Time to lose the spotter?

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

24 minutes ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

So How many stages and how many shooters.  Also what if its wet, paint isn't gonna stick

5-6 stages are common and at least a couple dozen shooters.

I don't shoot when it's wet...

The W3G, FB site is not well updated-But you'll get the idea in some of the videos.

https://www.facebook.com/Western-3-Gun-278231255715688/

OLG

[LAST CHANCE]

If you notice a spotter is not doing his job as a spotter well, posse marshal or clock RO should ask for another spotter to replace them. Too many spotters are doing a lazy job and theyll never get better nor try to do their best job if they are not told otherwise. I've seen videos and shooters with several misses not get them called as well as edgers not be seen. I've seen spotters be asked to be replaced many times and have asked them to not spot myself. At any level/shoot. A well ran posse should not have this problem. 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

7 hours ago, Assassin said:

How about the spotters getting up and following the shooter and getting a better vantage point vs. sitting on their butt and watching from afar.

Spotting takes work, it's not just sitting around. Spotters need to be as focused as the shooter. 

 

Yes the spotters need to be focused, that should go without saying.  But following the shooter can be a real pain at a lot of the stages because of the stage layout (false front with windows, props, etc).  And if you try to get behind a shooter you will often not be able to see all the targets past the shooter and TO, then you have to dash as fast as the shooter to a new spot.  Plus, the spotters will have a harder time spotting BP shooters from behind the shooter.  I think finding a position that makes all targets visible is best, and if you do have to move in the middle then know where you are going to go to see the rest.  

 

Now, regarding technology.  At the last shoot I overheard someone talking about a sensor that attaches to a target and tells how many hits.  I don't know how that works, if the system is wireless or if the range needs to be "wired up", nor how much it costs or anything else, really.   It would probably be pretty expensive to do this to every target in a match.  However, technology keeps getting less expensive so who knows?  Certainly spotters would still be needed to watch for P's.

[Joe LaFives #5481]

11 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

5-6 stages are common and at least a couple dozen shooters.

I don't shoot when it's wet...

The W3G, FB site is not well updated-But you'll get the idea in some of the videos.

https://www.facebook.com/Western-3-Gun-278231255715688/

OLG

OLG - with 20 shooters you can reset the entire stage if you want between shooters -   Heck you could shoot out to 100 + yards and paint but not with 80 or 180 or 800.

[Marshal Hangtree]

I say we get rid of that pesky son-of-a-gun with that annoying beep box.

[Fordyce Beals]

55 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

 

Trust me, I know of no one that doesn't want to improve the "Scoring" of our game.

 

Phantom

I have brought this up before when the ACES and Simplified scoring programs started.  New short run manufacturing methods make this economically possible:

 

The re imagined timer does it all!  The TO points it at he shooters face as he approaches the firing line and it identifies the shooters face.  At the beep "Bang : Ding" software times the shooter, the "Ding" signature identifies which target is hit and in what order, "Simultaneous" software roots out those gunfighter issues.  The time, misses, procedural is combined with the TO issuing any MSV, SDQ,MDQ then linked to the scoring computer.  Next shooter!

 

Fordyce

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

1 minute ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

OLG - with 20 shooters you can reset the entire stage if you want between shooters -   Heck you could shoot out to 100 + yards and paint but not with 80 or 180 or 800.

The paint'n is done faster, than the brass is picked up on average.

Also-The W3G type targets(bonus hit in center)might be worth looking into, someday.

OLG

 

 

[Totes Magoats]

I've been on posse's where you are hard pressed to get 3 spotters and 1 brass picker.  Finding painters may be impossible.

 

On the flip side, I've seen groups on new paint that you can't tell 3 shots from 2.  

 

Oh, and do we get spotting scopes and golf carts to go out and paint those Cody Dixon targets.

 

Let's just ask the spotters to do a better job....

 

Totes

[Matthew Duncan]

18 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

...Is it time to let the spotters go?

 

The simple action of painting steel between shooters would go a long way towards eliminating the human error element of our game...

 

In our case we would have to shutdown three stages every time to go down range to paint.

[Lead Monger]

Let's not forget that we are the spotters. Many of us also run the timer. Does that meen we all need to do a better job or just the ones I don't agree with?

[Assassin]

1 hour ago, Lead Monger said:

Let's not forget that we are the spotters. Many of us also run the timer. Does that meen we all need to do a better job or just the ones I don't agree with?

Yes, we all need to do a better job. 

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

3 hours ago, Max Payne said:

Let's go to the honor system & let each shooter call their own performance. We'll use me as a pilot for about a year (or two) to see how we like it. I promise to be hard on myself.

Oh, I can vouch for Max. He's honest as Abe! Mwahaha! 

[Lawdog Dago Dom]

Never a spotter when you need one.

 

Could have used one to call a Procedural when I was dating the ex. Maybe a MDQ?

 

There are somethings even a fresh coat of paint can't fix.

 

[Mustang Gregg]

The spotters who can't do their job ought to have to go to RO class. 

Going downrange at our range would not work as we are renting a range with NO berms.

 

And the cost of extra paint would cut into our budget. 

Some will say that is B.S., but we only get $2.00 per shooter after the rent.

 

Mustang Gregg

Lincoln Area Regulators

[Tyrel Cody]

2 hours ago, Mustang Gregg said:

The spotters who can't do their job ought to have to go to RO class. 

Going downrange at our range would not work as we are renting a range with NO berms.

 

And the cost of extra paint would cut into our budget. 

Some will say that is B.S., but we only get $2.00 per shooter after the rent.

 

Mustang Gregg

Lincoln Area Regulators

 

I think all shooters should have RO1 regardless of spotting. That said, I don't see RO1 offered that often and RO2 is even rarer.

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

2 hours ago, Mustang Gregg said:

The spotters who can't do their job ought to have to go to RO class. 

Going downrange at our range would not work as we are renting a range with NO berms.

 

And the cost of extra paint would cut into our budget. 

Some will say that is B.S., but we only get $2.00 per shooter after the rent.

 

Mustang Gregg

Lincoln Area Regulators

What's your shooter's fee? 

OLG

 

[Mustang Gregg]

Thanks, Tyrell,

Here in NE, we are very lucky to have Freeda Bee Me and Dalton Masterson bending over backwards offering RO 1 and RO2 classes.

They are available here, but we do not hardly get anyone to come to them.

 

MG

[Mustang Gregg]

Lumpy,

We are just starting out so we are renting the Izaak Walton ranges.

Our rate is $12.00 per shooter.

They get $10.00 per shooter, we get $2.00.

Sounds low, but if we charged $15.00, I reckon the shooter numbers would drop off.

MG

[Tyrel Cody]

Just now, Mustang Gregg said:

Thanks, Tyrell,

Here in NE, we are very lucky to have Freeda Bee Me and Dalton Masterson bending over backwards offering RO 1 and RO2 classes.

They are available here, but we do not hardly get anyone to come to them.

 

MG

 

Well, to be fair, it could be that I'm just not asking enough of the right people and making the time myself to find the classes I want. I've had RO1 and plan to get a refresher at KY State. I've only seen RO2 offered once in the last few years; again it could be my fault for not asking.

 

Regardless, I still stand by my position that all shooters should take RO1; should be required within a time period of starting this game. We also need to figure out how that can be shortened so it doesn't take 3+ hours.

 

 

My dos centavos. 

[Carolina Gunslinger]

6 minutes ago, Mustang Gregg said:

Lumpy,

We are just starting out so we are renting the Izaak Walton ranges.

Our rate is $12.00 per shooter.

They get $10.00 per shooter, we get $2.00.

Sounds low, but if we charged $15.00, I reckon the shooter numbers would drop off.

MG

That's doubtful, but your petty cash situation would be greatly improved....

[Mustang Gregg]

CG:

I would like to go to $15.00, but I think that our outfit would be the only one in the state that is not $10.00.

I will do some checking.

 

MG

 

I don't want to get this thread derailed.

So I may start a new post.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Keep the spotters. More participation by folks on a stage is more fun anyway.

 

GG ~ 

[Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362]

On 3/4/2019 at 5:08 PM, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

 

 

 

If you want to see the numbers drop off start forcing shooters to take classes.What about the non SASS members  who just want to enjoy a local match?. To me this sounds like a disaster and would be another cut. 

[Carolina Gunslinger]

Why not pick one short section on the grand tome of unread knowledge...SHB...or even RO1 or 2 and read it aloud and discuss it during the shooter brief. Those things are boring anyways. Maybe folks will learn something...

[Joe LaFives #5481]

5 hours ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said:

 

 

If you want to see the numbers drop off start forcing shooters to take classes.What about the non SASS members  who just want to enjoy a local match?. To me this sounds like a disaster and would be another cut. 

I didn't mention anything about classes - I'm confused. 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

4 hours ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

Why not pick one short section on the grand tome of unread knowledge...SHB...or even RO1 or 2 and read it aloud and discuss it during the shooter brief. Those things are boring anyways. Maybe folks will learn something...

Do you have anything positive to say or is this whole game just one big joke to you??

[Carolina Gunslinger]

22 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Do you have anything positive to say or is this whole game just one big joke to you??

I thought that was a pretty good suggestion. It's practical and folks would learn something or clarity would be gained. Good time to bring up "Clarifications" that most people would never otherwise be aware of. Changing the dialogue with repeated public addresses is a good way to ensure the focus of the audience is maintained. 

Now for the Joke:

I always take myself and others very seriously when they are dressed up like Old West characters... Oh no, Dairycow Drifter and Little Miss Largeloop are upset with me...hahaha I hope those aren't real aliases...

[LostVaquero]

My contention is you can tape faster than paint.  Holes do not lie.

Paper targets cheaper than steel and paint.

 

Personally nothing really wrong with things as is.

 

 

[Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362]

2 hours ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

I didn't mention anything about classes - I'm confused. 

  Darn computer  My Bad.  

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

9 minutes ago, LostVaquero said:

My contention is you can tape faster than paint.  Holes do not lie.

Paper targets cheaper than steel and paint.

 

Personally nothing really wrong with things as is.

 

 

I disagree. I've shot W3G with cardboard and metal targets. It was faster to paint than to tape.

 

I'd like to see painting of targets where berms allow. The problem with that is, I'd rather tape than paint as I don't want to breathe the fumes or get spray on my clothes.

 

So with that conundrum in mind, I agree with your second paragraph.

 

Now, for questions about spotters.

1. I had a shooter tell me that he doesn't like slow shooters to spot for him as they incorrectly call misses. What do you think about that?
2. Also, what do you think of MDs who put all of the fast shooters on the same posse?

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

I thought that was a pretty good suggestion. It's practical and folks would learn something or clarity would be gained. Good time to bring up "Clarifications" that most people would never otherwise be aware of. Changing the dialogue with repeated public addresses is a good way to ensure the focus of the audience is maintained. 

Now for the Joke:

I always take myself and others very seriously when they are dressed up like Old West characters... Oh no, Dairycow Drifter and Little Miss Largeloop are upset with me...hahaha I hope those aren't real aliases...

Taking one's self seriously is one thing...

 

I don't think folks are upset with you...I'm not. But whether any one takes your comments seriously is another issue. 

 

Oh yeah...I know you don't care so...guess I just wasted 60 seconds of my life...dang...

 

Phantom

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

On 3/4/2019 at 4:32 PM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

5-6 stages are common and at least a couple dozen shooters.

I don't shoot when it's wet...

The W3G, FB site is not well updated-But you'll get the idea in some of the videos.

https://www.facebook.com/Western-3-Gun-278231255715688/

OLG

Thanks for the link, Lumpy. Looks like one posse, so there are no other stages being run simultaneously?

 

We have seven stages at our range with only one of them separated by a berm. In good weather we'll get 60 or more shooters at our monthlies and split them into 3-4 posses which means 3-4 stages are being used at the same time. Painting targets would mean shutting down the entire range after each shooter. Ain't no way that's going to happen at our club or any others in our region.

 

It's up to the spotters to do their job and the posse marshal/TO to make sure they do. I don't think spotting and calling have gotten worse over the 10 years I've been shooting. I do see an increase in the amount of bitching and trying to parse the rules like a lawyer. From where I sit, the bulk of it occurs on this forum as opposed to the ranges I shoot.

 

Is this a big enough problem that we need to add more rules, more expense and forced training?

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

AS-Yes, 1 posse and the targets are 'adjusted' differently for each stage.

The props can be moved around also.

OLG

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

1 minute ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

AS-Yes, 1 posse and the targets are 'adjusted' differently for each stage.

The props can be moved around also.

OLG

IIRC, when I shot W3G at Piru and Sloughhouse we used multiple stages.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

5 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

IIRC, when I shot W3G at Piru and Sloughhouse we used multiple stages.

They would do both at Piru. The stages were very close and had nice berms.

Those stages were first used by a ISPC club I belonged to.

OLG