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Creeker, SASS #43022

Time to lose the spotter?

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There are and have been innumerable threads and WTC regarding spotter calls/ errors/ opinions etc.

 

Debates about GF firing simultaneously.

Seeing misses versus hearing misses.

Matches turned by the questionable call/ missed call of a spotter.

So on and so forth.

 

So the question arises...

Is it time to let the spotters go?

 

The simple action of painting steel between shooters would go a long way towards eliminating the human error element of our game.

 

We would obviously still require a "spotter" position for making safety/ procedural calls.

 

But perhaps it's time for the targets to speak for themselves.

 

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Sorry - adding that kind of time is pretty unacceptable and for multiple stages in a bay - clearly undoable

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That'll work great for ranges without berms...

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20 minutes ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

Sorry - adding that kind of time is pretty unacceptable and for multiple stages in a bay - clearly undoable

 

+1000000000000000000000000

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So, you want to get rid of the spotters but keep the spotters. Huh?

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Howdy Creeker.

 

Hits on a freshly painted target only indicates the number of hits on that target..... it doesn't indicate

the sequence of each hit.

 

As for getting rid of spotters,  I don't think it would benefit the game.

 

Do you have a viable alternative other than freshly painted targets for each shooter?

 

..........Widder

 

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Just to look at a magnitude of time lets say it takes you 2 minutes to repaint the targets, I am sure you can argue more or less but lets pretend 2 minutes.

 

2 minutes x 6 stages for a monthly shoot x 20 shooters = 240 minutes or 4 hours extra time for the Monthly shoot.

 

Even if you halve it to 1 minute that's still 2 hours for only 20 shooters. I am guessing a big shoot like WR with 700+ will really feel it.

 

I don't think that will work for most groups.

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1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

That'll work great for ranges without berms...

Picky picky.

If you're going to use logic on me...

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Install 3 high pressure paint spray guns on each stage.  Use your "unused" spotters to paint targets from the firing line.

 

 

 

 

 

I haven't had my coffee yet.

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Would be a better idea to have everyone do the RO1 course or introduce a spotters course for those that don’t want to do RO1 & 2

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Quote

Would be a better idea to have everyone do the RO1 course or introduce a spotters course for those that don’t want to do RO1 & 2

El Hombre ... Who Thinks Out of the Box :o:mellow:

Thumbs Up, Mate and a Big Round of Cheers

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Education is the key. Whether by RO courses or Education at the local matches. Teach them on the fly. If they make a mistake, educate them don't berate them.

 

That's why we have 3 spotters. Majority rules. If they have to question themselves on a call, benefit of doubt goes to the shooter.

 

Or maybe we do like Hockey and have technology that allow us to track each bullet?????? :ph34r:

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Bad calls happen......you just hope they balance out. It won't work at ALL for a range that has a common firing line......unless you call a cease fire and/ or wait for all the posse's to paint at once. You don't own a paint store by chance...…..lol

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Time is an issue. I believe there is a much more important issue- involvement in the putting on of the sport. As people shoot then take up a baton to spot they begin to understand how much is involved in making a match happen. The cameradary,  any sharing of stories and knowledge that happens around the firing line is invaluable. We often learn by watching others make mistakes, not just in making our own. Also this lessens the opportunity for folks to develop the "I paid to shoot, not to work" attitude. I dont want this aspect of the game to change. 

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8 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

There are and have been innumerable threads and WTC regarding spotter calls/ errors/ opinions etc.

 

Debates about GF firing simultaneously.

Seeing misses versus hearing misses.

Matches turned by the questionable call/ missed call of a spotter.

So on and so forth.

 

So the question arises...

Is it time to let the spotters go?

 

The simple action of painting steel between shooters would go a long way towards eliminating the human error element of our game.

 

We would obviously still require a "spotter" position for making safety/ procedural calls.

 

But perhaps it's time for the targets to speak for themselves.

 

NO!

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We must have some Geek that can develop, for profit, an electronic sensor that attaches to the back of targets to register hits 

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4 minutes ago, Wyatt said:

We must have some Geek that can develop, for profit, an electronic sensor that attaches to the back of targets to register hits 

 

If we can't afford to actually give away the Cadillacs to the winners as promised then we can't afford target sensors...

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1 hour ago, Noz said:

Install 3 high pressure paint spray guns on each stage.  Use your "unused" spotters to paint targets from the firing line.

 

 

 

 

 

I haven't had my coffee yet.

Lets install remote controlled high pressure paint spray cans by the targets. I'd gladly take a miss in exchange for watching what happens when I put a round into one of them :lol:

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8 hours ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

Sorry - adding that kind of time is pretty unacceptable and for multiple stages in a bay - clearly undoable

We do it in W3G all the time. 2 painters,(you only paint the bullet 'splat')and the targets are done before the brass is picked up.

It would be doable in SASS also-

OLG

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Mmmmm....no.  I'd much rather work with our spotters to do a better job than repaint targets.  

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1 minute ago, Black Hills Barb said:

Mmmmm....no.  I'd much rather work with our spotters to do a better job than repaint targets.  

Yup, me too.. Most of the clubs I shoot at have shared firing lines. Would have to shut down multiple posses just to repaint.

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As part of the pre-match Safety Meeting, remind those that plan on spotting of the basic skill sets that are required to make a good spotter.  Would take less time than painting targets.

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1.  What if a group of shooters are allergic to paint.   The spray will kill em before the 2nd stage of the day.

 

2.  Have any of you ever laid a spray can of paint on the ground next to a target?   When the bullet hits

the target and the lead spatters, it can puncture the can and ..... PFFFFFFF!

 

3.  Do the painters have to be union painters?

 

4.  Do they get a Miss or a 'P' when the spray misses the target?

 

5.  AND..... can a GF spray 2 target at the same time without penalty?

 

..........Widder

 

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It worked well with Western 3-Gun and it works well with Action Steel (a sport shot on steel like CAS but with modern guns).  Repainting with spray cans (bullet marks only) with a couple of people takes little more time than resetting shotgun targets, and not as much time as scoring and pasting like in IDPA or UPSA.

 

Painting is not foolproof though.  There are multiple hits in the same “ding”, edgers and light loads that don’t leave a good mark.  It might be worth trying out on a local level and see what problems (or not) come up.

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16 minutes ago, Buckaroo Bubba said:

Yup, me too.. Most of the clubs I shoot at have shared firing lines. Would have to shut down multiple posses just to repaint.

Same at three clubs I shoot at.

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When I'm TO'ing and have a spotter miss an obvious call, I usually switch them out. Give them a chance to rest their eyes. Of course it doesn't help when I'm shooting!

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18 minutes ago, Buckaroo Bubba said:

Yup, me too.. Most of the clubs I shoot at have shared firing lines. Would have to shut down multiple posses just to repaint.

Very valid point.

OLG

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5 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

When I'm TO'ing and have a spotter miss an obvious call, I usually switch them out. Give them a chance to rest their eyes. Of course it doesn't help when I'm shooting!

We close our eyes when you shoot anyway :P

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Well could do as we do for 3 gun.  All paper, the holes do not like.  Taping faster than painting but it still eats up ablotnof time.

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And some clubs have $$$ issues that prevent them from buying new and Much Needed steel.

Taking that money to buy paint would be a LOW priority just to fix a spotter problem.

 

On the other side of the coin,  who is to say that it is a spotter problem.  Just because someone

disagrees with a call doesn't make it a reality.

Personally speaking, I really don't want to paint steel plates.    And whatjagonnado when a shooter

puts 2 shots on the same spot?

You know it will happen more often than we realize.

 

JEDI Creeker is sitting back, sipping his morning cup of Jo, and enjoying all of our input.

Matter of fact, I'm kinda enjoying it also..... :lol:

 

..........Widder

 

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362
2 hours ago, El Hombre said:

Would be a better idea to have everyone do the RO1 course or introduce a spotters course for those that don’t want to do RO1 & 2

So  force people to comply ;) :FlagAm:

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10 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

When I'm TO'ing and have a spotter miss an obvious call, I usually switch them out. Give them a chance to rest their eyes. Of course it doesn't help when I'm shooting!

 

5 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

We close our eyes when you shoot anyway :P

 

Tyrel, 

from what I been hearing,  you only have to close em for a few seconds and then its over.

Matter of fact, I heard if you 'blink', you might miss his rifle run..... :o

 

..........Widder

 

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2 hours ago, El Hombre said:

Would be a better idea to have everyone do the RO1 course or introduce a spotters course for those that don’t want to do RO1 & 2

You can know every dang rule in the book like the back of your hand and still be a poor spotter.

 

No "spotter's course" is going to impact the quality of spotting.

 

Phantom

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