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Joe Cross, SASS #13848 L

Gunfighter - crossing arms over while shooting

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1 hour ago, Attica Jack #23953 said:

Matthew, if the shooter pumps the guns as some gunfighters do, he has crossed one of his arms with a loaded gun, just my thoughts.   I use  a cross draw holster set up, and it was pointed out to me many years ago, that when I drew my cross draw gun I swept my arm with a loaded gun, now I make sure it is out of the way.

This is the potential with a new GF. But it does not break the 170 and the gun is not cocked < >45 degrees down range. I have watched a couple of heavy pumping GF'ers - Duelist's  shoot over the berm (which is a safety issue). If you have an excessive crossover technique, your pushing the potential for a safety issue, but you have not committed a safety till you pull the trigger.

 

If you see someone pointing a gun at any part of themselves while shooting, it would be a good idea to point that out to them rather than try to figure out some penalty to impose. I have people tell me when I get close to the 170, or close to still moving when I close my shotgun. You don't need a broken rule to say something. When you push your limits, you come as close as you can from crossing the line...

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5 hours ago, Blast Masterson said:

This is the potential with a new GF. But it does not break the 170 and the gun is not cocked < >45 degrees down range. I have watched a couple of heavy pumping GF'ers - Duelist's  shoot over the berm (which is a safety issue). If you have an excessive crossover technique, your pushing the potential for a safety issue, but you have not committed a safety till you pull the trigger.

 

If you see someone pointing a gun at any part of themselves while shooting, it would be a good idea to point that out to them rather than try to figure out some penalty to impose. I have people tell me when I get close to the 170, or close to still moving when I close my shotgun. You don't need a broken rule to say something. When you push your limits, you come as close as you can from crossing the line...

where do the rules state that you can't sweep yourself?

 

Thanks!

 

Phantom

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The idea is to have a SAFE match....always be safe, period.    Rules say you can't sweep any one, if you are a shooter, then you are someone, correct?  If a shooter sweeps him/herself, point it out to them, as it was for me sweeping myself during pulling my gun from a cross draw holster, and I corrected the problem.   In our sport we play with real guns, and live ammo.  I would not want a shooter to accidentally shoot them selves in the arm, and say "I didn't know I could not do that."   Lawyers would be salivating over that.   Keep it safe.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Blast Masterson said:

This is the potential with a new GF. But it does not break the 170 and the gun is not cocked < >45 degrees down range. I have watched a couple of heavy pumping GF'ers - Duelist's  shoot over the berm (which is a safety issue). If you have an excessive crossover technique, your pushing the potential for a safety issue, but you have not committed a safety till you pull the trigger.

 

If you see someone pointing a gun at any part of themselves while shooting, it would be a good idea to point that out to them rather than try to figure out some penalty to impose. I have people tell me when I get close to the 170, or close to still moving when I close my shotgun. You don't need a broken rule to say something. When you push your limits, you come as close as you can from crossing the line...

Respectfully - one comment and one question.

 

It may be your goal to not crossover but I know several gunfighters/outlaws who do it that way because they like to, so not crossing over is not a universal rule.

 

When you mention excessive crossover and that not being a safety issue until the trigger is pulled what infraction are you referencing?

Edited by Captain Bill Burt

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Hey guys, we all know discussions and opinions can get heated.  So, please back off just moment, take a breath, stay on topic, and not each other.

 

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4 hours ago, Attica Jack #23953 said:

Rules say you can't sweep any one, if you are a shooter, then you are someone, correct? 

 

No.  I coulda swore "You can't sweep yourself" was in the rulebook but I can't find it now.  So either it was in an old version, or I'm remembering something said on the wire.  I had to ask for clarification because that sentence can be taken 2 ways.  Either that it's not allowed, or that it's not sweeping if you point your gun at yourself.  I was told it was the second thing.  But like you said, when you see it, you should absolutely let the person know. 

 

The first couple of times the rulebook mentions sweeping (in the safety section) it does spell out "other participants" and "another shooter".  All other times it says "anyone" or "someone". 

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Most of us are going to sweep ourselves at some point in a draw.  If it's a cross draw it may be your lower abdomen or upper leg. If it's a straight hang it may be one of your feet, but the muzzle sweeps some part of the body.  The holster may be in the way if that comforts you, but the gun is still pointing at some part of your body.

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What Mr. Captain just said. Crossdraw shooters seem to do it a lot when reholstering with their weak hand.

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49 minutes ago, Major B. S. Walker said:

What Mr. Captain just said. Crossdraw shooters seem to do it a lot when reholstering with their weak hand.

Hmmm...if one is sweeping their gut, then they're probably breaking the 180 rule.

 

:o

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Or one step away to a new gender

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3 hours ago, Major B. S. Walker said:

What Mr. Captain just said. Crossdraw shooters seem to do it a lot when reholstering with their weak hand.

Yeah when I shot crossdraw I had my left foot pretty far forward and my holster close to my centerline. That and the results of Shootin Sharyn’s good cooking could lead to a self sweep.

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1 minute ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Yeah when I shot crossdraw I had my left foot pretty far forward and my holster close to my centerline. That and the results of Shootin Sharyn’s good cooking could lead to a self sweep.

That's fine, but if one turns their pistol towards their holster right after grabbing it with their weak hand, they are more than likely bringing it to their holster at a degree exceeding 180. Basically they'd be pointing the muzzle at themselves as they bring it to their holster.

 

That would be a 180 violation regardless of where they wear their x-draw holster.

 

Phantom

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I too, when I shot crossdraw with my large belly my left foot was so far forward there was no way to holster weak handed without sweeping my leg (and not breaking the 170).

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I've got big feet and I probably sweep them every time I draw and reholster.  As a Gunfighter, the few times I have crossed my pistols was the result of badgering from my associates.  It slows me way down because missing while doing that only adds to the laughter.

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I'm fortunate enough to regularly posse with a number of outlaw shooters like TN Tombstone and Loose Cinch.  I'm a respectable gunfighter, but I'm in awe of these guys when they can pull off multiple crossovers.

 

Normally Tombstone will say something to me like, "watch and learn" and proceeds to be very entertaining.  There is no speed advantage to crossovers; in fact it takes much more time.  The style points are well worth the extra seconds.       

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39 minutes ago, TN Mongo, SASS #61450 said:

I'm fortunate enough to regularly posse with a number of outlaw shooters like TN Tombstone and Loose Cinch.  I'm a respectable gunfighter, but I'm in awe of these guys when they can pull off multiple crossovers.

 

Normally Tombstone will say something to me like, "watch and learn" and proceeds to be very entertaining.  There is no speed advantage to crossovers; in fact it takes much more time.  The style points are well worth the extra seconds.       

It's definitely fun to watch those two shoot!

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12 hours ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

I've got big feet and I probably sweep them every time I draw and reholster.  As a Gunfighter, the few times I have crossed my pistols was the result of badgering from my associates.  It slows me way down because missing while doing that only adds to the laughter.

 

....and here ya go!

 

 

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Wish I had a video of TBone doing his concurrent Nevada sweep on 3 targets with 2 pistols starting on both ends.

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1 hour ago, Yusta B. said:

Wish I had a video of TBone doing his concurrent Nevada sweep on 3 targets with 2 pistols starting on both ends.

Or something like this...

 

 

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1 hour ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

Or something like this...

 

 

 

Far out ;)

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Now that I've seen video of what you're talking about, I'm 125% sure that if I tried it, I'd be aiming with the wrong eye. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

Now that I've seen video of what you're talking about, I'm 125% sure that if I tried it, I'd be aiming with the wrong eye. 

 

Aiming?  I think he would look like Marty Feldman if he were aiming.  

image.png.ea52518429a863a3a3217428368f0afc.png

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Thanks Branchwater - I'm lucky enough to get to watch that kind of stuff every month at the Bar 3. That alone is worth the price of the shoot !!

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On April 8, 2019 at 8:08 AM, Attica Jack #23953 said:

Matthew, if the shooter pumps the guns as some gunfighters do, he has crossed one of his arms with a loaded gun, just my thoughts.   I use  a cross draw holster set up, and it was pointed out to me many years ago, that when I drew my cross draw gun I swept my arm with a loaded gun, now I make sure it is out of the way.

 

OP stated shooter did NOT "pump" the pistols.

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