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FlatFootPat

Cap and Ball gunfighter

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Hey Guys, 

 

New to the forum and relatively to CAS. I have been shooting gunfighter for a few months and am interested in shooting 1851 cap and ball navy's. I am curious does anyone know if I need to use BP in all loads with this in the gunfighter category? Or Can I use BP in my Navys, and regular smokeless ammo in rifle and shotgun? The way I read the rules it appears I can. However wanted to get opinions of more seasoned veterans. Thanks in advance. :) 

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It depends if you’re shooting gunfighter or FCGF. The former you can shoot any powder. The latter requires black powder. 

 

I sonetimes shoot my colt 51’s gunfighter. I wear them cavalry draw style with the butts forward because why not?

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Awesome. I appreciate the help. 

 

So Just shooting regular gunfighter any powder is OK. Great. Saves me a bit of money on other ammo! 

 

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27 minutes ago, FlatFootPat said:

Awesome. I appreciate the help. 

 

So Just shooting regular gunfighter any powder is OK. Great. Saves me a bit of money on other ammo! 

 

Yep. I shot FCGF before it was a recognized category. Sometimes I went smokeless in the shotgun, as I wasn’t loading my own shot shells back then and they weren’t always easy to come by

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3 hours ago, FlatFootPat said:

So Just shooting regular gunfighter any powder is OK. Great. Saves me a bit of money on other ammo! 

 

On the surface, this might sound odd, but there are no smokeless categories. In a black powder category, you have to use black powder or substitute in all guns, but there are no categories that require the use of smokeless.

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12 minutes ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

On the surface, this might sound odd, but there are no smokeless categories. In a black powder category, you have to use black powder or substitute in all guns, but there are no categories that require the use of smokeless.

 

FWIW - The SHB refers to the categories that don't require BP as "smokeless categories" in the "Power Factor" regs. on pp. 26 & 45

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An odd way to phrase it, as there are no categories that require the use of smokeless powder, just power factors that apply when shooting with smokeless powder. :mellow:

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18 minutes ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

An odd way to phrase it, as there are no categories that require the use of smokeless powder, just power factors that apply when shooting with smokeless powder. :mellow:

 

Actually, the minimum power factor regs also apply to BP center-fire ammo when shooting in NON-BP (smokeless) categories:
 

Quote

Power Factors
The minimum standard for center-fire ammunition used in all smokeless categories in all SASS matches, including State, Regional, National, International, and World Championship competitions is not less than a minimum power factor of 60 and no velocity may be less than 400 fps. 

SHB p.26

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I might be mistaken, but I am pretty sure fixed sight percussion cap guns are legal to use in all SASS categories.  Obviously, you will be slightly handicapping yourself competing in any category open to other cartridge guns, but it's hard to beat the fun factor of percussion.   

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54 minutes ago, July Smith said:

I might be mistaken, but I am pretty sure fixed sight percussion cap guns are legal to use in all SASS categories.  Obviously, you will be slightly handicapping yourself competing in any category open to other cartridge guns, but it's hard to beat the fun factor of percussion.   

We had a new shooter who wanted to shoot his capguns using a support hand.  He was surprised to learn that he could shoot in an age based category with black powder.

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Being 'oh crap' conscience when shooting gun fighter with cap and ball pistols a chain fire could be very dangerous. As in screwing up the other hand. I once said chain fires seldom, if never happen. And then I had one, shooting dualist. Wakes you right up.

 

So......

Ike

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On 4/3/2019 at 8:34 AM, Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 said:

We had a new shooter who wanted to shoot his capguns using a support hand.  He was surprised to learn that he could shoot in an age based category with black powder.

 

Or he could also shoot Frontier Cartridge with both hands and still compete in a BP category.

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4 hours ago, Grey Beard said:

 

Or he could also shoot Frontier Cartridge with both hands and still compete in a BP category.

 

Very true.

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I just happen to play Cap Gun Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter.  Yule want to have your Cap Guns "Set Up" for CAS before you use em Gunfighter. 

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On 4/3/2019 at 7:34 AM, Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 said:

We had a new shooter who wanted to shoot his capguns using a support hand.  He was surprised to learn that he could shoot in an age based category with black powder.

And nobody ran him off the range for suggesting such a notion? Around these parts he’s be tarred and feathered for even mentioning percussion pistols and two handed shooting in the same sentence. 

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6 hours ago, Redwood Kid said:

And nobody ran him off the range for suggesting such a notion? Around these parts he’s be tarred and feathered for even mentioning percussion pistols and two handed shooting in the same sentence. 

 

Actually he shot at least one match as Frontiersman without anyone making a comment on shooting style.  

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5 hours ago, Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 said:

 

Actually he shot at least one match as Frontiersman without anyone making a comment on shooting style.  

He shot a whole match frontiersman but shooting two handed? 

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Posted (edited)

Wow Never thought my question would get so many responses. You guys are great.  I ended up just shooting Frontiersman for the shoot.It was a blast. PUN INTENDED. However, cap and ball is a whole different animal than what I have been used to shooting regular smokeless categories with vaqueros......this could get addicting..........;)

Edited by FlatFootPat
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Heading out Saturday to shoot cap n ball with a twist. Shooting Josey Wales with 4 cap guns

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Gunfighter with cap and ball while legal, would be difficult. 

 

I generally shoot gunfighter in main matches. I also have cap and ball revolvers and love to shoot plainsman matches and shoot matches in frontiersman.  I love shooting the cap and ball revolvers. While legal, I would not want to shoot gunfighter with my cap and ball revolvers. Seems like at least 1/3 of the stages something goes wrong with a cap and ball, either the cylinder gets jammed from a cap falling off, the loading lever falls open, or something. The off hand is needed to resolve these issues. I would be in a pickle if I had a loaded revolver in my other hand at the same time.

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Although I went out Sunday and ran 30 shots through each gun without a hitch. I’m still thinking of shooting double duelist just in case

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1 hour ago, El Juez said:

Gunfighter with cap and ball while legal, would be difficult. 

 

I  The off hand is needed to resolve these issues. I would be in a pickle if I had a loaded revolver in my other hand at the same time.

It is not done to be easy, it is difficult. When a cap jam or what ever ties up one gun shoot the other dry, holster and resolve issue with two hands then finish with no P, you are a cap and ball gunfighter aren't you?

 

Fordyce

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Fordyce,

No, I shoot gunfighter with cartridges. For me cap and ball are strictly for plainsman and frontiersman. No P? You are assuming my brain would allow me to continue to hit my targets with the other gun, holster it safely, work out the issues I had with the first gun, finish shooting that and move on. Nope. Definitely a P. Next time I feel like adding a layer or two of difficulty I may try it. I'm sure it would be entertaining. 

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2 hours ago, Fordyce Beals said:

It is not done to be easy, it is difficult. When a cap jam or what ever ties up one gun shoot the other dry, holster and resolve issue with two hands then finish with no P, you are a cap and ball gunfighter aren't you?

 

Fordyce

 

Well, if you have one pistol with a cap jam, you HOPE the other pistol won't.  But my luck has been that one jams up, the other is sure to follow.  Then I'm stuck with two jammed pistols.  Have to ground one, then clear and finish with the other.  Misses based on unfired chambers in grounded pistol.  Unless you have more than just those.

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On 4/2/2019 at 7:19 PM, Redwood Kid said:

It depends if you’re shooting gunfighter or FCGF. The former you can shoot any powder. The latter requires black powder. 

 

I sonetimes shoot my colt 51’s gunfighter. I wear them cavalry draw style with the butts forward because why not?

 

Looks like ya got your answer right away.  I’ll just add this for your enjoyment / encouragement.  :D  I do love shootin’ 1851’s (cap n ball or conversion).  

 

 

Enjoy!

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I've shot gunfighter with C&B many times and have had an occasional cap jam.  Fire the good one until empty then address the fouled one. 

 

Properly set up C&B's are good insurance they will work well most of the time but be prepared to address the occasional problem inherent to the breed.

 

Nothing funner than GF with a Navy '51.

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1 hour ago, Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423 said:

 

Looks like ya got your answer right away.  I’ll just add this for your enjoyment / encouragement.  :D  I do love shootin’ 1851’s (cap n ball or conversion).  

 

 

Enjoy!

I love that video. Especially since I grew up in that area, about 50 miles south of Bend right off the 97. Fantastic shooting irons for both of ya's

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So I went out for the first shoot of the season, shooting Josey Wales with 2 Walkers, an 1860 and an 1851. I shot some stages double duelist, some gunfighter and some both just because JWS has no rules. In 120 shots I had one cap drag which was cleared by a hammer wiggle. I set up each revolver with slixshot nipples and remington #10 caps. I dresses the hammer face but did not install any cap post. The sweat equity that I pit in during the fall, I feel, has really paid off. The revolvers were just as smooth at the end off the day as with the first shot. Prep seems to be everything with these cap guns. The constant loading of 4 guns was the only hassle but the posse was good about it. 

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On 4/12/2019 at 3:46 PM, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

I love that video. Especially since I grew up in that area, about 50 miles south of Bend right off the 97. Fantastic shooting irons for both of ya's

 

Thanks El Hombre!  Glad ya enjoyed it (and I hope ya caught Part 2).  

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22 minutes ago, Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423 said:

 

Thanks El Hombre!  Glad ya enjoyed it (and I hope ya caught Part 2).  

I hadn’t, so I went and watched it just now. Love it. I especially love when the TO starts coughing from all that smoke. 

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Consider getting .44 cal 51's.

I shoot my .36 51 & 61 and I dont care about Texas Star's that dont fall or misses given because the plate dont ring or move, but, that may effect you more than me?

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2 hours ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

I hadn’t, so I went and watched it just now. Love it. I especially love when the TO starts coughing from all that smoke. 

 

That never gets old. :D

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6 hours ago, Major Crimes said:

Consider getting .44 cal 51's.

I shoot my .36 51 & 61 and I dont care about Texas Star's that dont fall or misses given because the plate dont ring or move, but, that may effect you more than me?

 

If you can buy Tripple 7 down under try it in your 36's. Using T7 my 36s hit steel just as hard as my 38s.

 

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