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Subdeacon Joe

They Drive You To Drink

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Posted (edited)

Machinists, fabricators, and mechanics will probably find a special place in heaven!!  Those that do will forgive engineers ........................................ when those engineers are eventually released from their own special place!  <_< :rolleyes: :lol:

Edited by Blackwater 53393
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In the finance world, we are frequently the go between for the engineers and the mechanics.  The mechanics are telling us why it costs so much more to do what the engineers created and the engineers are upset the mechanics aren't following the instructions they were given.  It never ends......:rolleyes:

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8 minutes ago, Calamity Kris said:

the engineers are upset the mechanics aren't following the instructions they were given. 

 

 

That's often because if you follow the directions whatever it is will self-destruct.

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When working as a Cabinet Maker, I was presented a job by the Engineer/Project manager for a display/sales unit for a high end retailer of ladies leather goods.  I complained about the drawings and was told by the engineer to "Build it EXACTLY the way I designed it."  So I did.  there was no way to get product into or out of the cabinet.  No doors at all.  The reactions when they were ready to ship was priceless. 

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7 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

"Build it EXACTLY the way I designed it."

 

We have one customer who will give us a drawing that is clearly in inches, but the block says "DIMENSIONS ARE METRIC."

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I have build many electrical and electronic panels and test benches per engineering instructions. 

 

I have made lots of money on overtime fixing what I have built per engineering instructions. :D

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5 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I have build many electrical and electronic panels and test benches per engineering instructions. 

 

I have made lots of money on overtime fixing what I have built per engineering instructions. :D

 

I have had instances where I took the engineers into the shop to work with the mechanics to understand WHY their drawings weren't working and MADE them work it out together.  It was a real eye opener for both sides to hear and SEE things from the other's perspective.

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Sometimes you just need to drag them into the field and have them show you how it's done. Only problem is they don't know which end of a tool to hold and then tell you that you screwed it up!

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The fun part is when the shop has a three week lead time, the engineer wants it in two, and the design didn.t work out and the purchasing

department now needs in today. :lol:

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Designated drivers drive me to drink.

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6 minutes ago, MAYOBARD SASS #13025L said:

Designated drivers drive me to drink.

 

Don't they drive you FROM drink?

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2 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Don't they drive you FROM drink?

To drink, from drink, doesn’t matter as long as drink is in there somewhere. :P

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Ubers will also drive you to drink.

 

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My dad spent his career as a journeyman machine repairman at a glass factory. Lots of engineers. I can only recall one he had any praise for, an Indian gentleman (and this was some years ago, when that wasn't common). Seems he would come talk to the repairmen, operators and the like, even in the high heat and dirt of the factory, to figure things out. Since he was Indian, I'll just guess he was reincarnated from a mechanic.

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Posted (edited)

Anyone that has worked cattle knows its all right to cuss!! A lot!!! The only time I was allowed to utter a cuss  word as a kid was when we were working cattle.

It is impossible to work cows without cussing. Unless possibly yer a saint. FACT.

It is 'protected' speech.

Edited by Tascosa, SASS# 24838
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13 hours ago, Tascosa, SASS# 24838 said:

It is impossible to work cows without cussing.

Thought that was mules.

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I thought it was rabbits....

 

 

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10 hours ago, MizPete said:

Thought that was mules.

Never even rode a mule. But I do know cows! Only good thing about a cow is they taste good, and that helped them from not becoming extinct. If mules were like cows, they would be extinct by now...:rolleyes:

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As a machinist I love walking into the engineering office and loudly announcing "You have yet once again designed something that is physically impossible  to make".

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Posted (edited)
On 4/6/2019 at 6:17 PM, Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 said:

The fun part is when the shop has a three week lead time, the engineer wants it in two, and the design didn.t work out and the purchasing

department now needs in today. :lol:

How well I can relate to that!!

I was the Purchasing Agent for my municipality.

In regards to Engineers, my City disliked hiring newly qualified Civil Engineers from North American universities.

Little or no practical experience and too many horrible .............. errors. (I'll bet you thought I was going to say something else didn't ya?)

We had a lot of P. Eng's from the UK because they had served an apprenticeship in conjunction with their studies and could hit the ground running. 

Edited by Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474

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The sad truth is that many engineers seek solutions for problems that don't exist in order to justify their existence!!  The fastener industry is a prime and vivid example!!  Fastener designers work to create new products that require new tools which require another group of engineers to create new tools!!  A vicious cycle of mutual aggrandizement!!! 

 

I knew a couple of engineers who worked in their related industries as repair or fabrication technicians before completing their education!!  These guys were GREAT!!  Their stuff WORKED and made sense!!! 

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1 hour ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said:

How well I can relate to that!!

I was the Purchasing Agent for my municipality.

In regards to Engineers, my City disliked hiring newly qualified Civil Engineers from North American universities.

Little or no practical experience and too many horrible .............. errors. (I'll bet you thought I was going to say something else didn't ya?)

We had a lot of P. Eng's from the UK because they had served an apprenticeship in conjunction with their studies and could hit the ground running. 

 

Interestingly, there are a few schools in the U.S. that are doing a co-op type of education, where work experience and internships go part and parcel with the degree process. University of Cincinnati is one that I can think of right off the top of my head. While not the same as an actual apprenticeship, if more schools would do this, it would help the process considerably.

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On 4/7/2019 at 10:34 AM, Tascosa, SASS# 24838 said:

Anyone that has worked cattle knows its all right to cuss!! A lot!!! The only time I was allowed to utter a cuss  word as a kid was when we were working cattle.

It is impossible to work cows without cussing. Unless possibly yer a saint. FACT.

It is 'protected' speech.

 

I still remember the first time I cussed in front of my dad, a decidedly non-cussing man. Working on my '70 Mustang, and a bolt was being particularly stubborn, I put some weight behind it and it broke, causing me to slam my fist into a finned aluminum valve cover. How I didn't break anything in my hand, I don't know, but I let out a loud "son of a ..." My dad just nodded and said "you need to learn control in those situations." or something of the sort. Nothing more was said.

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19 minutes ago, DocWard said:

 

Interestingly, there are a few schools in the U.S. that are doing a co-op type of education, where work experience and internships go part and parcel with the degree process. University of Cincinnati is one that I can think of right off the top of my head. While not the same as an actual apprenticeship, if more schools would do this, it would help the process considerably.

 

Summer Co-Op programs are a win-win for the schools and industry.  My company hires engineering Co-Ops during the summer months. It is a great way to acquire the best talent from the school during what amounts to a very long job interview. I know a several corporations in the DFW area that do the same.  One Co-Op got her 5 year pin after only 14 months with the company full time. Every summer she interned earned her 1 year of seniority for pay purposes.

 

It has also benefitted us in that we can occasionally ask the schools for assistance with some projects where we don’t have the actual equipment but the school does. Becomes a teaching experience for the students as they assist seasoned engineers in setting up and conducting the tests.

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When I worked at Hughes Aircraft we had an engineering intern program. Student engineers would work with techs to learn what techs did and learn to design things that were workable. 

 

I learned that all this project did was create engineers that were even more savvy on how to screw with those they thought to be lower life forms...non degreed techs, which in turn made techs even more determined to make the engineers look like idiots.

A vicious, but very entertaining, cycle...

 

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19 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Summer Co-Op programs are a win-win for the schools and industry.  My company hires engineering Co-Ops during the summer months. It is a great way to acquire the best talent from the school during what amounts to a very long job interview. I know a several corporations in the DFW area that do the same.  One Co-Op got her 5 year pin after only 14 months with the company full time. Every summer she interned earned her 1 year of seniority for pay purposes.

 

It has also benefitted us in that we can occasionally ask the schools for assistance with some projects where we don’t have the actual equipment but the school does. Becomes a teaching experience for the students as they assist seasoned engineers in setting up and conducting the tests.

 

It works well, when the students are motivated to work and learn.

We hired some 3rd year students and put them on job sites to act as inspectors/clerk of works etc. to keep an eye on the process and ensure things were built to spec. before things were covered up and buried. A few thought this opportunity was just a vacation and party time; I had one who thought it was great the contractor took him to lunch and drinks every day, from around 11:30 to 1:30.

My buddy, the Technical Assistant who actually designed the highway in question, learned more work was done, road laid between the lunch hours than the rest of the day!

After taking bore tests of the areas in question, the contractor was made to pull up the areas and re-build them to spec.

 

Another new, young, naive Engineer of my acquaintance, was clerk of works for a large water line leading into a rural community. Same story, lunch and drinks with the contractor and, since it was being done in Canadian winter, he didn't feel like walking the line, viewing it as it was being built, staying in the construction shack, relying on supervisors reports.

When a pressure test was put on the line, almost every mechanical joint leaked badly. The workers had trouble getting the gaskets in place between each section of pipe and threw most of them into the bush along side the trench.

I had a number of …………..interesting experiences with engineers over the years.

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21 hours ago, DocWard said:

 

Interestingly, there are a few schools in the U.S. that are doing a co-op type of education, where work experience and internships go part and parcel with the degree process. University of Cincinnati is one that I can think of right off the top of my head. While not the same as an actual apprenticeship, if more schools would do this, it would help the process considerably.

Kettering University (formerly General Motors Institute) does co-op work experience too.

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22 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

The sad truth is that many engineers seek solutions for problems that don't exist in order to justify their existence!!  The fastener industry is a prime and vivid example!!  Fastener designers work to create new products that require new tools which require another group of engineers to create new tools!!  A vicious cycle of mutual aggrandizement!!! 

 

I knew a couple of engineers who worked in their related industries as repair or fabrication technicians before completing their education!!  These guys were GREAT!!  Their stuff WORKED and made sense!!! 

Sometimes the recall or bulletin repair the engineers come up with to fix their mistake requires a custom new tool.  The engineers didn't always develop it so we had to buy it from Mac or SnapOn.  A high quality and expensive tool that is only used for 3 months to a year depending on how quickly customers repond to their letter.  It was impressive how quickly the tool companies could bring the product to market, often on the tool trucks in weeks.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said:

 

It works well, when the students are motivated to work and learn.

We hired some 3rd year students and put them on job sites to act as inspectors/clerk of works etc. to keep an eye on the process and ensure things were built to spec. before things were covered up and buried. A few thought this opportunity was just a vacation and party time; I had one who thought it was great the contractor took him to lunch and drinks every day, from around 11:30 to 1:30.

My buddy, the Technical Assistant who actually designed the highway in question, learned more work was done, road laid between the lunch hours than the rest of the day!

After taking bore tests of the areas in question, the contractor was made to pull up the areas and re-build them to spec.

 

Another new, young, naive Engineer of my acquaintance, was clerk of works for a large water line leading into a rural community. Same story, lunch and drinks with the contractor and, since it was being done in Canadian winter, he didn't feel like walking the line, viewing it as it was being built, staying in the construction shack, relying on supervisors reports.

When a pressure test was put on the line, almost every mechanical joint leaked badly. The workers had trouble getting the gaskets in place between each section of pipe and threw most of them into the bush along side the trench.

I had a number of …………..interesting experiences with engineers over the years.

 

So true but as a Co-Op they are easy to get rid of. Depending on the state firing a poor performing employee can be tougher than correcting their mistakes.

Edited by Sedalia Dave

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The problem is (& always has been) the plans/rules are drawn by people who don't have to do the work.  And as sassnetguy alluded, yeah, that "perceived power" thing often has a lot to do with it.

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