Rough 'N Ready Rob Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 I pickup a Marlin 1898 shotgun 12ga. are they safe to use as cowboy guns? Thanks for any help. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Art Tillery Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 If I remember correctly.. No they are not allowed. Considered "unsafe" because of some safetly failures that keeps the bolt from flying back possibly when fired. Sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.. Neat shotguns though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 They are not legal for SASS nor should you shoot it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 Marlin declared them unsafe after there were many failures. You can do some checks of the major issues. We did that on one gun but the metal failed anyway and almost put a metal sliver through the shooter's eye. They make a good wall hanger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 The local gun shop has one hanging on the wall. They will not sell it because of the danger mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 NO Not SASS legal, and Marlin says not to fire them even with real BP loads. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Quote The only slide action shotgun allowed is the Model 1897 Winchester shotgun, whether original or replica. Certain shooting categories require a specific type of shotgun and ammunition to be used. Military configurations are not allowed (i.e., trench guns). SHB p.39 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Drydock #1248 Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Earp SASS#1628L Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Wow, Sgt. Drydock. Haven't seen you on the Wire in years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 There is no doubt that they are not legal for use in SASS. There is good reason to say that they should not be fired. They are very interesting looking gun, that is to be sure. There is, admittedly, some controversy over if all of them are unsafe to fire. There are some design defects that do make them potentially quite dangerous, but there are those who assert that, if the gun passes certain safety checks, they are safe to fire with black powder loads in shells of the proper length. In other words, no 2-3/4" smokeless loads. I do not own one, but would like to have one because they are so interesting to look at. IF I ever got one, I'd probably prefer one in safe working condition, but how do you know if it is? Here is a rundown on the safety checks you can do to check it... http://marauder.homestead.com/files/marlin98s.htm I have seen three in my life, and I passed on all three of them. The first was at an antique store in NH. This was when I decided they were a visually interesting gun, but knowing that there safety concerns, I did not even ask to look at it. I also did not at that time know of the safety checks. The second one I found was at a gunshop in NH. I performed the safety checks in the list, and it failed all of them. I gave a print out of the checks to the shop owner, and he thanked me for it. The next time I was in the shop, the checklist was attached to the gun, and the tag said, "NOT A SHOOTER." The third one was at my local Cabelas. It was a factory 18.5" barrel with police markings. It was in good looking shape, for a very good price, and I could not perform the safety checks due to the trigger lock, which the store refused to remove to allow me to check it out, even under supervision. They would not even take the gun out back to perform the checks themselves. Needless to say, I passed on it as well. I know of one other that a local respected gunsmith has. He offered it to me for sale once, saying that he was certain it was in shootable condition, but I bought his Burgess shotgun instead. This is another old time pump that should be fired only with shorter, black powder shells, but it has no safety problems. Unfortunately for some reason, it's not allowed for SASS either, due to the "The 97 is the only allowed pump shotgun" rule. Take it all with a grain of salt. If the price is right and it interests you, buy it. If it passes the safety checks and you load up some 2-1/2" black powder shells, well, only you can decide if you should try to shoot it in the light of the above information. Personally, I'd love to see a modern replica of this gun that overcomes the safety issues. It would probably never be SASS approved, but it would still be wicked cool to own one that you can shoot without fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 I had one and had full intentions of making it my first CAS shotgun. This was prior to the Winchester 1897 being the only legal pump gun for the game. I was young and a complete gun nut but I lacked the knowledge I have now. The shop I bought it from convinced me that it was going to be the perfect SASS gun for me. I even remember taking it back home and putting a box of Federal Top Gun target loads through it. The more research I did I found out that Marlin did not want these guns to be shot especially with modern ammo. The shop took the gun back and I bought a Stoeger instead. It was cool though and different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 I have, and have had several of these. One, (a model 19) was my main match gun for several years, right up until the day that SASS decided that the '97 was the only pump gun they'd allow. I have a model 49 and a model 42 that were made in 1929 and 1934 respectively. This was LONG after smokeless shotgun shells became the order of the day. Both were/are chambered for 2 3/4" shells. Both are original. The '49's barrel was shortened because someone damaged it before I decided to rescue it. I sold a pristine model 24 several years ago to a gentleman who still hunts with it every fall. The original 1898 had a design flaw in the bolt locking mechanism that could, and in several cases did fail, causing injuries and some reports of fatalities. This flaw was corrected in the models that followed, starting with, (I think) the model 17. From what I have read, these later editions had no reported injures attributed to them, when handled and fired properly, but the reputation of the '98 stuck. I'll ad here that the Winchester '93 was only reported to fail when used with smokeless ammunition or when one or another of the safety features failed to work, usually from neglect or excessive wear, and that the '97 has and WILL do the same! (I have a '97 that had the bolt blown out the back of the receiver as the result of and OUT OF BATTERY discharge. Fredrick Jackson Turner had the same thing happen to him! AND THERE ARE OTHERS!!) In the "Marlin Letter" they claim that the materials are suspect. They make no statement of any design flaw. Given the current climate of litigative probabilities, I won't recommend that ANYONE to buy or shoot any of the Marlin exposed hammer shotguns! I WILL say that if the ban was lifted in SASS, I'd have that old model 19 in my gun cart the next time I went to a match!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rough 'N Ready Rob Posted March 24, 2019 Author Share Posted March 24, 2019 I want to thank everyone for all the returns and great information. Sad, but it looks like I got me a wall hanger, Cool looking one. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 A great video! Yes, that is my web page. I had a Marlin (there are several models based on the 1898, including the 19, 42, etc.) A couple good pards reviewed the information and we tested a cowboys Marlin. It passed the tests just fine. So we took it to the range and shot our mild cowboy loads. After a few shots, the metal (I think on the frame) failed and sent a sliver back into the shooters cheek. Fortunately the safety glasses deflected it so that i stuck into his cheek and bled a little but it was not as bad as it could have been. If you are familiar with old firearms, you will remember that many guns failed in WW 1. They did do metal hardening but the process was not as idiot proof enough. Just a slight change in time, etc would produce a gun with weak metal. So guns were literally blowing up. (Remember that we did not have decades of experience with smokeless powder back then.) So in about 1918, they reviewed and updated the procedures for hardening steel. So the word went out, be very careful of any gun made prior to 1918. Later in the 1930's they further improved the process even more, then again in the early 1940's. Very few people or shops have the technology available to test the metals. So... Are your eyes and face worth the risk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Wheeler Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 6 hours ago, Rough 'N Ready Rob said: I want to thank everyone for all the returns and great information. Sad, but it looks like I got me a wall hanger, Cool looking one. Rob Hope it didn't set you back much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four-Eyed Buck,SASS #14795 Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Had an 1898 that I used for a couple seasons, but once the letter came out I retired it and went to a Stoeger. Cool gun, but not worth the risks associated with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 Someone mentioned the Winchester 93. With the caveat that it has 2.5" chambers and was designed for black powder, I am of the opinion that with that combination of ammunition, it is safe to fire. The real reason Winchester recalled the 93 was that smokeless 2-5/8" shells had become the new standard, and they were rightly concerned that such shells could cause catastrophic damage to a 93. This is why real 93's are so rare, most of them were destroyed. But the few that are out there are still in pretty good shape. I know mine is. It's no different from shooting a vintage 87 really, just use the right ammunition and you'll be fine. In fact, if you compare a 93 to a 97, the former is clearly much beefier in its construction. Would I consider shooting smokeless in it if the chamber was lengthened to 2-3/44"? No. As far as the shells not chambering properly, that is to say that the back of the shell sticks out at an angle and could theoretically be set off by the extractor slamming into the primer, I tried my darndest, using snap caps, to try to make this happen. The only way I could cause was to tilt the gun to the right in excess of 45 degrees. Not something that I am ever gonna do on purpose. And when you consider that we basically use the pump gun as if it were a fancy single shot, I can think of no logical reason why the 93 is not allowed. Or for that matter the 93/97, which is essentially a 97 made to look like a 93. The actual reason why neither gun is SASS okay is because they are "not a 97." See above referenced rule. Oh, and even though your 97 may be marked 2-3/4" it's really 2-5/8" The measured the length differently back then somehow. So that means either using shorter shells or having the chamber lengthened. I've chosen to go with the shorter shells myself. Usually all brass ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Drydock #1248 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 I'm still around, there's a nice video of me in the "Alternate catagories" thread a few days ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 I saw two of those in use back before they were illegal as well. Both shooters had no issues but I don't think the shooter's knew any better......that was when information was MUCH harder to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rough 'N Ready Rob Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 In hind sight I guess I should have checked on the wire before I put out any gold. I guess if I get tired of seeing it around I can take it to a gun buy back and get most of my gold back.. Thanks again to all for the help. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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