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As Many of you know I have been a CPL Instructor for many years .

A Concealed Pistol is too your advantage , 

Because the bad guy dont know who has a gun and who dont .

The element of surprise is on your side !

( If Ever Needed )

 

On the other side of the coin .

If I was a bad guy doing wrong .

The Open carry guy would be the first guy taken out of the equation !

 

As for as calling the police on someone for open carry go"s .

This Friend is one of the problems with today's society .

Just sayin .

Rooster   

  

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17 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Don't think that's a valid point any longer.......

Image result for armed uk airport police pictures

 

It was never a valid point.  I was just commenting on the mindset of the person in question.  He might very well think cops are mental because they are armed. 

 

4 hours ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

On the other side of the coin .

If I was a bad guy doing wrong .

The Open carry guy would be the first guy taken out of the equation !

 

  

 

What if there was 2 people carrying openly?  How many would it take to make you go away?  If I was a bad guy wanting to do wrong and saw ONE person carrying openly, I'd go somewhere else to ply my trade.  Of course, if criminals were prone to making rational decisions, there would be a lot fewer criminals. 

 

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I think the majority of the public (excluding the AOC types) expect to see uniformed police and military open carry. Even with some of the more "relaxed" police uniforms (polo short, badge on belt) it would seem odd to see them not openly carry.

 

I like to blend in with the crowd. Now that was hard to do with a Montana Peak and a big, shiny Sam Browne belt. But now if we go out I carry on the belt with a shirt or jacket over the top. Or a vest. I will open carry on our property, but a run into town will bring one of the covers I mentioned.

 

I do like the element of surprise when it's "go" time.

 

The down side is running into a neighbor or friend who asks you out loud in a store, "What are you packing today?" Sheesh.

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On 3/27/2019 at 7:34 AM, Chili Ron said:

Howdy,

I hear some states allow open and conceal carry with no paperwork.

Anyone know which these are?

Probably Alaska.

Best

CR

 

Even "our side" gets this wrong.

We have the RIGHT to keep and bear arms.  Our rights are inalienable, according to the Declaration of Independence.  States do not "allow" rights.  Rights exist whether any government likes it or not, as in, "endowed by their creator".  The States in question do not allow open carry, they simply don't restrict the inalienable rights of the people.

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27 minutes ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

If I was a bad guy wanting to do wrong and saw ONE person carrying openly, I'd go somewhere else to ply my trade.

 

I think that would depend on how badly the bad guy wanted to do whatever he was thinking of doing, plus his assessment of your situational awareness. Too many of us, even the open carriers are in Condition White all day long and a seasoned thug knows exactly how to deal with you.

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I choose not to open carry.

 

The sight of someone wearing a gun peaks my attention- more from the aspect that I want to see what they are carrying and the holster choices they have made.;)

 

That being said, I don't get a case of the vapors over the sight of a holstered pistol.  I pay more attention to them but it's like paying attention to the moving car while walking through a parking lot than it is the focused watching of a likely threat.

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30 minutes ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

 

I think that would depend on how badly the bad guy wanted to do whatever he was thinking of doing, plus his assessment of your situational awareness. Too many of us, even the open carriers are in Condition White all day long and a seasoned thug knows exactly how to deal with you.

 

I agree.

 

During the past few years (maybe 10 or so), numerous uniformed LEOs have been ambused and totally caught off guard by

an assailant, especially with a gun.

I don't remember where it happened, but it wasn't that long ago that FOUR officers were gunned down, I think in 

a restaurant.   All were in uniform but the Perp was wanting to kill them.

I don't recall all the details, but I think all 4 were killed but the Perp was also shot by one of the officers.

 

The appearance of a firearm MIGHT deter a criminal act, but it might not also.

One thing for sure, open carry does allow others to know your presence and target viability.

 

..........Widder

 

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5 hours ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

If I was a bad guy doing wrong .

The Open carry guy would be the first guy taken out of the equation

I keep seeing that argument, and it makes absolutely no sense.

 

Here I am, Joe Junkie. I'm going into the 7-11 to rob them of the $50 they keep in the register. I need a fix. When I go in the door, I see a guy at the hot dog rack wearing a holstered pistol. I'm going to turn a "five year, be out in two" armed robbery sentence into a ride on Old Sparky, by changing Armed Robbery into Murder One. For $50.

 

I believe instead, I would back out of the store and go down the block to the Circle K, and rob them. The odds are pretty good but nobody is wearing a gun in that store.

 

If I was part of a gang, and we had been planning the bank heist 3 weeks, and when we bust in there's someone in the teller line wearing a pistol - we probably aren't going to turn around and leave. We have too much tied up in this. But even then I doubt we would shoot him. most likely stick a gun in his face and say, "Give me your pistol".

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6 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

I agree.

 

During the past few years (maybe 10 or so), numerous uniformed LEOs have been ambused and totally caught off guard by

an assailant, especially with a gun.

I don't remember where it happened, but it wasn't that long ago that FOUR officers were gunned down, I think in 

a restaurant.   All were in uniform but the Perp was wanting to kill them.

I don't recall all the details, but I think all 4 were killed but the Perp was also shot by one of the officers.

 

The appearance of a firearm MIGHT deter a criminal act, but it might not also.

One thing for sure, open carry does allow others to know your presence and target viability.

 

..........Widder

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/4-lakewood-officers-slain-ex-con-sought-for-questioning/

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I don't think the Lakewood incident is a warning against open carry. It just proves that you can be fully armed with your weapon within easy reach, and the bad guy will still kill you if he simply decides to gun you down with no advance warning. After all, how many Old West legends met their fate this way? A lot.

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1 minute ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

I don't think the Lakewood incident is a warning against open carry. It just proves that you can be fully armed with your weapon within easy reach, and the bad guy will still kill you if he simply decides to gun you down with no advance warning. After all, how many Old West legends met their fate this way? A lot.

The Lakewood deal was also from lack of the officers situational awareness, and not being in 'Condition Yellow'.

Respectfully,

OLG

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7 hours ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

As Many of you know I have been a CPL Instructor for many years .

A Concealed Pistol is too your advantage , 

Because the bad guy dont know who has a gun and who dont .

The element of surprise is on your side !

( If Ever Needed )

 

On the other side of the coin .

If I was a bad guy doing wrong .

The Open carry guy would be the first guy taken out of the equation !

 

As for as calling the police on someone for open carry go"s .

This Friend is one of the problems with today's society .

Just sayin .

Rooster   

  

I agree wholeheartedly on the last point. The others depend on the situation as most everything does. 

Situation where someone comes in shooting: Open carry has the advantage(I dont have to dig my firearm out of my britches to bring it into play).

Situation of an opportunistic robber: open carry will have the advantage of not providing the "opportunity" for a soft target. Robber goes to the concealed carrier and robs him. Maybe gets shot but still causing hassle for the concealed carrier. This would fit into most cases of robbery I would think.

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21 hours ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

 

When you said that I immediately though of actor Sean Penn. A huge anti-gun celebrity for many years, but when he married his most recent ex he claimed to give up his guns for her. They included a plethora of so-called "assault weapons". Of course he also has a NYC carry permit so I doubt he gave them ALL up.

Sean Penn is entitled.  My deceased nephew was a PA and volunteered to help with EQ relief in Haiti.  He and his fellow medical volunteers were setup on a sports field in Port Au Prince when they were evicted; so Sean Penn & his entourage could occupy the field.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Alpo said:

I keep seeing that argument, and it makes absolutely no sense.

 

Here I am, Joe Junkie. I'm going into the 7-11 to rob them of the $50 they keep in the register. I need a fix. When I go in the door, I see a guy at the hot dog rack wearing a holstered pistol. I'm going to turn a "five year, be out in two" armed robbery sentence into a ride on Old Sparky, by changing Armed Robbery into Murder One. For $50.

 

I believe instead, I would back out of the store and go down the block to the Circle K, and rob them. The odds are pretty good but nobody is wearing a gun in that store.

 

This assumes the junkie has the capacity for rational thought. He doesn't. He's desperate and capable of doing innumerable insane things. I have personal experience with this. They don't think like us and the big mistake people make is assuming they do.

 

In my world, my gun is for my protection. It's not a deterrent.

 

Edited by Abilene Slim SASS 81783
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5 hours ago, Smuteye John SASS#24774 said:

The sight of someone wearing a gun peaks my attention- more from the aspect that I want to see what they are carrying and the holster choices they have made.;)

 

I was going to say that earlier.  I appreciate people who open carry for 2 reasons.  #1 is this.  It's like a cute girl who wears skimpy clothes.  It's nice to look.  Reason #2 is as a distraction for the bad guy in case anything goes down.  Whatever I decide to do (run fight or hide) if the bad guy is focusing on open carry larry, it gives me time to do it. 

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Like J-Bar said earlier, one good thing about open carriers is they can be the bullet magnet while I seek cover and explore my options. ;)

 

I think I've come across maybe 3-4 open carriers in my life. The funny thing was, each time the dude was carrying some bizarre-looking semi-auto that I couldn't recognize. Most likely some cheap imported gun you only find on the bottom shelf in a pawn shop.

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5 minutes ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

Like J-Bar said earlier, one good thing about open carriers is they can be the bullet magnet while I seek cover and explore my options. ;)

 

I think I've come across maybe 3-4 open carriers in my life. The funny thing was, each time the dude was carrying some bizarre-looking semi-auto that I couldn't recognize. Most likely some cheap imported gun you only find on the bottom shelf in a pawn shop.

Must a local thing.

 

We have some around here.  Lots of Fantastic Plastic bottom feeder in kydex Holsters.  Every once in a while, I'll see a 1911 ( often carried hammer down for some dumb reason).  Saw a guy carrying one of those little Sig single action .380's last week.

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No, you don't get many open carriers around Seattle, and those who are don't seem to be hardcore gun enthusiasts as I've yet to see anything that looks like it'd retail for more than $300 in someone's holster. Can't recall what the holsters themselves looked like, however.

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1 hour ago, Smuteye John SASS#24774 said:

Must a local thing.

 

We have some around here.  Lots of Fantastic Plastic bottom feeder in kydex Holsters.  Every once in a while, I'll see a 1911 ( often carried hammer down for some dumb reason).  Saw a guy carrying one of those little Sig single action .380's last week.

 

I carry my Para double stack 1911 with the hammer in the safety notch. Something that most 1911s don’t have. My practice is the same as that of my SASS/CAS practice in that I draw with the strong hand and cock the hammer with the other.

 

Never liked “cocked and locked” and after seeing a hole in the jacket of a guy who carried that way, I asked how it happened. His ambidextrous safety on his “tuned and tricked out” 1911 got bumped, disengaged, and allowed the hammer to fall.  He’d used a horizontal hang holster and it also ventilated the seat of his car!

 

I put a good bit of thought into my choices of carry weapons.  Some will differ with what I think.  I figure whatever works for you is what you should do.

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Posted (edited)

There's also that video of that guy working on his car in his driveway with an open carry in an unrestrained holster that gets his gun stolen...

 

I'm not against open carry, but I have concerns about some of the idiots that do...

 

Edited by Red Eye Jim
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On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 8:02 AM, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I got a good pard, cowboy shooter, concealed carry guy, NRA member and I was surprised at his reaction to a discussion we had about OPEN CARRY. He stated that if he saw someone open carrying he would call the police! Mind you now, Ohio has had OPEN CARRY since the 1850's!!! It's perfectly legal to do it here! I was shocked that he was so against it! I asked why would you call the police on someone when he's not breaking any law? He said that anyone that carried openly needs mental evaluation!! :blink:

 

Thoughts??

 

Rye

 

Normally, usually, generally (NUG), I view an open carrier as less of a threat than someone else who may exhibit indicators suggesting that I keep an eye on them.  Anyone being that blatant about their carrying of a firearm (not to be confused with brandishing a firearm), automatically relegates them to an already-noted and evaluated threat, and usually lower-level threat.

 

A person bent upon mischief won't often invite the scrutiny that comes from openly carrying a firearm. 

 

In the words of Townes Van Zandt, "He wore his gun outside his pants, for all the honest world to feel."

 

 

Keep your powder dry,

 

Wild Ben

 

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On 3/28/2019 at 9:10 AM, Alpo said:

I keep seeing that argument, and it makes absolutely no sense.

 

Here I am, Joe Junkie. I'm going into the 7-11 to rob them of the $50 they keep in the register. I need a fix. When I go in the door, I see a guy at the hot dog rack wearing a holstered pistol. I'm going to turn a "five year, be out in two" armed robbery sentence into a ride on Old Sparky, by changing Armed Robbery into Murder One. For $50.

 

I believe instead, I would back out of the store and go down the block to the Circle K, and rob them. The odds are pretty good but nobody is wearing a gun in that store.

 

If I was part of a gang, and we had been planning the bank heist 3 weeks, and when we bust in there's someone in the teller line wearing a pistol - we probably aren't going to turn around and leave. We have too much tied up in this. But even then I doubt we would shoot him. most likely stick a gun in his face and say, "Give me your pistol".

You have the same mindset that I do. I keep hearing the "The Bad Guy will take you out first" argument, but to my knowledge, it's not happened, at least to a civilian. With these Police shootings, it's more a matter of the Bad Guy wanting to kill cops, not the gun. 

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18 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

 

I carry my Para double stack 1911 with the hammer in the safety notch. Something that most 1911s don’t have. My practice is the same as that of my SASS/CAS practice in that I draw with the strong hand and cock the hammer with the other.

 

Never liked “cocked and locked” and after seeing a hole in the jacket of a guy who carried that way, I asked how it happened. His ambidextrous safety on his “tuned and tricked out” 1911 got bumped, disengaged, and allowed the hammer to fall.  He’d used a horizontal hang holster and it also ventilated the seat of his car!

 

I put a good bit of thought into my choices of carry weapons.  Some will differ with what I think.  I figure whatever works for you is what you should do.

Every Colt made 1911 I have worked on has the hammer safety notch as that was part of JMB design.

It was never meant for a safe carry condition.

'Cocked-n-locked' was one of the conditions JMB designed for the 1911.

OLG

 

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On 3/27/2019 at 11:13 PM, Capt. James H. Callahan said:

New Mexico used to be, maybe not since the D*moncr@ts control it now. I live in a small Texas town and work in another, and VERY rarely see it. I'm not a fan, mostly because I consider it a tactical error. Texas is working on Constitutional carry, but not there yet. Our carry license is quite stringent. I always carry concealed. Just me.

JHC

Though the Democrats control Santa Fe they did make as many changes to gun laws as we feared they would.  Open carry is still legal without a permit in most locations.  I carry openly in rural locations where I want to sent a message to feral bipeds to leave me alone.

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Know your surroundings and do your best to be respectful accordingly.

 

There are times when having a right and exercising a right is a good thing, and there are times when excising a right is not right or the right time.

 

For the record, and sounding like a broken record - I support a person's 2nd Amendment right and however they legally wish to exercise that right, open or concealed.

 

Being respectful of those around you plays a big part in how we continue the fight for our right(s).

 

As far as a person who claims to support the 2nd Amendment, but calls the cops on a person who is legally exercising their right via open carry is an idiot. 

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Abeline Slim is right about mental state and rational behavior.
Junkies have neither.
As a lawman I practiced weapon retention and used a retention holster (early version, Bianchi's The Judge, which in reality was very easily defeated)
No wish to have to practice weapon retention now.

No, I believe concealed is the way to go.

(On the other hand, I'm just a poor dumb hillbilly, what do I know, eh?)

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

 

I carry my Para double stack 1911 with the hammer in the safety notch. Something that most 1911s don’t have. My practice is the same as that of my SASS/CAS practice in that I draw with the strong hand and cock the hammer with the other.

 

Never liked “cocked and locked” and after seeing a hole in the jacket of a guy who carried that way, I asked how it happened. His ambidextrous safety on his “tuned and tricked out” 1911 got bumped, disengaged, and allowed the hammer to fall.  He’d used a horizontal hang holster and it also ventilated the seat of his car!

 

I put a good bit of thought into my choices of carry weapons.  Some will differ with what I think.  I figure whatever works for you is what you should do.

You do what you want, but I see lowering the hammer on a 1911 like that's a negligent discharge waiting for a place to happen. 

 

It can't be any saver than just engaging the thumb safety.  

 

When cocked and locked, a Series 80 gun like the Para has the trigger, sear,  hammer and firing pin disabled.  To disable all 3 safeties, all you have to do is grab the gun in a shooting grip, depress the thumb safety and pull the trigger. Taking a shooting grip on the gun disables the grip safety that disables the trigger.  Thumbing the safety down removes the block on sear and hammer movement and pressing the trigger fully disables the firing pin block safety.

 

How is manually lowering the hammer- which can only be done by disabling all safeties and riding the hammer down on a live round in the chamber-  safer, faster or more efficient than just leaving it back and engaging the thumb safety?

Edited by Smuteye John SASS#24774
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Having the thumb safety “bumped and disengaged” on a 1911 will absolutely not cause a discharge.

 

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I'm guessing the thumb safety was bumped & disengaged, the grip safety was pinned down, AND the trigger was set to 2.5#. Then I'd believe it.

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21 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

 

I carry my Para double stack 1911 with the hammer in the safety notch. Something that most 1911s don’t have. My practice is the same as that of my SASS/CAS practice in that I draw with the strong hand and cock the hammer with the other.

 

Never liked “cocked and locked” and after seeing a hole in the jacket of a guy who carried that way, I asked how it happened. His ambidextrous safety on his “tuned and tricked out” 1911 got bumped, disengaged, and allowed the hammer to fall.  He’d used a horizontal hang holster and it also ventilated the seat of his car!

 

I put a good bit of thought into my choices of carry weapons.  Some will differ with what I think.  I figure whatever works for you is what you should do.

 

Whenever I see the phrase “tuned and tricked out" it causes me to pause....

 

:D

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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I'd never call the police about open carry, but I live in AZ.  Personally if you are going to carry, carry concealed and share with those who are important to you and no one else.  Especially in a urban setting.  The trouble with open carry, it can invite someone to try to remove it from you. Hopefully you'll never need to display your weapon, but should you it should be a surprise.

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2 hours ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

I'm guessing the thumb safety was bumped & disengaged, the grip safety was pinned down, AND the trigger was set to 2.5#. Then I'd believe it.

Even then, the Series 80 firing pin safety- if present- would be engaged and prevent the firing pin from hitting the primer. It only disengages when the trigger is fully depressed.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Smuteye John SASS#24774 said:

You do what you want, but I see lowering the hammer on a 1911 like that's a negligent discharge waiting for a place to happen. 

 

It can't be any saver than just engaging the thumb safety.  

 

When cocked and locked, a Series 80 gun like the Para has the trigger, sear,  hammer and firing pin disabled.  To disable all 3 safeties, all you have to do is grab the gun in a shooting grip, depress the thumb safety and pull the trigger. Taking a shooting grip on the gun disables the grip safety that disables the trigger.  Thumbing the safety down removes the block on sear and hammer movement and pressing the trigger fully disables the firing pin block safety.

 

How is manually lowering the hammer- which can only be done by disabling all safeties and riding the hammer down on a live round in the chamber-  safer, faster or more efficient than just leaving it back and engaging the thumb safety?

 

You apparently missed the part about the Para having a safety notch built in!  The grip safety prevents the hammer from falling as normal, BUT also locks the trigger into the safety notch, not available on Colts and other most permutations of the 1911!!  This prevents the firing pin from reaching the chambered cartridge until the grip safety is actuated and the hammer is pulled back into the cocked position. Like I said....  NOT your normal 1911.  We have tested the gun extensively, (including drop tests and even hitting the hammer from behind while in condition as described)  It didn't discharge!! It works and I don't have to modify my weapon with an ambidextrous safety to use it!! 

 

Don't know what other circumstances were present, but his clothier and his upholsterer are both a little better off financially as a result. These results were seen by me.  I've heard of other cases.  As you said, you do what you want. B)

Edited by Blackwater 53393

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On 3/27/2019 at 10:13 PM, Capt. James H. Callahan said:

New Mexico used to be, maybe not since the D*moncr@ts control it now. I live in a small Texas town and work in another, and VERY rarely see it. I'm not a fan, mostly because I consider it a tactical error. Texas is working on Constitutional carry, but not there yet. Our carry license is quite stringent. I always carry concealed. Just me.

JHC

Don't need a license to carry, but if you do have one you don't need to go through the background check BS.  My first Arizona permit me about $50.00 and took less than a week to get it back to me in California.   No photo, no fingerprints, no statement from everyone I ever knew, no hsitory of my life from the time Dad first saw Mom, no hassle. I renewed about  two months ago and had my new license in about a week.

 

When I left California you had to submit a dictionary sized package f paperwork, pay nearly $300.00, and it was taking almost 6 months to get it to you.....if they didn't sent it back for some reason or reject it.

 

I like Arizona's way better.

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2 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

Don't need a license to carry, but if you do have one you don't need to go through the background check BS.  My first Arizona permit me about $50.00 and took less than a week to get it back to me in California.   No photo, no fingerprints, no statement from everyone I ever knew, no hsitory of my life from the time Dad first saw Mom, no hassle. I renewed about  two months ago and had my new license in about a week.

 

When I left California you had to submit a dictionary sized package f paperwork, pay nearly $300.00, and it was taking almost 6 months to get it to you.....if they didn't sent it back for some reason or reject it.

 

I like Arizona's way better.

we all do, Forty, we all do.

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