More about derringers...

[Carolina Gunslinger]

They're a hoot! I got a Bond Mini .45 today and wow it's fun to shoot! I sent some of Lead Ringer's 160 grain magical bullets down range with 6.0 grains of Titegroup and it was a blast. There was no oppressive recoil or anything bad to write home about. I did have a light strike on the top barrel, but I haven't been able to repeat this so I believe it was probably an improperly seated primer. I have figured out how to hold for consistent strikes on a four inch plate at about 12 yards. Now if this rain would stop I could see just how it prints on paper and really dial it in. Can't wait to play with it more and stretch out the range a bit. 

 

Here it is dressed for social and recreational outings.

[Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223]

Now you need a 22LR or mag barrel. Cheaper to shoot and practice. I have the Snake Slayer in 45 Colt/410. When they had a discount on barrels several Years ago, I bought a 22 mag barrel.

Fun to shoot the Bond Derringers. My fun load is shooting 454 round balls under a case full of APP in 45 Cowboy special brass.

Don't get carried away like I have and get the thing engraved. (Engraving by Jim Downing)

[watab kid]

im still looking for one , ive looked at a few at gunshows and not found just the one that spoke to me yet , 

[Carolina Gunslinger]

5 hours ago, Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223 said:

Now you need a 22LR or mag barrel. Cheaper to shoot and practice. I have the Snake Slayer in 45 Colt/410. When they had a discount on barrels several Years ago, I bought a 22 mag barrel.

Fun to shoot the Bond Derringers. My fun load is shooting 454 round balls under a case full of APP in 45 Cowboy special brass.

Don't get carried away like I have and get the thing engraved. (Engraving by Jim Downing)

 

That sure is fancy! I like it! 

I have slicked mine up inside and it is quite favorable now. I enjoyed shooting it a bit this morning. I fired 20 rounds of 160 grain LRNFP and 2 of the Barnes XPB HP 200 grain on a paper target to see POA/POI. The Barnes load is a lot more noise, flash and recoil, but it delivered it acceptably. I'm still learning how to hold this gun and not torque it during the firing. It's a pussycat with a light hold just letting it roll back under recoil. Very nice. If you need to go fast just death grip it and it is still manageable. I could shoot a .44 Magnum with no trouble, but I just don't have dies, bullets, or cases for it. The trouble with extra barrels is that I will end up with one I just don't use. It's a .45 Colt and if I need to economize, I'll use CS length brass. However, I will be on the lookout for another barrel if they come cheap enough...for preparedness sake. 

[Carolina Gunslinger]

5 hours ago, watab kid said:

im still looking for one , ive looked at a few at gunshows and not found just the one that spoke to me yet , 

I got this one for $380 shipped from Tin Star Shooting Range in Oklahoma. They will sit on your order for 48 hours, but they shipped it quick after that. GunBroker to a Pawn Shop deal... really good and easy process. 

[Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223]

Do not worry about the caliber. If it is not the Kalifornia edition, you can swap barrels. One can always sell the barrel & replace with a desired one of choice.

I had my main spring replaced with a factory reduced spring, at Winter range a few years back. 

I carry mine in a X-draw holster.

[Carolina Gunslinger]

12 hours ago, Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223 said:

Do not worry about the caliber. If it is not the Kalifornia edition, you can swap barrels. One can always sell the barrel & replace with a desired one of choice.

I had my main spring replaced with a factory reduced spring, at Winter range a few years back. 

I carry mine in a X-draw holster.

 

I hear you there. I'm just not sure what is better than .45 Colt. I have had a handgun in that caliber around since I was 12 or 13 years old. I don't roll .44-40 so that's a non starter for me as I don't have any .43 projectiles. I could disappear down the .38-40 and 10mm rabbit holes though. I have the components laying about and it wouldn't be too terribly difficult to talk them into making me a barrel for the .38-40. J Bar has already begun to giggle. 

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

I have a Bond Texas Defender with both a 38/357 Mag & .22LR in 3" barrels. They are a hoot to shoot!

[Major E A Sterner #12916]

I have a Bond with .357 Mag, .45 Colt and .45 Colt/.410 barrels. I'd like to sell or trade off the .45 Colt barrel for something different, Maybe a .45a.c.p. or a .44 Special.

[Carolina Gunslinger]

10 hours ago, Major E A Sterner #12916 said:

I have a Bond with .357 Mag, .45 Colt and .45 Colt/.410 barrels. I'd like to sell or trade off the .45 Colt barrel for something different, Maybe a .45a.c.p. or a .44 Special.

I ha e come to learn that while the 2.5" barrel is incredibly handy, there is an optimal barrel length somewhere between 3 and 4" for handling purposes. 

[Cypress Sam, SASS #10915]

I’ve always liked Derringers.  Here’s 3 American Derringer models in .22 RF, 32-20 and .38 spa along with an original Remington in .41 RF.

[Carolina Gunslinger]

The more I shoot this thing, the more I am love with it. I fired fifty rounds in a row through it the other day and would have done more had I not run out of light. 

 

The learning curve is steep and I'm bouncing off of it at times. For instance I'm not sure it prefers CCI Magnum large pistol primers and when I get the occasional light strike with CBC brass I forget I have to cock it not once, but twice to get back on the correct barrel. I caught myself moving the shell into the wrong barrel the other day and skipping the firing barrel. Frustrating for sure. I also tend to shoot at smaller steel targets but fail to consider the barrel firing in my sight picture which increases the difficulty quite a bit.

I'm going back and forth between bottom barrel first or last and have come up with a few questions. 

What bullet weights are you using in .45?

For accuracy vs. speed shooting is there a benefit to firing the bottom barrel first? 

Does anyone have tips or video on speed reloading a derringer? 

Does anyone have any pet loads to share in .45 Colt or CS?

Thanks!

[Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223]

For EDC, I load the Colt 45 in the top barrel, better accuracy with the top barrel sight. The 410 is in the bottom barrel. Hammer is set for the 410 to go first followed by the 45 colt.

The barrels are not adjusted for the same POI, so if you load two 45 colts, one in each barrel. One must decide where they want that first shot to hit.

I carry the Hornady Critical Defense 180 Gr. load 45 colt.

[Charlie T Waite]

1 hour ago, Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223 said:

For EDC, I load the Colt 45 in the top barrel, better accuracy with the top barrel sight. The 410 is in the bottom barrel. Hammer is set for the 410 to go first followed by the 45 colt.

The barrels are not adjusted for the same POI, so if you load two 45 colts, one in each barrel. One must decide where they want that first shot to hit.

I carry the Hornady Critical Defense 180 Gr. load 45 colt.

 Have you tried the Liberty LACD45031 Civil Defense 45 LC 78 GR LF?  These are only 78 grains, which is only about 1/3 the mass of a normal. 45 Colt (typically they are 225 to 250 grains), a pretty fast round at 1800 fps.  The new .45 Long Colt is a copper, monolithic, hollow-point fragmenting round with a weight of 78 grains and a velocity of 1800 FPS delivering almost twice the speed of the traditional round.  It delivers less recoil than a traditional .45 Long Colt, taking the discomfort out and makes big bore caliber manageable for all levels of shooters.  Have had it since it came out and I am very impressed by the round; especially out of my derringer.

[Carolina Gunslinger]

6 hours ago, Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223 said:

For EDC, I load the Colt 45 in the top barrel, better accuracy with the top barrel sight. The 410 is in the bottom barrel. Hammer is set for the 410 to go first followed by the 45 colt.

The barrels are not adjusted for the same POI, so if you load two 45 colts, one in each barrel. One must decide where they want that first shot to hit.

I carry the Hornady Critical Defense 180 Gr. load 45 colt.

It appears they are just straight bored...I'm happy with how the 200 grain Barnes XPB HP shoots. My 160 grain practice loads are coming along...It's all I have right now. I'm figuring out how much powder needs to go in the shell to stabilize the loads. Maybe Titegroup is not the answer I seek. 

4 hours ago, Charlie T Waite said:

 Have you tried the Liberty LACD45031 Civil Defense 45 LC 78 GR LF?  These are only 78 grains, which is only about 1/3 the mass of a normal. 45 Colt (typically they are 225 to 250 grains), a pretty fast round at 1800 fps.  The new .45 Long Colt is a copper, monolithic, hollow-point fragmenting round with a weight of 78 grains and a velocity of 1800 FPS delivering almost twice the speed of the traditional round.  It delivers less recoil than a traditional .45 Long Colt, taking the discomfort out and makes big bore caliber manageable for all levels of shooters.  Have had it since it came out and I am very impressed by the round; especially out of my derringer.

What make and barrel length?

What is the difference between POA and POI?

Have you seen if the projectile will expand?

[G W Wade]

I have Bond that came with 45 Colt/ 410 bbl.     Shoots 410 slugs very well.   Picked up a 357 Mag barrel.    Took a while but worked  out duplex loading.   I found a 130gr lead in the top barrel and a 160gr lead in the bottom regulates so do not have to try to keep track of which barrel is going to fire next.  Color code primers to separate with a magic marker.     GW      

[Charlie T Waite]

11 hours ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

It appears they are just straight bored...I'm happy with how the 200 grain Barnes XPB HP shoots. My 160 grain practice loads are coming along...It's all I have right now. I'm figuring out how much powder needs to go in the shell to stabilize the loads. Maybe Titegroup is not the answer I seek. 

What make and barrel length?

What is the difference between POA and POI?

Have you seen if the projectile will expand?

45/410 w/3.5" barrel

.75-1"

Blew a frozen 7lbs bone in ham apart @ 7yds out of the 3.5" barrel.

[Carolina Gunslinger]

2 hours ago, Charlie T Waite said:

45/410 w/3.5" barrel

.75-1"

Blew a frozen 7lbs bone in ham apart @ 7yds out of the 3.5" barrel.

Interesting! Each barrel is approximately an inch high or low of POA? Well that is good to know. May have to try this ammo. 

[Carolina Gunslinger]

So I have acquired an American on top of the Bond. The Bond is definitely better out of the box. The trigger on the American was rough and had a nasty burr on the full cock notch. After a bit of stoning I got it to a serviceable weight with a smooth break. I really like the American for looks and find it easier to cock than the Bond. 

 

I've heard the Liberty Ammo load suggestion which are unobtanium locally. Does anyone actually carry one in .45 Colt and have a favorite full power load other than that? The 200 grain Vortx doesn't expand when fired into sand out of the Bond. I have shot some warmer 300 grain Sierra soft points and that was a fun ride. So if anybody has any working loads I'm interested. 

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

Mine has the longer barl and is chambered for the 45/410 combo now.  I used it as a side match piece early on when it still had a short barl but converted it to be a fishing companion after side matches became a once a year affair back when and figure that the snakes and gators better better mind their manners iffen they see me out in the kayak now days!  Since becoming old and senile, I seem to jist take her and the GOV out just occasionally to make sure they are not making any new little 45s in that drawer when I am not looking!

 

PS:  Mostly keep them loaded with stacked 410 shells and birdshot.  Waiting for them to come out with a 460mag barl so as I can also keep a bear load handy also.  

 

  

[Carolina Gunslinger]

6 hours ago, Slowhand Bob, 24229 said:

Mine has the longer barl and is chambered for the 45/410 combo now.  I used it as a side match piece early on when it still had a short barl but converted it to be a fishing companion after side matches became a once a year affair back when and figure that the snakes and gators better better mind their manners iffen they see me out in the kayak now days!  Since becoming old and senile, I seem to jist take her and the GOV out just occasionally to make sure they are not making any new little 45s in that drawer when I am not looking!

 

PS:  Mostly keep them loaded with stacked 410 shells and birdshot.  Waiting for them to come out with a 460mag barl so as I can also keep a bear load handy also.  

 

  

Haha! That'll be the day! Making guns for you...

 

So you can breathe easy and not waste your time on the .460 barrel. I recently had a long conversation with Bond Customer Service. Turns out they were developing a  .44 Magnum barrel recently (announced at 2018 Shot) and had the intention of going on to a .454 barrel after that. The recoil was too severe for the testers and they kept cracking grips. Why they didn't partner with Hogue was not discussed. I was curious about the .460 barrel as well because if they got the .454 proofed then a .460 would definitely be doable. I got the impression that the creature comforts and recoil mitigation is the driving force behind the expressed limitations. The individual with whom I spoke, indicated that there had been reports of folks injured by recoil loading +P bear loads in the .45 Colt loadings. Bond Arms appears to have taken the position that they'd like to head off negative reviews of folks getting injured by recoil by stating that heavy loads are against their recommendations. From my experience, the recoil does increase markedly above 200 grains and folks are well advised to limit their loads to something between SAA and Ruger loads. 

 

For your bear load, I think you can find anything you need with a 300 grain solid and about 7-7.5 grains of Titegroup. It will be stout and not something you will want to shoot more than a handful of times. You're not going to get expansion in the hollow points out of those short barrels unless you know of something that functions under 650 fps. 

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

Actually I still have this pipe dream of getting the BIG S&W 460 mag with a longer barl for (no real reason other than I want one) but might not be able to handle it any longer due to wrist problems.  When the 460 and the 500 first came out they were both hands full and could bring smiles to the face of any big bore fan and I woul;d recommend them to any younger guys for uhhhh (make up your own excuse)!  I do still have this dream of joining you guys for a few more matches (perhaps this year) if things go right.  Last time The Bear and I traveled to Columbia for a match he had a ball and actually done well but my day didnt go as well, to many brain failures????  Anyone hear anything out of Surly Dave any more?? hope he is doing well and would love to see him again.