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T-Bone SASS #36388

Concrete walls on a shooting range.

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I am thing of upgrading the Bar 3 shooting Range and due to limited space I'm thinking of using concrete block walls. The local concrete company has large blocks 30"x 60"x 2.5' ,,,very nice looking wall. What do yall think of concrete as a barrier?? does or do you know of anyone using this method ??Pro's con's ???  Thanks T-Bone

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we shoot at a range that uses them. I see no disadvantages. Saves space

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Our club installed them 19 years ago on the cowboy range then covered them with rough cut boards to give look of fort walls.

image.thumb.png.8a3f95ee9c0983ee65338d9e2ece6fdc.pngimage.thumb.png.8a3f95ee9c0983ee65338d9e2ece6fdc.png

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46 minutes ago, T-Bone SASS #36388 said:

Catlow,,,, Y'all have a very nice range..

 

Thankyou 

we shot at your range a few years back and your range is very nice 

 

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Posted (edited)

Some of the bays up at The Cowboys have block walls and down at Dulzura the bays have cast concrete walls about 10’ tall. I’ve never heard of an issue with them at either place.

Edited by Yul Lose

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Block walls aren't really a negative factor for SASS matches. They do greatly limit the stage design for the modern action shooting sports.

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I would think cover them with wood would increase their lifespan.

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The man that owns the company I work for built his own concrete walls. Much like modern buildings are done. Made forms for pouring concrete tiles that were 6 inches thick and 8 foot wide by 8 feet tall. Planted steel 'H' beams in ground 8 feet apart. Had concrete poured into molds with eye bolts sticking out the top. When tiles were cured then attached chains to eye bolts and raise with tractor, guide them back down into the 'H' beams. Have enough forms setup to handle a load of concrete so when you call the truck out you take the full load.

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Posted (edited)

They tend to focus the sound, so as long as you don't have close neighbors (Not Texas close i.e 15 miles away, but like under a mile) you shouldn't have issues although folks may want to upgrade their hearing protection.  In addition to extending the lifespan of the walls, a wood covering helps to deaden the sound AND reduces bounce back of shotgun and bullet splatter.

 

Great shooting with you and Ellie at Dark Day in Florida!

Edited by Dogmeat Dad, SASS #48563L
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I've used large concrete blocks in my real-life job and seen side-loaded eye bolts shear and blocks fall endangering those nearby.  We switched to the swift lift system that avoids this hazard.  I recommend this system.

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My friend's indoor range uses concrete walls...kinda obviously... but we don't shoot at them directly. The back wall obviously it's a bullet trap.

 

How well the walls hold up with direct fire... I'd like to know.

 

Phantom

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Oklahoma Terrotorial Marshalls are working on a new bay using bailey barriers.(concrete highway construction barriers).

stack them up. Cover the exposed ends alOng the town side with wood.

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There is a concern if your loading and unloading tables are also in the berm and the muzzles are pointed directly at the concrete.  If there is an accidental discharge there is a chance of ricochet and or concrete bits coming back at the people at the table.  If the loading and unloading tables are directly facing the concrete you have to put some sort of wood with a gap between it and the concrete to capture the bullet and shrapnel. 

That and IF your perhaps a little hung over, those shotgun rounds are mighty loud first thing in the morning.:ph34r:

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25 minutes ago, Nutmeg Ryder, SASS # 74966 said:

There is a concern if your loading and unloading tables are also in the berm and the muzzles are pointed directly at the concrete.  If there is an accidental discharge there is a chance of ricochet and or concrete bits coming back at the people at the table.  If the loading and unloading tables are directly facing the concrete you have to put some sort of wood with a gap between it and the concrete to capture the bullet and shrapnel. 

That and IF your perhaps a little hung over, those shotgun rounds are mighty loud first thing in the morning.:ph34r:

Hang a couple layers of conveyor belt in problem areas like loading tables and target arrays that are angled towards the walls. Two layers will stop just about any handgun load and protect the concrete.

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Perhaps some form of a sandtrap or a smaller dirt berm at the Load and unload tables?

Please post your solution 'cause I'm interested.

 

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Ok sounds like this is an option, now to figure up the cost and how to move the blocks. I'm just in the planning stages. Thanks

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Concrete blocks will crack pretty easily from bullet impact.  I know you wouldn’t be shooting them straight on or on purpose but things happen.   Glancing shots probably wouldn’t be a problem with poof-tink loads, but might be with some of the warthog loads.  Filling the centers with concrete would beef them up considerably and adding rebar more so.

 

The ranges I’ve shot at that have concrete side walls were noticeably louder as others have said.  I don’t much like to shoot on ranges with bare concrete side walls because of the extra noise.  I’ll do it but don’t like it.  I prefer timber side walls.

 

If you are planning 8’ or 10 ‘ walls from concrete block make sure that you get some engineering advice (an experienced contractor is good too) because it doesn’t take much to capsize an unreinforced wall.  Wind or impacts from equipment could bring it down.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

T-Bone I was thinking of the concrete sound barriers they use along the interstate for our club but couldn't talk them into it. I'm not sure if it would be more or less but it would be an option. The way they put it up for miles you would think it wouldn't be too much but the Gov't isn't stingy with our money so maybe it's not so cheap? 

 

It's a real space saver 'cause it's thin and it would stop glancing rounds you'd think. 

images.jpg

Edited by Cowboy Junky
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Hey T bone... you might check with Trump, he can get you a deal on walls! But really, I think cement walls would work out well, but IMO they ought to be over 60" tall, a whirling round could get over that pretty easily. You wouldn't need to make it real tall much past where you set your rifle targets. From that point the lower wall would be OK, in fact, you might even not need it if you didn't want to go down range during the match.  No doubt that a full bay would be the nicest... but you could start with doing just the front, and as the money tree bears more fruit you could add to it. JMHO

 

Snakebite

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As others have said noisier and then the issue of the loading & unloading tables

 

my home range has wood berm walls , 2x6” ‘s on both sides of posts filled with gravel and I believe NRA approved 

 

AO

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our club has a few made of the large concrete blocks.
No issues other htan our IDPA guy hates them - idpa stages tend to be angled and you wan't want to use the concrete as a backstop - it will get chewed up and you have the risk of richochets.

And you need heavy equipment for installation and a foundation that won't sink.

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Posted (edited)

Howdy

 

Loud. Really Loud.

 

As has been stated, Concrete Block walls bounce the sound directly back at the folks in the bay, not just the shooter. Much more than traditional berms do.

 

The Great Nor'Easter has taken place at a range for years that has concrete block walls on some of the bays.

 

The sound is really LOUD. I much prefer shooting at the bays that do not use the concrete blocks for walls.

 

Cannot dispute though that they take up less room than a traditional berm.

Edited by Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283

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When you get to where you can bounce a bullet off the wall and still hit your target, you are the King.  Bumper pool, anyone?

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The wife and I shot at a match in Tampa, FL.  The range had concrete walls and ceiling.  It was incredibly loud and, for me, it was very hard to spot. 

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Loud Loud and loud. Sounds like I need to build barrier walls of wood.  So now what to do on our workday ???? Thanks Yall for all the help. T-Bone

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7 hours ago, T-Bone SASS #36388 said:

Loud Loud and loud. Sounds like I need to build barrier walls of wood.  So now what to do on our workday ???? Thanks Yall for all the help. T-Bone

 

Just put a wood cover a couple of inches away from the concrete. It will adsorb the sound and any errant projectiles.

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On 3/27/2019 at 8:11 PM, T-Bone SASS #36388 said:

Ok sounds like this is an option, now to figure up the cost and how to move the blocks. I'm just in the planning stages. Thanks

Ask the Egyptians, they're good at moving concrete blocks?:o:D

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On 3/27/2019 at 12:07 PM, T-Bone SASS #36388 said:

I am thing of upgrading the Bar 3 shooting Range and due to limited space I'm thinking of using concrete block walls. The local concrete company has large blocks 30"x 60"x 2.5' ,,,very nice looking wall. What do yall think of concrete as a barrier?? does or do you know of anyone using this method ??Pro's con's ???  Thanks T-Bone

 Should be fine T-Bone. I've worked on several ranges that had them with no issues....except for idjits who use them as backstops because they think cardboard stops bullets, LOL.

 

In all cases the walls were cinder block 8x8x16 concrete filled and they held up really well to angled strikes. Don't use split-face block. On narrow ranges this, according to one architect it was for sound mitigation because smooth face walls can cause an annoying echo. Apply sound mitigation panels instead or wood. Does the same thing but usually not a problem. The end bays at Winter Range, stages 11/12 fort & Coosie's have them. They use hay bales so the splatter doesn't dink the walls AND,, that splatter that's already traveling 20 degrees off a steel plate hits the wall at a nice angle to bounce it towards the shooters. Don't ask me how I know that, LOL.

 

The latest range the S.O built ten years ago here uses that same design on all the bays. I still work there part time in my "retirement" LOL. They did take my suggestion leaving one bay on the end open on that side because there was no safety need and because of the land we weren't going to expand that way. That bay is actually quieter! (And the money we saved not building the wall was spent on another bathroom or a light pole or something LOL)

 

Precast concrete would work, like jersey barriers only taller but the seams could be a riccochet problem. Maybe. 

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Ok thanks y'all. I have decided to do something else with the Range money  and a a work day.  Nuttin has volenteered to take on electric lead man, Reckon has the plumbing covered, Marshall Jack is in charge of Carpenters, this should get very interesting before the end of the project

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OOOO, OOO, I know. Build a hotel for your guests to stay in!

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Posted (edited)

T-Bone SASS: As you pointed out, concrete walls are great space savers. But, as has been commented on, they are a lot louder (which might affect neighbors more than shooters already wearing ear protection). Regardless, it is important to point out that concrete walls are significantly louder, so a lot has to do with where your range is. I was RSO at a local target range today and we were talking about a concrete block wall that runs down the left side of the range (see photo). To Phantom's point about direct hits, some of the club's shooters have tried to go after our local California Fence Lizards over the years, and in addition to getting some gas from the RSOs on duty, their rounds have punctured* the wall. Hard to see in the photo, but there are about 30 dark spots that are holes in the wall. I have no idea of the calibers, and none of the rounds went completely through the wall. 

 

I don't think our fellow cowboy shooters would be as reckless, but... (Sorry I don't have better photo of wall but it was just by chance that I took the photo today.)

 

*I'm not sure the rounds actually "punctured" the wall, but they shattered the concrete and made a hole.

 

RR

IMG_5173.jpg

Edited by Roger Rapid

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