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Trigger Mike

chevy 2500 questions also gas verses diesel

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I am working toward farming.  I already do on a very light scale but just fenced in a few acres for livestock.  my plan is goats then a few cows, likely a mama and 2 calves and sell the calves and get 2 more until ready and over and over again.  I currently own a 1500 Silverado and it can pull my trailer with my smaller tractor n it and I may need to haul my 5 series John Deere tractor on occasions.  service calls are $150 an hour starting when they leave the john Deere lot.  me taking it to them is cheaper.  since the 1500 also has a smaller bed but a 2500 does not I thought of getting the 2500.  I prefer gas because sometimes diesel is hard to find, especially after storms and such.  The interstate near me has very few gas stations for miles upon miles and not all have diesel.  The dealership says gas won't haul cows and tractors and says diesel holds resale better.  Is a 2500 needed?  Is a 6.6 gas just as good as 6.6 diesel?  is the Ford version better?

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TM 

 IMO , a 3/4 ton is lots better at STOPPING things than a 1/2 ton , you have to have enough power to pull , but stopping it is a must 

 

 gas is cheaper to maintain , on average , gas does not have the torque of diesel , in long hard pulls diesel is better 

 

  diesels do NOT do well for short stop and go trips , IMO , 

 

 for limited pulling , a gas is fine , if used within specs ,  I have done lots of trips with gassers , 

 

 it boils down to overall usage of the rig , as to what to go to 

 

 Chickasaw 

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Ok. Since the auction barns are 10 miles to 50 miles a gas would be fine since those are short hauls? The john deere dealer is 10 miles through town so it is a short haul. Unless I move far away I don't envision hauling a long distance. 

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The 6 liter is the Commercial version with more power down low .... than the 6.2 Chevy gasser ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Comparing the two is like apples and oranges. IMHO

It depends if you want to just get by or not. How much are you going to drive it for the farm use vs commuting empty? Commuting in a HD Diesel is not cost effective. I only use my Diesel for working.

As for fuel, don't you have a plan for on site fuel storage for tractors and such?

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If you do not need a diesel I would not buy a diesel. The “greenies” are looking for and making headway on ways to make using diesel vehicles so cumbersome that you cannot use it...or don’t want to.

Contrary to popular belief you can’t just switch to vegettable oil or if the truck require ultra low sulphuric diesel you can’t consistently use #2 Diesel without adding extra maintenance. Maintenance costs are higher but to be fair the intervals for major maintenance are longer than gas, in many cases.

 

What Chickasaw Bill said is very true.

 

Also, you should never exceed 3/4 of the so-called “towing capabilities” of your truck. It may say it can handle 10,000 pounds but I wouldn’t exceed 7500. Unless you like changing engines and transmissions at the normal half life of the same units that do not tow heavy loads.

 

Lits of people live diesels. I don’t. My opinion and $3 will get you a 16oz black coffee at Starbucks 

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Diesel trucks typically are for those that travel lots of miles in a short period of time, 30K + miles per year. If you are only using the truck occasionally buy the gas rig.

The 3/4 ton trucks are geared lower, and are heavier duty. Two or three cows or a small tractor isn't a heavy load. 

 

What I've seen lately is people that think they need a diesel just to cruise around in order to look stylish, and they never pull anything. 

 

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Opinions are like arses.  Everybody has one and they are worth what you pay for them.

I had a half ton Chevy to plow snow and pull a 20 foot, enclosed trailer with a 3100 pound race car in it along with miscellaneous tools.  Granted it was about 10 years old but it struggled to pull the trailer.  It kept getting a vapor lock.  Traded it for a 3/4 ton Chevy diesel with a plow.  Got a bigger trailer to haul more tools along with the car.  Pulled like a champ.  Bought a second 3/4 ton to pull the fifth wheel.  I enjoy driving that all over, loaded or not.

Have friend that had a one ton for pulling his gooseneck horse trailer.  Had it for almost 20 years.  He finally traded it in for a 3/4 ton diesel and is glad that he did.  Gets better fuel economy empty and pulling and pulling is much easier.  A co-worker bought a one ton gas and gets around 12 MPG empty, 8-9 pulling a small trailer with a 2800 pound race car on an open, tandem axle trailer.

With both of my trucks I get 18-20 MPG empty.  Pulling the fifth wheel I was getting around 12 (36' footer).  Diesel fuel costs more, maintenance costs more but they pull like no body's business.  I do my routine maintenance and I have not, knock on wood, had a major problem.  Oil changes, brake pad changes and most recently I had to do rotors, calipers and brake lines on the older of the two, the plow truck.

Diesels have come a long way.  They cost more than a gas truck to purchase but if you can find a good used one, take it for a spin and see if you like it.  Just go in knowing that it is going to be different.

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15 minutes ago, Finagler 6853 Life said:

 

Opinions are like arses. 

 

Like you said...:P:D

 

EDIT: Sorry Finagler. I meant to put a smiley at the end of this.:wacko:

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The current 6 .0 that Chevy and GMC puts in their 2500 series trucks has more torque and HP than a 1984 454 had in their 1 ton crew cab dually. The towing capacity of the 2500 series is mostly determined by the rear axel gear ratio.

 

For your needs you will be much better served with the gas engine than you will be with the diesel. 

 

The diesel makes the front end very heavy so it will be practicaly useless in the mud. The same truck with a gasoline engine will run circles around it off road.  My boss farms and he has two 3/4 ton truck. The diesel is for highway towing of 40 foot trailers loaded with cattle, large round bales, 150+ hp tractors and other large loads. The gas engined truck is for all the off road hauling done on the farm and short trips to town.

   

My 2016 2500 with a 6.0 gets 14 mpg city and 17 hwy. The diesel will not do any better and will likely be worse. You will pay a significant premium for the diesel engine. You will not be recouple this money in fuel savings given that diesel costs significantly more that regular unleaded unless you are full time towing and even then it will take in excess of 100,000 miles.

An occasional long trip does not warrant the extra cost of the diesel engine. Even at max towing capacity the occasional 100 mile trip will not be a problem for a gas engine.  

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5 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

The current 6 .0 that Chevy and GMC puts in their 2500 series trucks has more torque and HP than a 1984 454 had in their 1 ton crew cab dually. The towing capacity of the 2500 series is mostly determined by the rear axel gear ratio.

 

For your needs you will be much better served with the gas engine than you will be with the diesel. 

 

The diesel makes the front end very heavy so it will be practicaly useless in the mud. The same truck with a gasoline engine will run circles around it off road.  My boss farms and he has two 3/4 ton truck. The diesel is for highway towing of 40 foot trailers loaded with cattle, large round bales, 150+ hp tractors and other large loads. The gas engined truck is for all the off road hauling done on the farm and short trips to town.

   

My 2016 2500 with a 6.0 gets 14 mpg city and 17 hwy. The diesel will not do any better and will likely be worse. You will pay a significant premium for the diesel engine. You will not be recouple this money in fuel savings given that diesel costs significantly more that regular unleaded unless you are full time towing and even then it will take in excess of 100,000 miles.

An occasional long trip does not warrant the extra cost of the diesel engine. Even at max towing capacity the occasional 100 mile trip will not be a problem for a gas engine.  

 

 

What he said.

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4 minutes ago, Finagler 6853 Life said:

 

 

What he said.

My apologies Finagler. I edited my post above. I meant to put some smileys after my post. I fixed that. 

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Trigger Mike,

Have you looked at the Dodge trucks? I prefer Chevy’s and Fords but I just heard an ad that Dodge offers a “lifetime power train warranty”. I am sure it’s an additional cost, but something to consider.

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Another consideration is new or used - if you are looking at a new diesel, you will have to contend with both the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) and the Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) systems. All three US manufacturers have had "issues" with DEF systems,  including people using out-of-date fluid. DPF's don't really take well to extended idling/short trips, which leads to the computer running regenerations to burn off the particulates, or requiring a forced regen, meaning a trip to the dealer in most cases.

 

Don't take all this the wrong way - I'm happy with my Chevy diesel, a 2009, which doesn't use DEF. It's used to haul stuff and tow the 5th wheel - I have a Chevy van with gasser for my daily driver and CAS trips where I'm not camping.

 

From your description of intended use, I'd recommend going with the gas engine - cheaper initially, less maintenance.

 

CS

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Unless you are locked into a Chevy, look at a 3/4 ton Ford with the v-10.

When I bought mine they had more torq than the diesels.

Don't know my gear ratio but I get almost 17 mpg on the road. Never checked it pulling a trailer. 

Did a $ to $ comparison with a buddy in a new Chevy diesel a few years ago. A 600 mile trip cost me about $5 more in fuel.

Haven't had any trouble pulling anything I have hooked to.

 

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Unless you tow 20K plus miles a yr. Stay with gas.

Yes on 3/4 or even 1 ton-stopping the trailer is your life.

I would also suggest you look at 4WD.

OLG

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I like the answers. Thank you so much.  I insist on 4x4 anyway since I live on a dirt road at the top of a red clay hill. Babies have rougher skin than wet red clay. I once owned a dodge ram that had transmission problems at 4k miles that never got fixed and when I traded it realized one side was a different shade black than the other even though I bought it new. Never bought one since.  I will look at the Ford. 

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8 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

My apologies Finagler. I edited my post above. I meant to put some smileys after my post. I fixed that. 

 

 

No harm, no fowl.  I figured there to be some feathers in there.  :lol:

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The Ford V-10 Blows Spark-plugs out of the head , our towns 1 ton has blown plugs out twice in the past year ... It has only 132,000 Km. on it (about 78,000 Miles )

Each time it was in the shop for a week and the bill was over 3,000 dollars ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

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On Friday, March 01, 2019 at 10:09 AM, Ringer said:

Unless you are locked into a Chevy, look at a 3/4 ton Ford with the v-10.

When I bought mine they had more torq than the diesels.

Don't know my gear ratio but I get almost 17 mpg on the road. Never checked it pulling a trailer. 

Did a $ to $ comparison with a buddy in a new Chevy diesel a few years ago. A 600 mile trip cost me about $5 more in fuel.

Haven't had any trouble pulling anything I have hooked to.

 

3/4 ton, it is a matter of safety when slowing and turning.  A gasser will do well for what you need.  The Triton V10 6.8L is worth a look.  Low end torque delivery was better than the Chevy V8 8.1L, still not a modern turbo diesel Powerstroke.  Served well as a farm, towing, plow truck.  Yes, the Triton series is known to have cam phaser and spark plug issues.  It helps if you are patient, not rammy, when changing spark plugs.  The Ford and the Chevy gasser can pull exhaust studs, its a dissimilar metal issue.  

 

Never owned a Duramax.  On road trips, the Powerstroke never had a problem walking away from one.  The Duramax did get a couple extra mpg.  

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I have over 250,000 miles on my v-10 and have had none of the spark plug or cam phaser issues. 

Guess I'm just lucky?

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Stay away from a Ford diesel....

 

I was born with a blue oval stamped on my butt. And Ford  has not produced a good diesel since the 7.3 powerstroke which was actually an International motor. 6.0 and 6.4 were junk.

 

The current 6.7 powerstroke has inverted heads which sucks air from where the headers on a V8 should be and blows it to the turbo mounted where the intake manifold should be. Heat is the number 1 enemy of an engine. Henry Ford could have told them it was a bad idea to flip the heads. The design blows the heat to the center of the V8. Its retarded.

 

Cummins is the best. I own a 2013 Dodge 3500. But the body Unfortunately is a Dodge. Lots of non engine stuff has gone wrong. Two 3000 dollar computers, door latch broke, door locks stopped working, etc.

 

My wife owns a Chevy 2500 duramax with allison. Its a nice pickup. Power is less than cummins but body is nice and I like her allison much better than the Dodges Aisin transmission. Brake retarder works much better as well.

 

I own a trucking company and I prefer 379 extended hood Peterbilt's with Cat 550 and eaton 18 speeds to any pickup I have ever driven. They ride like cadillacs and I can pull a 85,000 lbs excavator with no problem! Lol! I paid 50k for each of them and they both have about one and a half million miles on them.

 

Pickups seem like a waste of money by comparison. Especially 90k new ones....

 

If I was buying used? I would probably look at a bowtie with duramax/allison combo. They tend to hold up.

 

Im a trucker, so fer pullin I do not like gas engines. I have built one big block Ford engine in my life for pulling. I pulled my 6 horse horse trailer with it. Figured for the price of a new diesel pickup I could buy alot of gasoline fer it.

 

It got like 5 miles to the gallon. And overheated all the time. 4 core radiator could not keep up. It almost killed me pulling a step grade in central Idaho with 6 horses and mules. It got so hot it vapor locked the fuel line to the carb and died and when I started rolling backwards and stepped on the brakes? 

 

I had none! It had boiled the brake fluid in the brake reservoir. Luckily I was able to jack knife the trailer into the bank with no power steering. With the other side of the road being about a 500 foot drop off.

 

I bought a 99 ford f350 with the 7.3 after that event!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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The difference between gas and diesel is where each engine gets its work done and it’s the main reason a gas engine will never outlast a diesel engine.  A gas engine when pulling makes it’s power in the upper RPM ranges where the transmission will always hunt for a gear.  A diesel is down low, most of the time at, around, or even below 2000 RPM.  In most cases, you can leave the transmission in “over drive”.  I’ve had a gas truck and now a diesel.  In areas my gas truck would down shift to go a small grade, my diesel just goes up it without shifting.  The only thing I notice is the turbo climbs.  I’ve passed vehicles going from say 50 to 70, just pushed a little more on the throttle and away I went without a downshift.  It’s actually scared me a time or two coming on an interstate.  My truck will come down one gear and before I know it, it’s passing through 80 MPH and I’m still on the on ramp.  The RPM’s?  Never more than 2500-2700.  I have yet to “floor” the go pedal.  Never had too.  

 

As to having a diesel in 4X4?  In NE Texas, you’ll have trouble finding a 4X2 truck.  They all seem to be 4X4 in gas but mostly in diesel.  Yes, the diesel trucks are heavier.  It is a BIG CHUCK OF IRON in the front.  I wouldn’t go trail riding or mud bogging in one, but for normal chores, the ranchers around me don’t seem to have any problems.

 

As to which one to get?  I’ll leave that one up to you.  They all have pro’s and con’s.  They all cost a small mint, both gas or diesel, new or used.  It’s up to you to decide which one you can live with.

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On 3/1/2019 at 10:04 AM, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Trigger Mike,

Have you looked at the Dodge trucks? I prefer Chevy’s and Fords but I just heard an ad that Dodge offers a “lifetime power train warranty”. I am sure it’s an additional cost, but something to consider.

As much as i like older Dodge vehicles, be careful of the wording on their warranty offers.  I just spent $2200 on a Charger when they replaced an engine under the 100,000 mile drive train warranty, because the parts they said were not drive train components needed replaced.  Such as injectors and radiator/heater hoses, and power control modules.  

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That sounds like dodge.  My dodge transmission went out at 4k miles.  Well inside all warrantys  yet it didn't get fixed.  

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Well I really like my 03 Silverado 2500 HD Duramax. It gets  5 mpg better fuel economy than my V8 Dakota did empty and 7-9 better pulling my little 12' enclosed trailer. It doesn't have to downshift twice going up the hills like the Dodge did and pulls my Bobcat around on my car hauler trailer with ease. Replacing injectors REALLY sucks though.

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Except for large stationary engines compression ignition turbocharged (diesel) engines are more efficient than turbocharged spark ignited (gas) engines.  A turbocharged engine is more efficient than a naturally aspirated or supercharged engine.  Automobile mfg's have significantly improved the Brake Specific Fuel Consumption of gasoline engines by modifying the Otto Cycle.  Most are using a Miller Cycle which is closing the intake valves early.  Most are also using direct cylinder injection.  These in addition to turbocharging improve full load efficiency to near that of turbo diesels.  Where the diesel blows the doors off a gas engine is part load fuel economy.  For those who have experience with a 1999 model year or newer diesel vehicle have you noticed that a diesel never warms up if idled.  A gas engine will reach operating temp. in a few minutes idling.  Gas engines are good water heaters, diesels are not.  As fare as performance compare the performance of two German automobile mfg's, BMW & Mercedes that offer diesel & gas options in the same model.  The diesel versions accelerate faster & have higher top speeds.  The diesel engines are only heavier because of the SCR catalyst. DPF & DFP regeneration system.  Dodge, Ford & GM shouldn't be having reliability problems with their diesel's emissions control systems; since, cooled EGR & DPF's have been in use since engine model years 2007 & 2010 for SCR's.  The same goes for heavy duty on-highway. also there are millions of hours experience in off-highway equipment.  When SCR was the only NOX emissions reduction technology that can meet the government mandated limit mfg's had the option of improving fuel economy or minimize DEF consumption.  Cooled EGR is an in cylinder NOX reduction technology that sacrifices fuel economy & peak HP.  As someone previously stated you're diesel will frequently operated in DPF regeneration mode.  Regeneration is continuous when the exhaust temp. is above a temperature determined by the DPF catalyst washcoat or if a DOC catalyst is located before the DPF.  Typically this is above 30% of the engine's rating at the operating RPM.

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On 3/2/2019 at 8:31 PM, Ringer said:

I have over 250,000 miles on my v-10 and have had none of the spark plug or cam phaser issues. 

Guess I'm just lucky?

 

My f150 just spit a plug.

$500 fix.

Old school mechanic.

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24 minutes ago, Waimea said:

 

My f150 just spit a plug.

$500 fix.

Old school mechanic.

Sorry to hear that.

I didn't realize yours was a v-10 but I understand it was a problem with the triton series of engines.

When I got mine a mechanic friend told me to be sure and use anti-seize and a torque wrench on the spark plugs. 

He also said to be religious with the oil changes and use the weight recommended by Ford. 5-20 seemed awfully light but I have stuck with it.

Maybe these things helped with my being lucky?

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On 3/2/2019 at 6:31 PM, Ringer said:

I have over 250,000 miles on my v-10 and have had none of the spark plug or cam phaser issues. 

Guess I'm just lucky?

My 2000 V-10 has given me no problems either.

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1 hour ago, Ringer said:

Sorry to hear that.

I didn't realize yours was a v-10 but I understand it was a problem with the triton series of engines.

When I got mine a mechanic friend told me to be sure and use anti-seize and a torque wrench on the spark plugs. 

He also said to be religious with the oil changes and use the weight recommended by Ford. 5-20 seemed awfully light but I have stuck with it.

Maybe these things helped with my being lucky?

I wish it was a v10.

V8 5.4 Triton 

 

At first I was upset about it but $500 as opposed to $3000!

All of a sudden I am ok.

Anyhow, it doesn't owe me anything.

I've driven it everywhere hauling lead.

230,000 miles now.

 

Thinking of getting an F-250 and was floundering about gas or diesel also.

Then I found this thread.

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On 3/2/2019 at 8:31 PM, Ringer said:

I have over 250,000 miles on my v-10 and have had none of the spark plug or cam phaser issues. 

Guess I'm just lucky?

 

My '06 V10 has 165k - runs like a top.

 

It also has 4:30 gearing so it can tow very well.....gas mileage? what's that :D

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Before I got mine I was looking at diesel. When my friends turbos went down on his new duramax I changed my mind. Had it not been under warranty the repair cost would have been $8000.

At the time a new crate v-10 was$4000.

Made my mind up!

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11 minutes ago, Gunner Gatlin, SASS # 10274 said:

 

My '06 V10 has 165k - runs like a top.

 

It also has 4:30 gearing so it can tow very well.....gas mileage? what's that :D

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

4:30-Not 4:10?

OLG

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Now your gonna make me go see what mine is.  Lol

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