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737 crashes


Trigger Mike

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I'm not a pilot so I don't know much about aircraft.  I recall that the last crash Boeing reiterated procedures on flying the max 8. I am told the guy in charge of take off on this latest flight only had 200 hours flight time so a so called expert said likely pilot error yet on the radio an aircraft inspector said they should ground the aircraft.  Does anybody have input on this matter?

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Still too early to get much information.  Some planes have been grounded, while many more are still in service.  One article in the NY Times seems to indicate that the first one to crash had a problem with a poorly maintained flight control system that may have contributed to the crash.  Most of the planes that have been grounded are from some of the smaller airlines.  France, which does not have any 737s registered has banned them, as has the UK, from overflying, landing or taking off from their airspace.  The flight data recorders, if in good shape, will start giving up data pretty quickly.

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12 minutes ago, Major Crimes said:

From the Australian Broadcaster for what its worth, I dont know why they are quoting POTUS?

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-13/trump-says-planes-are-too-complex-to-fly/10894858

 

They just showed that on FOX. He's not exactly correct.

 

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There are many US airlines flying the same model and others with no problems. One expert aviation guy I saw saidthat it's more a matter of trainng and expertise than bad equipment.

There has been a tremendous reduction in air crashes in the past 30 years or so since computerized systems began to be installed. The systems can be overridden by a well trained crew.

Aviation analyst Michael Boyd just said on Fox that the first officer, with only 200 hours, was essentially a pilot trainee, and would never be flying right seat on an American passenger or cargo airline.

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1 hour ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

They just showed that on FOX. He's not exactly correct.

 

 

I just dont understand the Australian Press' facination with "Your" President.

 

I swear I see more press about POTUS then our own Prime Minister and we are 2/3 months out from a General Election? Its yet to be called but we all know its coming.

 

US politics is none of our business (passing curiosity yes, business no), we (Australians) have no right to tell you or infer anything about how you run your country, just as we would get upset if you were to try and tell us what to do.

 

1 hour ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

There are many US airlines flying the same model and others with no problems. One expert aviation guy I saw saidthat it's more a matter of trainng and expertise than bad equipment.

There has been a tremendous reduction in air crashes in the past 30 years or so since computerized systems began to be installed. The systems can be overridden by a well trained crew.

Aviation analyst Michael Boyd just said on Fox that the first officer, with only 200 hours, was essentially a pilot trainee, and would never be flying right seat on an American passenger or cargo airline.

 

I just saw an Aussie commentator make a similar point.

He said in the US and Aust this wouldnt have happened but that you cant count on that level of training all round the world.

He said all aircraft should be "safe in the hands of an average pilot on an average day". That seems to be a realistic and sensible standadrd to set, to me? I guess the trick is to define "average" and then ensure all the other airlines and countries stick to that.

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My understanding is that there is a problem with the flight control automatic pitch trim control, which, if it senses the nose of the plane going up too much or too rapidly, will command a nose down command that will, if not corrected send the plane into the ground.  The pilots apparently can NOT override this just by pulling back on the control yokes.  That should be modified out of the flight control software.  BUT...there is a simple thing to stop this....REACH DOWN AND THROW THE SWITCH THAT TURNS OFF THE AUTOMATIC PITCH CONTROL!

 

Of course, this should be corrected by Boeing, and until they do so, IMHO, the 737-MAX-8 SHOULD be grounded, and I believe the FAA has issued an Air Worthiness Directive (AWD) for some corrective action to be taken within the next 14 days! (I could be mistaken!)  My son-in-law and older grandson were due to fly into Denver tonight, though I don't know what type aircraft they were scheduled on.  Makes no difference... Because of the approaching blizzard, ALL flights have been grounded until Friday!  :o :rolleyes:   All the schools have been ordered closed, as well...the first time I can remember such a thing for all districts in Colorado!  Which means...the storm will probably bypass us with only a dusting!  Or, we could get three feet of snow on our back patio...like March of 2003, when I had bought a brand-new Ford Expedition with 4-wheel drive...and couldn't get the garage door open to get the vehicle out! :P

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According to The New York Times, when Boeing first rolled out the 737 Max 8, the Federal Aviation Administration determined there were not enough differences between the new model and the prior iteration of 737 to require pilots to go through simulator training — a decision that saved the airlines time and money, and made Boeing's new plane more competitive. That means, however, pilots remained unfamiliar with the MCAS system, even though it plays a key role in controlling the plane under certain circumstances. And even though the system could be influenced by a faulty sensor reading, The New York Times reports "there is no evidence that Boeing did flight-testing of MCAS with erroneous sensor data, and it is not clear whether the FAA did so." 

From

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boeing-737-max-8-boeing-737-800-how-are-the-planes-different/

 

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Just goes to show that there is one factor that apparently supersedes all others...money!  Unless domestic passengers start boycotting the MAX-8 in droves, the airlines will keep flying them!  And the FAA won't do a damned thing about it!  Don't believe me?  FAA did NOT ground the 747's after the TWA Flight 800 explosion, and only issued the AWD (Air Worthiness Directive) requiring inerting of the centerline fuel tank with a requirement that the airlines had TEN YEARS to implement the modification!  As I pointed out previously, the main thing to do right now, is to issue an AWD requiring Boeing to issue an emergency tech order change notifying pilots that all they have to do if the MCAS system goes haywire is to TURN IT OFF! (Two switches on the center console???) Meantime, Boeing needs to work on the software to prevent the problem.

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11 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

The senior pilot only had 200 hours in the airframe. I’m Europe, Canada, Australia and the US. He wouldn’t have even been a co-pilot. 

 

I read that it was the First Officer, not the Captain. Still, he wouldn't have been in the cockpit on a US ariline.

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22 hours ago, Major Crimes said:

I just dont understand the Australian Press' facination with "Your" President.

 

Or the British, French, and Canadian press. Pretty much the entire world follows Trump's antics with a sense of morbid curiosity never seen before with a world leader.

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23 hours ago, Major Crimes said:

I just dont understand the Australian Press' facination with "Your" President.

And I don't understand the America fascination with the Royal family.

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2 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

And I don't understand the America fascination with the Royal family.

 

That is actually an easy one to answer::ph34r:

Many US citizens and Canadian citizens long for the Good Olde days of Royalty.:wub:

That's why, here in Canada, we elected the son of one former Prime Minister to lead the country and the US elected the Bushs and tried to elect the Clintons.:blink:

Our own, homegrown versions of Royalty.:lol:

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20 hours ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said:

 

That is actually an easy one to answer::ph34r:

Many US citizens and Canadian citizens long for the Good Olde days of Royalty.:wub:

That's why, here in Canada, we elected the son of one former Prime Minister to lead the country and the US elected the Bushs and tried to elect the Clintons.:blink:

Our own, homegrown versions of Royalty.:lol:

I disagree. The American version of royalty is Hollywood stars.

And I don’t understand that either. :unsure:

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Then the controllers observed the plane going up and down by hundreds of feet, and it appeared to be moving unusually fast, the person said. The controllers, the person said, “started wondering out loud what the flight was doing.”

Two other Ethiopian flights, 613 and 629, were approaching from the east, and the controllers, sensing an emergency on Flight 302, ordered them to remain at higher altitudes. It was during that exchange with the other planes, the person said, that Captain Getachew, with panic in his voice, interrupted with his request to turn back.

Flight 302 was just three minutes into its flight, the person said, and appeared to have accelerated to even higher speeds, well beyond its safety limits.

 

From

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/14/world/boeing-737-max-ethiopian-airlines.html?emc=edit_th_190315&nl=todaysheadlines&nlid=304464310315

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've been watching that guy's videos (Petter Hörnfeldt) for some time.  If he'd been at the controls no one would have spilled a drop of their cocktail.  :mellow:

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