned above and see first hand how CAS operates and then after you’ve tried it a few times you might have a better understanding of how it works. Nearly every range has different built in range rules that they have to abide by and criticizing those built in range rules might not be the thing to do.

 

Should you show up at Dulzura tomorrow most everybody knows who I am and they’ll point me out to you. I look forward to meeting you.

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4 hours ago, Son of the Midnight Star said:


I'd a shot the lock of the gate, But not before having a talk with the RSO and questioning his heritage and upbringing. The way I look at it the lock did it's job but if the owner will not unlock it well I guess the lock is going to die

We will be having our first and last match as a SASS affiliated club this Sunday. Our club was killed by opinions such as this. The match director has resigned. I agreed to put on this match but will do no more. I will not spend my summer mowing and building for folks that only come, shoot and leave.

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44 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

Well since no one else has asked I guess I will. Have you shot any CAS matches yet? I haven’t seen you at Dulzura, Escondido, Norco or Cajon. We’re shooting at the Dulzura Desperados tomorrow and I’d love to meet you. You seem to be pretty opinionated on the way things should be done and judging by your SASS # you’re fairly new to CAS and SASS. Should you choose to shoot with the Escondido Bandidos on the first Saturday of the month you will be locked in after about 11:00am and to get out you have to sit in front of a gate that opens very slowly and shooting the lock off will get you permanently banned from the range. Maybe you ought to come out to the ranges mentioned above and see first hand how CAS operates and then after you’ve tried it a few times you might have a better understanding of how it works. Nearly every range has different built in range rules that they have to abide by and criticizing those built in range rules might not be the thing to do.

 

Should you show up at Dulzura tomorrow most everybody knows who I am and they’ll point me out to you. I look forward to meeting you.


No sir I've yet to shoot a single match and at this point i'm beginning to think twice about where I decide to shoot.  I'm brand new to this and things like this sure ain't making a new guy feel very welcome. A locked gate to keep people out is one thing I understand the landscape up there and the need to keep outsiders out but the post stated the gentleman was not allowed to leave. What part of felony False Imprisonment needs to be explained further?  You cannot condone holding anyone captive till the range is cleaned up. that's lunacy. and you'll end up in prison 

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24 minutes ago, Hillbilly Drifter said:

We will be having our first and last match as a SASS affiliated club this Sunday. Our club was killed by opinions such as this. The match director has resigned. I agreed to put on this match but will do no more. I will not spend my summer mowing and building for folks that only come, shoot and leave.

 

No sir you miss understand

In my other shooting discipline I show up early and stay late to help set up and tear down.  But I will not be held against my will. and that was the statement that you missed in the post. the competitor was not allowed to leave until the range was cleaned up. you can not hold anyone captive. That's false imprisonment. 

If everyone that showed up decided to leave without helping well it sucks but thats life. maybe take note of the names and don't allow them back. but holding someone hostage?? no sir Unacceptable. 

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18 minutes ago, Son of the Midnight Star said:


No sir I've yet to shoot a single match and at this point i'm beginning to think twice about where I decide to shoot.  I'm brand new to this and things like this sure ain't making a new guy feel very welcome. A locked gate to keep people out is one thing I understand the landscape up there and the need to keep outsides out but the post stated the gentleman was not allowed to leave. What part of felony False Imprisonment needs to be explained further?  You can not condone holding anyone captive till the range is cleaned up. that's lunacy. and you'll end up in prison 

As I thought. Now regarding the individual that was allegedly locked in until things were cleaned up you have a point. You’re good at painting with a broad brush and evidently feel that every range is that way based on your comments about making a new guy feel welcome. Norco, Cajon and Dulzura gates are open until the end of the day so you need not have any fear of being locked in against your will. Escondido’s gate just opens real slow and you can read whatever you want into that. Don’t be a stranger.

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33 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

As I thought. Now regarding the individual that was allegedly locked in until things were cleaned up you have a point. You’re good at painting with a broad brush and evidently feel that every range is that way based on your moments about making a new guy feel welcome. Norco, Cajon and Dulzura gates are open until the end of the day so you need not have any fear of being locked in against your will. Escondido’s gate just opens real slow and you can read whatever you want into that. Don’t be a stranger.


Sir I'm not trying to get off on the wrong foot. I'm not assuming every range or club is the same And i'm not sure how that came across. Nor am i a loose cannon waiting to pick a fight. Please understand that the shooting off of a lock has a lot of ramifications to go along with it. Ramifications that I don't take lightly. That said, If I was in the situation that Bullet posted, I would have asked about the lock, talked about the lock, argued about the lock, yelled about the lock, and if need be shoot the damn thing off. but only as an absolute last resort knowing full well i just might go to jail over it. No. You know what? I take that back. I wouldn't shoot the lock off. I'd call the Sheriff and file a complaint for false Imprisonment. See if the match director would like to spend a few nights in jail. Not worth the bullet nor my time in the pokie. The only thing I read into Escondido's gate opening slowly is the motor that opens it is geared low. No inference taken. 

Im located in National city and would most likely be shooting at south bay rod and gun. It will most likely be May before I can get out and make a fool of myself. I'd be pleased to meet you Sir. 

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4 minutes ago, Son of the Midnight Star said:


Sir I'm not trying to get off on the wrong foot. I'm not assuming every range or club is the same And i'm not sure how that came across. Nor am i a loose cannon waiting to pick a fight. Please understand that the shooting off of a lock has a lot of ramifications to go along with it. Ramifications that I don't take lightly. That said, If I was in the situation that Bullet posted, I would have asked about the lock, talked about the lock, argued about the lock, yelled about the lock, and if need be shoot the damn thing off. but only as an absolute last resort knowing full well i just might go to jail over it. No you know what I take that back. I wouldn't shoot the lock off. I'd call the Sheriff and file a complaint for false Imprisonment. See if the match director would like to spend a few nights in jail. Not worth the bullet nor my time in the pokie. The only thing I read into Escondido's gate opening slowly is the motor that opens it is geared low. No inference taken. 

Im located in National city and would most likely be shooting at south bay rod and gun. It will most likely be May before I can get out and make a fool of myself. I'd be pleased to meet you Sir. 

South Bay Rod and Gun would be The Dulzura Desperados and they’re shooting tomorrow. Come out if you a

can, if not tomorrow May is good too. Plenty of us make fools of ourselves, here on The Wire and at our matches so don’t let that stop you. Two Gun ain’t CAS and we won’t abuse you, might pick on you and pull your whiskers but that’s about it and after the match we go to a great pizza joint. 

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1 minute ago, Yul Lose said:

South Bay Rod and Gun would be The Dulzura Desperados and they’re shooting tomorrow. Come out if you a

can, if not tomorrow May is good too. Plenty of us make fools of ourselves, here on The Wire and at our matches so don’t let that stop you. Two Gun ain’t CAS and we won’t abuse you, might pick on you and pull your whiskers but that’s about it and after the match we go to a great pizza joint. 

Two gun ain't CAS, thats for sure, and that the one reason I've yet to get out. It took some time getting all the guns to do this. damn 30day BS with California and hand guns as you know.  I'm thick skinned so it'll be tough to hurt my feelings. Taken the daughter to the desert tomorrow getting her up to speed with the 1873 rifle and some light loads. Shes 11 so it''l be some time before she can get involved but if she can handle a light 45 colt load she can borrow my stuff for match. it will be May for sure though. It'll be a pleasure to meet you and sorry if i came off the wrong way. 

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9 minutes ago, Son of the Midnight Star said:

Two gun ain't CAS, thats for sure, and that the one reason I've yet to get out. It took some time getting all the guns to do this. damn 30day BS with California and hand guns as you know.  I'm thick skinned so it'll be tough to hurt my feelings. Taken the daughter to the desert tomorrow getting her up to speed with the 1873 rifle and some light loads. Shes 11 so it''l be some time before she can get involved but if she can handle a light 45 colt load she can borrow my stuff for match. it will be May for sure though. It'll be a pleasure to meet you and sorry if i came off the wrong way. 

She might surprise you. Bring her with you. We had a young lady about her age start shooting Cowboy and went on to  become a world champion up at Escondido, you never know.

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13 minutes ago, Son of the Midnight Star said:

Two gun ain't CAS, thats for sure, and that the one reason I've yet to get out. It took some time getting all the guns to do this. damn 30day BS with California and hand guns as you know.  I'm thick skinned so it'll be tough to hurt my feelings. Taken the daughter to the desert tomorrow getting her up to speed with the 1873 rifle and some light loads. Shes 11 so it''l be some time before she can get involved but if she can handle a light 45 colt load she can borrow my stuff for match. it will be May for sure though. It'll be a pleasure to meet you and sorry if i came off the wrong way. 

If you folks know she's coming I'd bet they'll bring some extra 38's for her.

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2 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

She might surprise you. Bring her with you. We had a young lady about her age start shooting Cowboy and went on to  become a world champion up at Escondido, you never know.

 

Will do. 

Take care and see you soon

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Just now, Tyrel Cody said:

If you folks know she's coming I'd bet they'll bring some extra 38's for her.

 

Yeah I been kicking around the idea of 38 caliber for her. I’ve got a good supply of everything needed to make a few thousand reloads 

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