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Msgtarmor

New to 44-40 reloading and confused

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The wall thickness at the neck of .44-40 is thin enough to where you shouldn't need to anneal the brass.  Thick, straight wall cases do benefit from annealing depending on bullet and crimp style.

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Howdy

 

Splits in nickel plated brass are a completely different thing, annealing would not help.

 

When the plating baths are not set up correctly, split cases can result with nickel plated brass.  It is usually caused by the different rates of expansion of the two metals.

 

I have been loading for a pretty long time now, and have never bothered to anneal my brass. If I was going to be fireforming brass to a different configuration, then I probably would.

 

But for 44-40 brass, a few teeny splits such as I mentioned before are just part of the price of loading the cartridge.

 

I loose a lot more 44-40 brass because it gets stepped on and mashed out of shape with no hope of reforming it than I do from splits.

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I'm constantly amazed by the wealth of information many cowboy shooters have.  How in the heck you guys have the patience to learn and utilize all this information is beyond me though I certainly am impressed!  I use a 650 with two different tool heads, or whatever they're called, one set up for 38 special and one for .32 H&R magnum.  Swap the shell plate, the tool head, the pins, the little case slide thing, the brass chute, the little aluminum cylinder the cases fall through, the plastic cylinder, and the case feeder plate and I'm good to go.  I know when something breaks the Dillon guys probably get a good laugh after I call and tell them I need the little spring thing that wraps around the ram and makes the shell plate index.  They tell me the right name and I promptly forget it. 

 

If I had to load using large primers I would probably buy a whole new press because I would be afraid I would tear the thing up trying to swap out all the primer stuff. 

 

It's good to know you guys are around, cause I surely will screw something up reloading at some point and I'll come right here and ask all the big brains what I did wrong. 

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Only 44-40 cases that need to be annealed are old cases that harden with age like the old 1880's/early 1890's semi-balloonhead cases.

Here are some unheadstamped early 1880's...maybe pre-1880 as well as some early headstamped cases I use regularly.

30442618_899361313577786_9066580647941767168_n_zpsjwnaf8ob.jpg

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Here is another photo, up close of an original unheadstamped 44WCF cartridge made prior to 1880's. Note the roll crimp and that the bullet has pushed out slightly due to oxidation/expanding of the base of the bullet.

 

The bullet on the left is a wheelweight 427098 without a lube grove. The bullet is crimped into the soft lead just behind the front edge of the forward driving band with a Redding 44-40 Profile Crimp.

Img_3171a_zpsmougp7mv.jpg

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Try not to think too much into it. I honestly think you will not have any problems with the crimps. However, if you feel uncomfortable, there is another solution...the Accurate Molds 43-208A. This is designed with a slightly heeled shank. Resizing brass is not necessary but the forward driving band prevents the use of the Redding Profile Crimp. I prefer the roll crimp but again, caution to have the bullet seating die adjusted correctly to prevent crumpling. I purposefully had this mold made for loading in the field with smokeless or black powder with the Lyman 310 handloading tool. The bullet is seated by hand!!!!
 

43-208A-D.png

Img_3550.jpg

Img_3548a.jpg

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I haven't gotten into pouring my own bullets yet.  I do have a pot and about 100 lbs of pure lead but haven't fired it up since I bought it.  I had figured to use it to make balls for my 50 caliber plains rifle. To make bullets for my 44-40 I'm sure i'd need to add tin or whatever else is needed to harden it.  Right now the bullets I bought are .428",  200 gr lubed, lead RNFP made locally by Badman bullets. They are a BNH of 15 I believe.  Which to my limited knowledge means they will need to be run at higher pressure to keep from leading.  Correct me if I'm wrong here but for what I plan to load, velocities around 1,000 - 1,100 in my rifle, I should be looking for a BNH of closer to 8-10? 

Or should I find a reloading site to ask that question and others that I'm sure will come to mind?!

Thanks you so much for sharing all this information!!  I never expected this kind of help when I asked my initial question!!

 

jim

 

BTW, I did make 10 dummy rounds with a '1 turn past shell plate' crimp with my LFCD. I loaded and ejected them all twice with no glitch.  They also chamber nicely in my revolver!  

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7 minutes ago, Msgtarmor said:

I haven't gotten into pouring my own bullets yet.  I do have a pot and about 100 lbs of pure lead but haven't fired it up since I bought it.  I had figured to use it to make balls for my 50 caliber plains rifle. To make bullets for my 44-40 I'm sure i'd need to add tin or whatever else is needed to harden it.  Right now the bullets I bought are .428",  200 gr lubed, lead RNFP made locally by Badman bullets. They are a BNH of 15 I believe.  Which to my limited knowledge means they will need to be run at higher pressure to keep from leading.  Correct me if I'm wrong here but for what I plan to load, velocities around 1,000 - 1,100 in my rifle, I should be looking for a BNH of closer to 8-10? 

Or should I find a reloading site to ask that question and others that I'm sure will come to mind?!

Thanks you so much for sharing all this information!!  I never expected this kind of help when I asked my initial question!!

 

jim

 

BTW, I did make 10 dummy rounds with a '1 turn past shell plate' crimp with my LFCD. I loaded and ejected them all twice with no glitch.  They also chamber nicely in my revolver!  

 

This is a good place to start learning about casting bullets and lube

 

From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners

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I buy my smokeless bullets from Missouri Bullets. Brinell is 12. For black powder loads, I buy the Mav Dutchman series of bullets from Springfield Slim, a.k.a. Whyte Leatherworks. He makes good stuff. 

 

My bullet calibers are readily available for purchase plus, I don't shoot enough to make the cost and time of casting worthwhile. I ran the numbers, and it just doesn't work for me.

 

Regardless, even if you decide not to cast, this book is the best and most comprehensive loading manual for our game.

https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Cast-Bullet-Handbook-4Th/dp/B07PSNM3KV

 

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Quote

Right now the bullets I bought are .428",  200 gr lubed, lead RNFP made locally by Badman bullets. They are a BNH of 15 I believe.  Which to my limited knowledge means they will need to be run at higher pressure to keep from leading.  Correct me if I'm wrong here but for what I plan to load, velocities around 1,000 - 1,100 in my rifle, I should be looking for a BNH of closer to 8-10? 

 

Lots of folks run bullets as hard as 15 or 16 Brinnell.  That is actually capable of handling magnum handgun velocities.  But most commercial casters use that hard an alloy so they don't get complaints from users trying to push 1500 FPS or so with hot loads.  Badman Bullets sells 16 Brinnell slugs. 

 

Quote

What is the hardness of Badman Hard Cast Lead Bullets?
Our bullets have a BHN of 16

How fast can I shoot Badman Hard Cast Lead Bullets?
Our hard cast bullets can be shot up to 1,500 fps and/or 21,000 psi. Whichever comes first. If you are wanting to go faster or hotter check out our Polymer Coated Bullets.

 

For cowboy shooting, 8-9 Brinnell hardness is plenty for velocities we normally use (700-800 FPS, and less than 12,000 PSI pressure).   That is a fairly soft bullet, and it expands to seal the barrel at our low chamber pressures.  Turns out it's a little more accurate, too.  But not a lot of commercial vendors cast soft bullets like that.

 

Hard bullets at our velocities will gas-cut a little, and you will find some lead in the throats and barrel, but it's usually not hard to remove.  If hard alloy bullets is what you have, then shoot them.  Some shooters are convinced they have to go to polymer coated bullets to eliminate leading.  Soft alloy bullets do the same "clean barrel" trick.  Bottom line - most bullets will work for Cowboy shooting with smokeless powders, at least fairly well.

 

OP, I believe you will find folks here who know reloading.  In fact, some of them will know more about low pressure, lead bullet loading than most other folks on any forum.

 

Good luck, GJ

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The main thing I've learned from loading .44-40 is don't put any more bell on the case mouth than is absolutely necessary for starting a bullet.  I use Lee dies on my Lee 4 hole turret, finishing with the LFCD.  My Uberti revolver has very tight chambers, cartridges that will drop into my '92 may not chamber in my revolver.  The LFCD smooths them out so they drop into the revolver.

I made this little video several years ago, recording with iCam glasses.  So you don't always get to see what I was seeing.  In the video I comment that I don't put any crimp when seating the bullet, actually I do put some crimp.  Like Driftwood, with full cases of BP you won't get any bullet setback anyway, so i don't need a lot of crimp.  But I do need it for the revolver.

 

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I just purchased some 200gr .427 LRNFP from ACME Bullet Company to try. 
Shot the first ten rounds at 265 yards this morning with Open Sights in my Marlin 1894CB
DO NOT USE THIS LOAD IN WINCHESTER 73' or REVOLVER TYPE FIREARMS!

265 Yards 44-40 Marlin 1894CB .427

 

and some ACME .429s

265 Yards 44-40 Marlin 1894CB .429

 

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Sedalia Dave, I have bookmarked the link you attached so I can retrieve it later! Looks like alot of good info for beginners! Now I'll hafta figure out where to get Antimony and tin to harden the lead with.  The days of getting bucket fulls of wheel weights are pretty much over around here!

Abilene Slim, I have read about that book before but I'll check into buying one the next time I go to Sportsman Warehouse in Salem.

Garrison Joe, Thanks for confirming what I was guessing! I do use the poly coated ones for my warmer loads in 357 and 44 mag. But jacketed for hot loads!  

Pulp, that is how I loaded the dummy rounds. Just enough flare I couldn't really see it, but the bullets would stick in an upright position till I pressed em down with the seater die with no lead shavings.  I have them at 1.588" OAL and they chamber fine in my '73 rifle and revolver. 

Savvy Jack, Nice range! Nice shooting!  My experience with IMR 4227 in my 357 and 44 mag has left powder 'skeletons' in the bore, cylinder, brass and on me!  But performance was good with hotter loadings.  Have you ever used 2400 with the 44-40? I've been eyeing it thinking of a mid power load.  It shoots much cleaner in my magnum revolvers and performs nicely but seems to have more recoil.    

Since I'm not shooting in SASS events yet, I do want to find the best load for accuracy in both my rifle and revolver.  Then figure out velocity to make sure I dont damage targets when I do try an event.  I have plenty of Unique and 2400 so I'm thinking of using Unique to start. Then try the 2400 in low doses. If that doesn't work out to my liking, then a trip to the store for some Trail boss will be in order!  BTW, I normally use the Winchester large pistol primers so ignition shouldn't be a problem with any powder.

When I get to the point of wanting to try out black powder, I'll be asking alot more questions!!

You guys have no idea how much I appreciate all this information!!  The internet is good for a few things and this is definitely one of them!!

 

jim

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Yeap, Unique is great...these guys can hook you up with a load...about 7gr for CAS.

 

I have tried 2400, it is a great powder. 2400 has a similar burn rate as the old Sharpshooter and SR80 powders. IMR-4227 has a similar burn rate as the old Dupont #2...ironically, 2400 and IMR-4227 are "Magnum" powders....gotta love history!!!

 

Unique
My MGM Testing Barrel 

8gr gives me 1,146fps @ 8,335psi- 205gr Lyman 427098

10gr gives me 1,419fps @14,007psi - 200gr Acme Magma

12gr gives me 1,635fps @ 21,786psi 200gr Acme Magma

 

2400

My MGM Testing Barrel

15gr gives me 1,114fps @ 8,130psi 205gr Lyman 427098

16gr gives me 1,300fps @ 8,992psi 200gr Speer #4425 JHP per Lyman's 49th manual for Group I rifles (Winchester 73' Types)

20gr goves me 1,672fps @ 15,618psi 200gr Speer #4425 JHP per Lyman's 49th manual for Group II rifles (Winchester 92 Types)

Unburnt or "Skeletons" don't bother me although if left in the chamber, can "dent" the next fired case. 
Unique is very sooty but has been around since 1900.

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Thanks Jack! I was thinking of starting with Unique and make 3 loads; 7 gn, 7.5 gn and 8 gn.   Then with the 2400 use 14 gn, 14.5 gn and 15 gn.  Like I've said before I dont want to hotrod my guns but I would like to develop a load that is clean, accurate and not unsafe for my revolver. And possibly use the same load for hunting, which I think would need to be in the vicinity of 1,000 - 1,200 fpc out of my rifle.   Recoil isn't a problem since I wont be shooting more than 100 rds at any time with both.  But I definately dont want to beat up my guns either. 

I used to use Unique for all my pistol loads unless I was wanting 'bear' loads.  In the past 2 years I switched to Bullseye for my 45acp loads (much cleaner and still very accurate!) and 2400 on my magnum calibers for moderate practice/plinking loads and hot ones.   I used to use H110 for my magnums but I don't like how you have to be at or slightly above max to get the best performance.  It is still the most accurate powder for my 44 mags, but only in my RedHawk and Rossi '92. My Vaquero never has seen a hot one!  Anyway, I'm getting off track here.

Having your own MGM test barrel is very cool!!  Hell, I thought I was crappin in tall cotton when I got a chrono!!

BTW, what is the length and bore diameter of your test barrel? I'm thinking that has an effect on both pressure and velocity?!

Sorry, I'm getting so long winded here!!  If it gets to where I'm "beating a dead horse" let me know!!

Thanks again!!!

 

jim

 

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Just bought what I thought was a lb of Trail Boss for $15.   I get home and realize it's only 9oz... Oh well.. More 44-40 fodder!!

 

jim

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3 minutes ago, Msgtarmor said:

Just bought what I thought was a lb of Trail Boss for $15.   I get home and realize it's only 9oz... Oh well.. More 44-40 fodder!!

 

jim

Thats okay, the weight is deceiving.....and only hits the pocketbook if shooting 200 rounds a month for 5 years!

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2 minutes ago, Msgtarmor said:

Just bought what I thought was a lb of Trail Boss for $15.   I get home and realize it's only 9oz... Oh well.. More 44-40 fodder!!

 

jim

 

Take it back and get some 700x, Unique, or Clays; bulky powders that are a lot better and CHEAPER  than that stuff.

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8 hours ago, Msgtarmor said:

Like I've said before I dont want to hotrod my guns but I would like to develop a load that is clean, accurate and not unsafe for my revolver.

 

Please explain why it is important that the load be 'clean'.

 

You are new here so you have never heard me talk about the fallacy of 'clean burning' loads.

 

You are not talking about shooting a finicky semi-automatic. You are talking about revolvers and lever guns. Which really do not care how clean burning the load is. A semi-auto might gunk up with a load that leaves some residue in the bore, but in my experience it will not matter in a revolver or a lever gun. A whole lot of fouling with my Black Powder 44-40 rounds does not slow me down much, but that is a different story.

 

7.5 grains of Unique under a 200 grain .427, or .428, or .429 bullet is not going to put a strain on any revolver that is in good mechanical condition. Recoil is noticeable, but not stout. In a rifle the recoil is barely noticeable.

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Whether the cost matters depends on how many rounds one plans to shoot. Generally, I don't shoot that much smokeless, so the cost/benefit ratio of TB works for me. My cases come out almost squeaky clean with a mid range load under a 200 gr bullet. TB gets sooty when loaded at the bottom and below range. YMMV

 

Loads below are midrange from Hodgdon.

 

9 oz = 656 rounds with a 200 gr bullet and 6.0 grains TB per container; $17.29 at Grafs = 2.6 cents/round or $26/1k rounds

14 oz = 1331 rounds with a 200 gr bullet and 4.6 grains Clays per container $19.69 at Grafs = 1.5 cents/round or 15/1k rounds

 

Difference of $11 per 1k rounds

 

Photo of  44.-40 (200 gr bullet) and C45S (180 gr) cases loaded with 6 and 4 gr TB respectively. These cases haven't been to the tumbler yet. The CS case is stained in the extractor groove due to years of loads with BP.  This 44-40 case hasn't seen BP yet. BTW, shiny doesn't shoot any better than clean. The stained range brass I pick up shoots just as well.

 

G1fOaXF.jpg

 

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Clean? Not completely possible, but I have shot loads that were much dirtier than others. I shoot my 1911's alot and they have never gummed up from dirty loads, but some loads I have tried smoke alot and leave tons of soot on the gun. Mostly from my 230 gn lubed lead bullets and 5.8 gns of Unique loads  I'm just trying to avoid that if I can help it. Not too big a deal, but something to 'shoot for'! I do plan to use Unique for my first hand loads on the 44-40 anyway.  Then I'll keep working on it till I find just the right load for me.

Thanks again to everyone for all the help and advise!!

 

jim

 

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On 4/2/2019 at 12:17 AM, Msgtarmor said:

Clean? Not completely possible, but I have shot loads that were much dirtier than others. I shoot my 1911's alot and they have never gummed up from dirty loads, but some loads I have tried smoke alot and leave tons of soot on the gun. Mostly from my 230 gn lubed lead bullets and 5.8 gns of Unique loads  I'm just trying to avoid that if I can help it. Not too big a deal, but something to 'shoot for'! I do plan to use Unique for my first hand loads on the 44-40 anyway.  Then I'll keep working on it till I find just the right load for me.

Thanks again to everyone for all the help and advise!!

 

jim

 

Trail Boss is not as dirty as Unique and maybe not even Tite Group. I find IMR-4227 is cleaner when loaded warm and Reloder 7 is a little dirtier but not as dirty as Unique.

Here is some used cases: Spent Cases Not Dirty

 

I have shot 265 yard targets with all three with Marlins and Winchesters, Trailboss "Cowboy" Loads, Reloder 7 - 1,300fps loads and IMR-5227 - 1,650fps loads (Marlin Only). The dirtiest of the three would be Reloder 7 with unburnt powder or skeletons and Trailboss with shoot.....but again, all are cleaner than Unique.

Hitting Golf Balls @ 265 Yards 

 

Marlin 1889 @ 265 yards Open Sights

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18 hours ago, Savvy Jack said:

Trail Boss is not as dirty as Unique and maybe not even Tite Group. I find IMR-4227 is cleaner when loaded warm and Reloder 7 is a little dirtier but not as dirty as Unique.

Here is some used cases: Spent Cases Not Dirty

 

I have shot 265 yard targets with all three with Marlins and Winchesters, Trailboss "Cowboy" Loads, Reloder 7 - 1,300fps loads and IMR-5227 - 1,650fps loads (Marlin Only). The dirtiest of the three would be Reloder 7 with unburnt powder or skeletons and Trailboss with shoot.....but again, all are cleaner than Unique.

Hitting Golf Balls @ 265 Yards 

 

Marlin 1889 @ 265 yards Open Sights

Thanks, Jack!  I noticed the Trail Boss has a weird 'donut' shape to it!  It wont flow thru my Hornady powder thrower so I'll have to dig out my digital one.   Anyway, my experience with 4227 is similar to yours, the warmer you load it, the better and cleaner it performs, so it's probably not the best choice for my '73 Winchester.  

I still haven't shot my new guns but I have several loads rolled up to try out with Unique, 2400 and about to load some with Trail Boss and 4227 just for shits and giggles!  

The range I shoot at goes out to 200 yards, so when I find a load that seems fairly accurate at 50 and 100, I'll give it a try.  And if the friggin rain ever quits, I'll drag out my chrono and do a speed check on them as well. 

I do have another question tho...  When you use the LFCD does it seat the bullet deeper into the case than the seater die?  I've set the seater die for an OAL of 1.588". After crimping (about 3/4 turn past shell plate) the OAL is consistently 1.583".  Still OK but wondering what the heck is goin on!  I use LFCD's on 4 other calibers without this happening!!

I'm still jealous of your shooting range!!

 

jim

 

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1 hour ago, Msgtarmor said:

I do have another question tho...  When you use the LFCD does it seat the bullet deeper into the case than the seater die?  I've set the seater die for an OAL of 1.588". After crimping (about 3/4 turn past shell plate) the OAL is consistently 1.583".  Still OK but wondering what the heck is goin on!  I use LFCD's on 4 other calibers without this happening!!

I'm still jealous of your shooting range!!

 

jim

 

I don't recall the LFCD ever trying to further seat any bullets in my experiences. I think only the Redding profile crimp with Winchester's JSP bullet has ever given me an issue due to it's small diameter of .425 and position of the crimp groove on the Ogive.

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7 hours ago, Msgtarmor said:

I do have another question tho...  When you use the LFCD does it seat the bullet deeper into the case than the seater die?  I've set the seater die for an OAL of 1.588". After crimping (about 3/4 turn past shell plate) the OAL is consistently 1.583".  Still OK but wondering what the heck is goin on!  I use LFCD's on 4 other calibers without this happening!!

I'm still jealous of your shooting range!!

 

jim

 

I've had the same experience with both Lee and Redding dies. Try backing off on the die, as 3/4 of a turn in my experience has produced the same results as you. Start with the bottom of the LFCD making contact with the shell plate/holder, then work your way up in 1/8 turns (or less) increments, but only if you're not getting enough crimp. I'm getting a good crimp with the die cranked up maybe 1/8 or less turn past the point where it lightly contacts the shell plate on a Hornady LNL progressive.

 

If you crank a Redding Profile Crimp Die up 3/4 of a turn on my press, it will seat the bullet deeper as well as pull some of bullets right back out. It's also more likely to crumple cases as shown in one of Driftwood's photos.

 

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3 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

I've had the same experience with both Lee and Redding dies. Try backing off on the die, as 3/4 of a turn in my experience has produced the same results as you. Start with the bottom of the LFCD making contact with the shell plate/holder, then work your way up in 1/8 turns (or less) increments, but only if you're not getting enough crimp. I'm getting a good crimp with the die cranked up maybe 1/8 or less turn past the point where it lightly contacts the shell plate on a Hornady LNL progressive.

 

If you crank a Redding Profile Crimp Die up 3/4 of a turn on my press, it will seat the bullet deeper as well as pull some of bullets right back out. It's also more likely to crumple cases as shown in one of Driftwood's photos.

 

This crimp die is the only one I have that uses pressure on the shell plate to form the crimp.  With the bullet I'm using right now the OAL it makes is OK. But I'm thinking a different bullet shape may need to be roll crimped (as has been mentioned previously) with the seating die to keep OAL within spec. Good to know about the Redding die.

I'm about to stuff a few more cases so I'll back the crimp off and try it again.

Thanks!

 

jim

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I load Trailboss for just about everything, including .44-40.   I just like it.   I do not find it to be a "clean burning" powder, but I also find that it cleans up pretty easily when you are done shooting.   I have also found that it does not cause my guns to bind up or slow down or malfunction if I do a lot of shooting with no cleaning.   With one minor exception that I suspect is more a function of the gun in question than the powder used. 

 

One time, when I was shooting my Colt Lightning clone in .45 Colt, I had a handful of failures to fire.  Took the gun home and flushed out the firing pin channel with gun scrubber, and the problem went away and has never reoccurred.  As I mentioned, this particular gun was in .45 Colt, which tends to have a lot of blowback that .44-40 does not.   Also, Lightnings in general have a reputation for needing to be kept clean.   

 

But for the typical revolvers and lever guns used in our game, especially in .44-40, even with Trailboss finding a "clean" load is not something you need to worry about.

 

Heck I use Trailboss for .45 ACP in my 1911's and Tommy guns with no problem.

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I guess I sent the wrong impression with what I meant by clean!!  I know that getting a load as clean shooting as factory loads isn't always realistic, so accuracy is my first priority!  It's just that I'd prefer it not to be really sooty but if it is, no biggie! I have found that with most powders I've used, the hotter the load is the cleaner burning it is.  Also the amount of crimp seems to help. 

This will be my first time to use Trail Boss, so when I finally get to the range with my new guns, I'll see how it compares against the other loads I'll have made up.  I noticed with 6 gns it fills the case slightly more than 8 gns of Unique.  I may try the max load (for category 1) of 6.4 gns Trail Boss also.  But this is part of the fun of getting a new caliber!! A large learning curve for sure!!

Colt Lightning, that's one I've always wanted to shoot! Love pump guns almost as much as lever guns!!

Thanks!!

 

jim

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Jim I think you will like the Trail Boss...certainly not sootie like Unique.

 

6.4gr should be somewhere around 7,200psi [approx. 8,510 cup] and is a very enjoyable light load compared to other powders and loads. We all certainly have to create our own limitations and comfort zones as well as deciding if we want to drive 80mph every where we go even if we are not in a hurry. Much like higher loads.

 

6.4gr in my Uberti Winchester 73' is fun and accurate out to 265 yards with Big Lube bullets with one heck of a lob!

 

9.3gr gave me 15,000psi avg. [approx. 17,730 cup] @ only 1,200fps (IMR/Hogdon claims this "formula" is safe in rifles and revolvers according to their website.

Looks like that page is no longer available: https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail Boss Reduced Loads R&P.pdf

 

 

According to Sharpe's 1937 Complete Guide to Handloading book, chamber pressures, pending powder and load, for rifles [we all know what this means by now right?] ranged from 9,600 to 33,000 [must assume cup]. Revolver loads ranged from 7,200 to 15,000 [must assume cup] Current SAAMI Max is 13,000 cup/11,000 psi

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Thanks Jack! More good info there!!  I noticed they are all using a COL of 1.60".  Is that what you are doing?  I normally wouldn't load to max and set the bullet deeper than what that particular recipe mentions. That means I'll have to 'fix' the crimper setting the bullets deeper!  I may try the 'case fill and measure' method mentioned in the topic you added.   

Another thing I read in what you added to your post was removing the baffle in the powder dispenser with Trail Boss.  Huh, don't know why I didn't think about that!

Anyway, Thanks again!!

 

jim

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1 hour ago, Msgtarmor said:

Thanks Jack! More good info there!!  I noticed they are all using a COL of 1.60".  Is that what you are doing?  I normally wouldn't load to max and set the bullet deeper than what that particular recipe mentions. That means I'll have to 'fix' the crimper setting the bullets deeper!  I may try the 'case fill and measure' method mentioned in the topic you added.   

Another thing I read in what you added to your post was removing the baffle in the powder dispenser with Trail Boss.  Huh, don't know why I didn't think about that!

Anyway, Thanks again!!

 

jim

 

I use Starline Brass. I have got batches of 1.300 and 1.296,.....loading to 11,000psi you should never ever have to "trim" brass in that 73' or Lightning.

Another good reason you see all of these under charged loads is bullet seating depths. They very so much and is why I tested 83 loads for the 44-40. Some bullets seat to .240 and some over .364...the popular 200gr "Magma" is .300 to .311.

 

I have trimmed brass when using high pressure loads...I use my 1.300 for those but if the 96's get stretched, I will trim them back to 1.300

AOL is for at least two things;

 

1. Pressure will increase if the bullets sets close to the driving bands when chambered in a rifle.

2. Too long and the case will not "eject" with the extractor.

1. A good way to test a deep seating bullet for clearance to expand the case, no powder no primer...gently start the bullet then insert it into the camber by hand. Close the action and the bullet will be seated into the case by the driving band. This, of course, will still be too long for pressures and ejecting.

2. To get the case out, gently pry open the extractor and let the cartridge fall back into the chamber then tilt the rifle up and let it fall out. With the extractor/bolt all the way open, the cartridge will fall out base first with the rifle tilted up and on it's side. If any problems, insert a wood dowel down the barrel and push the bullet into the case then eject, start over.

Below is an example of an AOL (Outpost's design Accurate 43-200Q) and .445" driving band for over sized chambers as it touches the driving bands. Error, 1889 not 1888. 



Important is that some older firearms have shorter chambers as well as smaller bores ;-)

Dscf3162[1].jpg

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How in the hell do you learn all this stuff???  Haha!!  That is something I may try out also.  Just to know if for no other reason!  

I should also have slugged my rifle bore before I started buying bullets to reload with.  I had just figured since it's a brand new Miroku Winchester it would have the .428 bore. I cant seem to find any manufactures information to confirm, just what I've been reading here and there. 

Lately, I've also been thinking of an older '92 SRC in the same caliber, just because!!

Thanks again!!

 

jim

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7 hours ago, Msgtarmor said:

 

Colt Lightning, that's one I've always wanted to shoot! Love pump guns almost as much as lever guns!!

 

 

Warning!  The Lightning is a very addictive and super fun gun to shoot.   There are several remakes out there, and opinions vary on them from being tomato stakes to excellent rifles, depending on who made it.  

 

I myself have three of them.  Two AWA reproductions, one in .45 Colt and another in .44-40.   I also have a real Colt in .32-20.   Now, I love lever guns.  Have since I was a kid.  I've got a 73, 4 '92's a '66 and a Henry and a Spencer.   I've also got a 2 94's a '95 and an '86.  All guns I wanted since I was a wee little lad.

 

And yet, somehow, the Lighting has become my favorite gun for SASS.   I even shot EoT clean with the .45 3 years ago.

 

So, beware of the Lightning bug.  Once it bites you, you are hooked forever.

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I know this is a little off topic, but in the world of replica 'Cowboy guns', which brand would you recommend for a good shooting, reliable Lightning?  I sold off some of my military/tactical stuff so I could buy the Winchester and Colt 44-40's.  I have no problem selling some other 'stuff' to purchase another fun gun!  I guess I'm going back to my roots with single action guns and my only regret is not doing it sooner!

 

jim

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