Alpo Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I was thinking about the female Yankee habit of being offended when someone call them ma'am. Then the Castle television show popped into mind. After they killed Captain Montgomery, they replaced him with Captain Victoria Gates. The first time Beckett meets her, she calls her ma'am. Captain Gates responds, "If my mother shows up here you can call her ma'am. You call me sir." I suppose that would work up in Yankee land, where people do not routinely and politely call women ma'am. But I don't think I could do it. Could you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Harley, #14153 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 If the officer insisted, I suppose I could do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocWard Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I think I would just say "Let's just save us both some headaches and I'll call you 'Captain.'" Then I would explain the same thing I once told a young lady who objected to me holding a door for her. "My mother and other ancestors would come back and haunt me if I didn't." I've seen and read some science fiction where female officers were referred to as Sir or Mister, but always figured, heck, it's science fiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I’ve always had the attitude that I would play the game I was required to play. If protocol requires it I will do it, especially if it butters my bread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, DocWard said: female officers were referred to as Sir or Mister, I wondered about that. Maybe even posted my wonder, but I'm not sure. U.S. Navy junior officers - O1 and O2, not sure about O3 - have traditionally been called Mister. So would Ensign Sally Rogers be Mr. Rogers? Miss Rogers? Has the term gone away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I loved that show but that was the stupidest thing I ever saw on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 My question is not so much "would you do it, even though it is stupid", but more "COULD you do it?" After more than 60 years of calling women ma'am, I don't think I could call a woman sir. I suppose that I could, if thinking about it, call her sir. "Sir, can I have the day off tomorrow?" But if just responding without thinking - "I need you to work overtime tonight to get this finished". YES MA'AM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I would use the rank or title rather than the gender specific Sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said: I loved that show but that was the stupidest thing I ever saw on it! I thought it was a tie. Once they became a couple, they had to hide their relationship, because the department had a policy against co-workers dating. In season 2, Beckett was dating a burglary cop. In season 3, the Esposito was dating Lanie. But in season 4 Castle and Beckett have to hide their relationship so she doesn't get fired? I also had a little problem with Detective Beckett ordering the other two detectives around like she was their boss. Then going straight from detective to Captain. What happened to Sergeant and lieutenant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 15 minutes ago, Alpo said: I thought it was a tie. Once they became a couple, they had to hide their relationship, because the department had a policy against co-workers dating. In season 2, Beckett was dating a burglary cop. In season 3, the Esposito was dating Lanie. But in season 4 Castle and Beckett have to hide their relationship so she doesn't get fired? I also had a little problem with Detective Beckett ordering the other two detectives around like she was their boss. Then going straight from detective to Captain. What happened to Sergeant and lieutenant? I always thought Beckett was a Lt. That’s why she was in charge of the other detectives. They never called her Sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 They never referred to her as "Lieutenant Beckett". It was always "Detective Beckett". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I always thought Beckett was a Lt. NYPD has different grades of Detectives. Maybe she was a 1st class or something. And Nathan Fillions’s new show The Rookie is the dumbest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 According to Wiki, Beckett was a 3rd Grade Dectective in charge of the squad. I guess 3rd grade is a big deal. Beckett became the youngest woman on the force to be appointed Detective 3rd Grade (beating out her future captain, Victoria Gates (Penny Johnson Jerald), by six weeks).[3] By 2009, Beckett was the lead detective of the 12th Precinct's Detective Squad, specializing in murder investigations. She worked with fellow detectives Javier Esposito (Jon Huertas) and Kevin Ryan (Seamus Dever) and medical examiner Lanie Parish (Tamala Jones) under Captain Roy Montgomery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Definitely not a Sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 There were three or four things Brooke showed up almost every episode. Annoying, at least to me. No one was ever "shot". They always had one or more "GSW". Lanie would never know for sure until she "got him on the slab". I know that in a the report, GSW is quicker and easier to write than Gunshot Wound. But no one ever ever ever got shot. That just sounded strange. That's something I really liked about NCIS. Ducky will tell Jimmy, "We need to get him home", or they would go "back to the lab". They were never "vics", they were "victims". Real cops and MEs might say things like that, but it just sounds crude. Another thing is, "we're done". You might not notice this if you watch the show once a week when it was on. But when you take the DVDs and binge watch it, watching five or six episodes in night for a week, this is extremely obvious. Every single episode someone will say, in a tone of finality, WE'RE DONE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said: Beckett became the youngest woman on the force to be appointed Detective 3rd Grade (beating out her future captain, Victoria Gates (Penny Johnson Jerald), by six weeks Wiki is incorrect. I just looked at the DVD. "Detective Beckett. Your reputation precedes you. Youngest woman to make Detective - you beat me by six weeks." No mention of what grade of detective. And wouldn't a detective third be lower on the food chain than a detective first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 2 hours ago, DocWard said: I think I would just say "Let's just save us both some headaches and I'll call you 'Captain.'" Then I would explain the same thing I once told a young lady who objected to me holding a door for her. "My mother and other ancestors would come back and haunt me if I didn't." I've seen and read some science fiction where female officers were referred to as Sir or Mister, but always figured, heck, it's science fiction. I once worked with a woman who objected to people holding the door for her. I would do it for anyone following me until I was warned about her. She was a notorious b----. She even used a walker. One day, on my way, with co-workers, to get coffee, I opened the door and it hit her walker. I didn't notice her on the other side of the door. She harangued me for "doing it on purpose." When we got to the cafeteria, I saw our boss's boss and told her what happened as a warning what she might expect. Next thing we knew, walker b---- retired. <insert evil laugh emoji> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said: Definitely not a Sir. Go up 4 buttons on the corset, from there down she is a Sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 3 hours ago, DocWard said: I think I would just say "Let's just save us both some headaches and I'll call you 'Captain.'" Then I would explain the same thing I once told a young lady who objected to me holding a door for her. "My mother and other ancestors would come back and haunt me if I didn't." I've seen and read some science fiction where female officers were referred to as Sir or Mister, but always figured, heck, it's science fiction. A woman in California: "You don't have to open a door for me because I'm a woman." Me: "I'm opening it for you because I'm a gentleman." What she said wasn't lady-like nor would I repeat it most company I know. She really came unwound when I walked away laughing at her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Kit Cool Gun Garth Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I've ALWAYS opened doors for anyone because that was how I was raised. I call men Sir and women Ma'am because that was what I was taught. If referencing any official its by their title, be it Officer (police), Military (by rank), or any other title such as Commissioner, Senator or Mayor. It's called respect! Something sorely missed on these recent generations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Alpo said: I thought it was a tie. Once they became a couple, they had to hide their relationship, because the department had a policy against co-workers dating. In season 2, Beckett was dating a burglary cop. In season 3, the Esposito was dating Lanie. But in season 4 Castle and Beckett have to hide their relationship so she doesn't get fired? I also had a little problem with Detective Beckett ordering the other two detectives around like she was their boss. Then going straight from detective to Captain. What happened to Sergeant and lieutenant? You have WAYYYYYYYYYYYYY to much free time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoken D Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 The wife being an Army Lt. and me an Army Buck Sgt. I calls her what ever she tells me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I think that using "Sir" when addressing a female superior started with "Star Trek, The Wrath of Kahn". Spock refers to Lt. Savic as "Mr. Savic". In that context, when dealing with races that "Sir" or "Ma'am" might not be appropriate, using one honorific for all makes sense. Later, we started seeing it more widely used. If in a service where it was customary to address a female as "Sir", I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Sir -used as a polite or respectful way of addressing a man, especially one in a position of authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Crimes Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I have never heard of this issue over here. Our female Offrs are Ma'am and there is no issue with it. Although I did work with a guy who had an unusually high voice and he would answer the phone "CAPT Sharman, and DONT CALL ME MA'AM!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Ron Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Howdy, Now you can go watch Scent of a Woman. pards Best CR And where did that gunslinger in black come from? I don't remember such movie..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said: I think that using "Sir" when addressing a female superior started with "Star Trek, The Wrath of Kahn". Spock refers to Lt. Savic as "Mr. Savic". In that context, when dealing with races that "Sir" or "Ma'am" might not be appropriate, using one honorific for all makes sense. Later, we started seeing it more widely used. If in a service where it was customary to address a female as "Sir", I would. Watch it again. I think he calls her "Mistress Savi". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 I've heard that one must earn respect. IMNSHO you address people with respect until you are shown by their actions that they are undeserving of respect. Even then, you should be cautious of showing disrespect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulshan 20262 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Right on, Allie Mo! With utmost respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said: Watch it again. I think he calls her "Mistress Savi". Nope. https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/why-do-they-call-her-mister-saavik.97993/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Chili Ron said: Howdy, Now you can go watch Scent of a Woman. pards Best CR And where did that gunslinger in black come from? I don't remember such movie..... That’s Beckett, the NYPD dective in the Castle tv series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 8 hours ago, Alpo said: Wiki is incorrect. I just looked at the DVD. "Detective Beckett. Your reputation precedes you. Youngest woman to make Detective - you beat me by six weeks." No mention of what grade of detective. And wouldn't a detective third be lower on the food chain than a detective first? Apparently it’s dectective 3rd, 2nd, and 1st like Petty Officers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 As to the original question: NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Sheridan Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 8 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said: Definitely not a Sir. Old West frontiersmen could only WISH their lasses looked like that. Every time I see an authentic Old West picture the clothing is the only way to separate the men from the, umm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted February 24, 2019 Author Share Posted February 24, 2019 25 minutes ago, Utah Bob #35998 said: Apparently it’s dectective 3rd, 2nd, and 1st like Petty Officers. Yeah. I looked ip the NYPD rank structure. Detectives start as 3rd grade. 2nd and 1st don't really give them authority, but they get more money. Since they start as a 3rd, technically wiki is right when they said she "became the youngest woman on the force to be appointed Detective 3 rd Grade", butbthe quote was just "detective". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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