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Snakebite

WR, The Match

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I've attended many WR, and IMO the match at this event was certainly one of the best. Target distances were excellent, and though the scenarios were not difficult, target placements provided a challenge. The WR organization is an absolute awesome machine. The amount of work accomplished is breathtaking. Motivating so many people to get so involved is a tribute to those doing the motivating.  Even with the uncanny weather, the match was great. KUDOS to everyone involved.

 

Snakebite

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I certainly hope to make this match in the near future. 

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Someday!

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Stage designs and target placement was very good and quite fun.  Big improvements in several areas this year.  Hard to fully appreciate with the weather but we certainly noticed.  Biggest bummer was not getting to shoot them in slightly better conditions. 

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Great shoot.

 

It is probably time for them to figure out how to put some wooden walkways down on Stage 6 in case it does rain/sleet/hail/snow and all that nice dirt/clay turns into mud.  It wasn't bad for my posse by the time I shot it late Saturday, but most of the posses had a heck of a mess to deal with.

 

The walkways sure have made a positive difference on the other stages.

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32 minutes ago, Dead_Head said:

 

 

It is probably time for them to figure out how to put some wooden walkways down on Stage 6 in case it does rain/sleet/hail/snow and all that nice dirt/clay turns into mud.  It wasn't bad for my posse by the time I shot it late Saturday, but most of the posses had a heck of a mess to deal with.

 

The walkways sure have made a positive difference on the other stages.

I'm agin that.   

 

I understand about tryin to level the playing field, and that can happen on most stages, but some ......well....it is about just dealing with it and doin the best one can do safely.

 

Kind of a source of pride when ya finish one like that.  A memory that stays for awhile longer than the others.  :D

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So, you are okay to have walkways to get you out of the mud on 11 stages, but not on the 12th stage (Stage 6)? 

 

I don't agree, but it will be up to the Winter Range management anyway.

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Age old issue where one posse group (or more), has to shoot the mud stages during the rain while others got to shoot them when it was dry... And got to shoot the non-muddy stages during the rain.

 

Not a good measure of who was best. Yes, there will always be better weather posses until we can control the weather. But allow folks to be able to shoot without 20 pounds of mud on their boots would be a great improvement. To deny this is silly!!

 

Phantom

Edited by Phantom, SASS #54973
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After the 2006 "100 year" rain and flood on Fri. night and Sat., and the Sat. stages had to be cancelled in the scoring, and some shooters were really upset,  some folks suggested moving Winter Range to early Nov. when the weather has always been great.  Some folks said that Nov. is not "winter" and I said "you folks have never lived in the Midwest part of the USA".  I know that reserving time at Ben Avery is usually a 3 year in advance situation, but if the board would think about it, maybe WR could be moved to a better time of the year in the future.  There would also be almost a 5 month break between WR and EOT  for folks to save up for both events.  Just my thoughts.  

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1 hour ago, Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 said:

After the 2006 "100 year" rain and flood on Fri. night and Sat., and the Sat. stages had to be cancelled in the scoring, and some shooters were really upset,  some folks suggested moving Winter Range to early Nov. when the weather has always been great.  Some folks said that Nov. is not "winter" and I said "you folks have never lived in the Midwest part of the USA".  I know that reserving time at Ben Avery is usually a 3 year in advance situation, but if the board would think about it, maybe WR could be moved to a better time of the year in the future.  There would also be almost a 5 month break between WR and EOT  for folks to save up for both events.  Just my thoughts.  

But than the National Championship would be preceded by the World Championship...

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47 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

But than the National Championship would be preceded by the World Championship...

Currently, the National Championship comes before all the Regional Championships...

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1 hour ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

Currently, the National Championship comes before all the Regional Championships...

True ... And State matches can come after Regionals.

 

Having only one National and one World Championship makes planning a bit simpler.

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1 hour ago, Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 said:

After the 2006 "100 year" rain and flood on Fri. night and Sat., and the Sat. stages had to be cancelled in the scoring, and some shooters were really upset,  some folks suggested moving Winter Range to early Nov. when the weather has always been great.  Some folks said that Nov. is not "winter" and I said "you folks have never lived in the Midwest part of the USA".  I know that reserving time at Ben Avery is usually a 3 year in advance situation, but if the board would think about it, maybe WR could be moved to a better time of the year in the future.  There would also be almost a 5 month break between WR and EOT  for folks to save up for both events.  Just my thoughts.  

that's not quite right,,, I shot all 12 stages that year, only one wave didn't get to shoot the middle stages,,,   and then because a TO slipped and fell

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2 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

True ... And State matches can come after Regionals.

 

Having only one National and one World Championship makes planning a bit simpler.

It's 5 o'clock somewhere. :) Unfortunately, this is a problem with no possible solution. Not even going to start with the political differences between clubs, shooting events, and different regions of the country. 

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1 hour ago, Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 said:

that's not quite right,,, I shot all 12 stages that year, only one wave didn't get to shoot the middle stages,,,   and then because a TO slipped and fell

I was part of China Camp's posse. We were shooting late Saturday on Stages 1-4. Did half of them and the called it during our third stage. I was so deep in mud that Running Bare shoulders were barely above the shelf where her rifle was staged.

 

Wylee and I stopped at a hose and rinsed our pant legs off... And it was 43 degrees!!

 

It was wonderful:blink:

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Folks, just a reminder to please, please, please fill out the email survey that will be sent to all WR competitors. Most all of the recent changes to WR have started as a result of these surveys. Every WR Board member reads every survey at a very long meeting, it matters. BTW, we set a record for precipitation in October, the range was a muddy mess in November too!

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10 hours ago, Rattlesnake Slim said:

Folks, just a reminder to please, please, please fill out the email survey that will be sent to all WR competitors. Most all of the recent changes to WR have started as a result of these surveys. Every WR Board member reads every survey at a very long meeting, it matters. BTW, we set a record for precipitation in October, the range was a muddy mess in November too!

Glad to see you posting that Slim & thanks for doing so. Hopefully next year part of WR will be into March and  better weather. Waaa, Haw.

 

Jackrabbit Joe #414

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I feel that it was one of the best designed 12 stage matches that i have attended. Rain be damned, 

 pay attention to shooting not whining and it has a lot less 

negative effect on your performance.

Leveling the playing field is a myth.  The top shooters will always be the top shooters.  The only way to level the playing field is to practice.

Johnny Meadows

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1 hour ago, Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L said:

I feel that it was one of the best designed 12 stage matches that i have attended. Rain be damned, 

 pay attention to shooting not whining and it has a lot less 

negative effect on your performance.

Leveling the playing field is a myth.  The top shooters will always be the top shooters.  The only way to level the playing field is to practice.

Johnny Meadows

I don't understand Johnny, are you saying that things such eliminating mud holes is a bad thing??

 

Trying to make a competition consistent is a good thing... Isn't it???

 

Phantom

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How did the weather play out?  Looked like it was nasty early on, but I didn't keep checking the weather reports.  Was this a situation where half of it was in nasty weather, and half in good weather? 

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There were more shooters slipping on the boardwalks than in the mud.

Leave it alone.

What's next? Boardwalks to the stage from the loading table, from the stage to the unloading table (would have been nice on the Saloon stage :D ).

Leave it alone.

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1 hour ago, Flying W Ramrod said:

There were more shooters slipping on the boardwalks than in the mud.

Leave it alone.

What's next? Boardwalks to the stage from the loading table, from the stage to the unloading table (would have been nice on the Saloon stage :D ).

Leave it alone.

I see... Don't look for solutions to make things better. Got it.

 

Folks fell at this match and in others. Guns fell out of holsters... And this is not a good reason to try and make things better???

 

What????

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All:  We have a contract that specifies when we can hold Winter Range.  That isn't going to change.   We do agree that Stage Six could use some help.  I'm not sure Boardwalks are the answer but everything is on the table.   As a group, we like to have down range movement when possible.  This is something that adds to the "realism" and to the fun however doing so safely can be a challenge.  If you have ideas - please feel free to share,  All will be considered BUT please do not take offense if ultimately we don't use your idea.  There may be circumstances that prevent it.   Stay Frosty :)

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3 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I don't understand Johnny, are you saying that things such eliminating mud holes is a bad thing??

 

Trying to make a competition consistent is a good thing... Isn't it???

 

Phantom

No, I'm saying that regardless of the shooting conditions, which we have no control over, we make the best of it.

Shooters are not created equal, so changes in the game do little to effect the outcome.

Good shooters are good shooters no matter what conditions. 

J.M.

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2 minutes ago, Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L said:

No, I'm saying that regardless of the shooting conditions, which we have no control over, we make the best of it.

Shooters are not created equal, so changes in the game do little to effect the outcome.

Good shooters are good shooters no matter what conditions. 

J.M.

Well I agree in general. But if improvement to a range...a stage...etc, etc can add to more consistency between waves/posses, shouldn't that be considered?

 

Phantom

Edited by Phantom, SASS #54973
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On 2/26/2019 at 9:13 AM, Snakebite said:

 

I've attended many WR, and IMO the match at this event was certainly one of the best. Target distances were excellent, and though the scenarios were not difficult, target placements provided a challenge. The WR organization is an absolute awesome machine. The amount of work accomplished is breathtaking. Motivating so many people to get so involved is a tribute to those doing the motivating.  Even with the uncanny weather, the match was great. KUDOS to everyone involved.

 

Snakebite

Agree Snakebite.

Sadly, with the need to get dry and out of mud/rain, I missed seeing so many folks I would like to have seen.   Did not even realize you and Lefty E. were there until name called in awards.  Another time, my friend.

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17 hours ago, Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 said:

that's not quite right,,, I shot all 12 stages that year, only one wave didn't get to shoot the middle stages,,,   and then because a TO slipped and fell

Yes sir..I was your PM for that fantastic posse.  Cameras were on us when we shot in the middle with the sunny, blue sky.  Then the rain came that evening...and man did it rain.  We shot in mud and water from then on and had our sunny sky stages thrown out.  Right or wrong, it happened...and many on posse still made "upper crust" of their category.  A match to remember, as was this one, weather wise.  Match gets better, but "mother nature" can throw out some misery and despair that even a great group of planners and officials can not fix.

 

As to boardwalks, I have a like/dislike about them.  I like being off mud and ankle deep water, but they can be slippery at times from rain, and as my posse discovered at 8 AM Saturday morning, ICY (S 12).  Other than the ice first thing Saturday morning, I felt the board material perhaps not as rain slick as in past, maybe just the timing of our particular shooting.  One must certainly be cautious or  "just throw out the stops" and go for it....I prefer a bit of caution.

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On 2/26/2019 at 9:13 AM, Snakebite said:

 

I've attended many WR, and IMO the match at this event was certainly one of the best. Target distances were excellent, and though the scenarios were not difficult, target placements provided a challenge. The WR organization is an absolute awesome machine. The amount of work accomplished is breathtaking. Motivating so many people to get so involved is a tribute to those doing the motivating.  Even with the uncanny weather, the match was great. KUDOS to everyone involved.

 

Snakebite

Snakebite, 

 

I am sorry.......... I derailed most of your subject line and thread into a mud slinging personal thread.  :D

 

I agree with what you stated.  Twas a great match!  What this group of people/shooters did was wonderful and you had to be there to appreciate one's own accomplishments and those that cheered you on.  Simply wonderful.

 

 

 

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I have to disagree completely with above comments about the boardwalks being a problem.  Any slipping on the boardwalks, while always a potential, was nothing in comparison to the slipping and sinking and inability to even walk in the mud itself.  The boardwalks were the only reason many of the shooters got through the match at all.  Stage 6 was just plain treacherous.  I don't know whether boardwalk is the fix for that one or not.  Lots of gravel would be the ultimate fix. :)

 

For those who weren't there, to get an idea of the weather... footwear rules were thrown out for all categories the entire match and rubber boots with tread were specifically allowed also.

 

The following are some ideas for the future to make bad weather more bearable with a minimum of work:

 

On stages 1-4 the loading/unloading tables have sun shades but the rain goes right through those almost worse than just standing in the rain.  But, one of those stages had a piece of tan canvas up over the board walk at the shooting position.  That piece of canvas was doing a fantastic job of stopping the rain.  Please, just permanently switch out the sun shades over ALL the tables for that same canvas.  It'll look good, stop rain AND sun and you don't have to build anything new.

 

Second issue was that there was nowhere for scorekeepers to keep the books dry.  When the weather is that bad there isn't necessarily room under a shooters cart umbrella for scorekeeping.  People have their own gear piled up trying to keep it dry.  If we didn't have the world's largest gun cart with umbrealla and a fold open table on top it we'd have been in trouble.  I'm not sure if it's possible to stake a canvas cover down securely in that ground but if the weather looks iffy maybe something similar to the loading/unloading frame covers with canvas that the scorekeepers can work under?

 

Last thing is heat.  We shoot in cold and rain all year up here in the NW, but heaters at the loading tables are commonplace (as are rain covered loading and unloading positions).  I realize you might consider the big heaters on the ground too dangerous but after the first day our posse starting carrying a buddy heater and putting it up on the loading table.  The last day first wave the posse in front of us got one too after they saw ours.  It's not down on the ground where it will easily light someone's clothes on fire that way... and it's small.  The small propane bottles are fairly cheap in six packs for this use, most years you wouldn't need them.  But keeping 12 of them on hand would make a big difference when you really need them.

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Slippery boardwalks can be coated with a clear coat with a light brown non skid mixed in ,simple fix . :FlagAm:

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1 hour ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said:

Slippery boardwalks can be coated with a clear coat with a light brown non skid mixed in ,simple fix . :FlagAm:

Ground walnut shells is what is used to paint the deck of many a boat to make them non-slip.

 

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During the main match I spent all three days on the range all day long basically 8-5, if I wasn't shooting I was match RO'ing. The weather was  the worst combination of conditions I've ever shot in. I've been colder, I've been wetter but never all at once LOL. All in all I felt terrible for the good folks of WR to have the weather luck that they did. They made the best of a bad week and the match was great. I shot my worst 4 stages on Saturday.........the nice day LOL so I have no room to complain as apparently this Michigan boy felt more at home in the bad weather. I'm not sure what one can do that they didn't do that would be practical in such conditions. I'm just lucky that I listened to the little voice that told me to throw in my mud boots and heavy Carhartt jacket. I'll be back next year after all a terrible day in AZ is better than an average Feb. day in MI and it beats working. 

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2 hours ago, Fast Enuff said:

I have to disagree completely with above comments about the boardwalks being a problem.  Any slipping on the boardwalks, while always a potential, was nothing in comparison to the slipping and sinking and inability to even walk in the mud itself.  The boardwalks were the only reason many of the shooters got through the match at all.  Stage 6 was just plain treacherous.  I don't know whether boardwalk is the fix for that one or not.  Lots of gravel would be the ultimate fix. :)

 

For those who weren't there, to get an idea of the weather... footwear rules were thrown out for all categories the entire match and rubber boots with tread were specifically allowed also.

 

The following are some ideas for the future to make bad weather more bearable with a minimum of work:

 

On stages 1-4 the loading/unloading tables have sun shades but the rain goes right through those almost worse than just standing in the rain.  But, one of those stages had a piece of tan canvas up over the board walk at the shooting position.  That piece of canvas was doing a fantastic job of stopping the rain.  Please, just permanently switch out the sun shades over ALL the tables for that same canvas.  It'll look good, stop rain AND sun and you don't have to build anything new.

 

Second issue was that there was nowhere for scorekeepers to keep the books dry.  When the weather is that bad there isn't necessarily room under a shooters cart umbrella for scorekeeping.  People have their own gear piled up trying to keep it dry.  If we didn't have the world's largest gun cart with umbrealla and a fold open table on top it we'd have been in trouble.  I'm not sure if it's possible to stake a canvas cover down securely in that ground but if the weather looks iffy maybe something similar to the loading/unloading frame covers with canvas that the scorekeepers can work under?

 

Last thing is heat.  We shoot in cold and rain all year up here in the NW, but heaters at the loading tables are commonplace (as are rain covered loading and unloading positions).  I realize you might consider the big heaters on the ground too dangerous but after the first day our posse starting carrying a buddy heater and putting it up on the loading table.  The last day first wave the posse in front of us got one too after they saw ours.  It's not down on the ground where it will easily light someone's clothes on fire that way... and it's small.  The small propane bottles are fairly cheap in six packs for this use, most years you wouldn't need them.  But keeping 12 of them on hand would make a big difference when you really need them.

useful thoughts - We definitely need tarps instead of sun shades for this type of weather.  

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On 2/26/2019 at 2:41 PM, Dead_Head said:

Great shoot.

 

It is probably time for them to figure out how to put some wooden walkways down on Stage 6 in case it does rain/sleet/hail/snow and all that nice dirt/clay turns into mud.  It wasn't bad for my posse by the time I shot it late Saturday, but most of the posses had a heck of a mess to deal with.

 

The walkways sure have made a positive difference on the other stages.

We have already decided to do that Dead Head, there will be boardwalk in stage 6, which means we probably won't have rain on Winter Range again for 5+ years.:D

 

TB

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