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Shooting Bull

‘73 ejection problem

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I have two ‘73s. Only one of them is having this problem so I believe it’s the rifle, not the shooter. (If you’re going to take advantage of that set up you better make it good :P)

 

Not every round. Just occasionally a round will fully extract from the chambers not eject. It will  “hang up” at about a 30 degree mouth up angle. I have to push the case back down with my thumb and I can then complete the lever stroke to eject the case. 

 

This only happens at speed. When I try to duplicate the problem in slow motion everything works fine. 

 

My WAG is some sort of timing issue but I don’t know how to find out nor how to fix it. 

 

Any ideas? 

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I imagine you've take the extractor out and cleaned it well

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Does the gun have new parts?

 

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13 minutes ago, Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 said:

I imagine you've take the extractor out and cleaned it well

 

I’ve done a thorough cleaning but no, didn’t go so far as to remove the extractor.

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Is there a burr on the carrier that the cartridge rim might be catching on?

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Flash said:

Does the gun have new parts?

 

 

New? Tons of aftermarket parts but none of them are what I’d call new. Everything’s years old with thousands of rounds through them.

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1 minute ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

New? Tons of aftermarket parts but none of them are what I’d call new. Everything’s years old with thousands of rounds through them.

New to that gun?

 

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maybe the extractor is worn,, ie not a  sharp edge to help hold brass tightly to it?

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or the lifter is worn and not lifting carrier consistently high enough to pitch the brass?

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Do you have an Aluminum carrier?

 

Is it timed correctly after some wear?

 

Ol'  #4

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This thread was about the same problem you are having. Ejection Problem

 

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First, check the cartridge support tab at bottom of bolt face.  It HAS to be straight and without a burr (not bent, or worse, missing)

 

Check how far the carrier is rising when lever is fully forward.  If top edge of carrier is not level with the frame or higher, carrier is not coming up far enough.  The top edge of the carrier is what ejects the cartridge. 

 

And there must be a little "relief" back at the top, case-rim-end of the carrier so that the rim can pivot out from under the extractor and twist up and out as the carrier whacks it.  Look for dings or ragged scratching on the rear top surface of the carrier.

 

Carrier not rising far enough could be one of several things that have "happened" with wear.

1 - lever got bent, by running it fast and hitting a snag of some sort, an OOB discharge, etc, so that at full stroke the lever now does not go far enough to driver the lifter arm

2  - lifter arm got bent, so even if the lever is full forward, the lifter arm is not up high enough

3 -  internals of carrier where the arm lifts it is damaged and worn

4 - timing has gotten off (which can be symptom that is most easily visible from any of the three things listed above are happening, or if there is other wear on the carrier and associated parts.)

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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Must be a first!  Lumpy responded to Bull’s question, gave a good answer and didn’t take advantage.

 

Didn’t even tell Bull to be careful in the rain at WR.

 

Get a doctor, I think something is wrong with Lumpy.

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5 minutes ago, Nasty Nels said:

Must be a first!  Lumpy responded to Bull’s question, gave a good answer and didn’t take advantage.

 

Didn’t even tell Bull to be careful in the rain at WR.

 

Get a doctor, I think something is wrong with Lumpy.

OLG is gettin soft.:lol:

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49 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

If you have a spare extractor(you should), install it now........

OLG

Swap parts from his other '73 until the problem follows the part.

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It's a timing problem.

 

PLUS ONE to Ol' #4

 

As the bolt retracts, the extractor and the cartridge guide retract into the receiver.  This retraction pushes the bottom of the cartridge off the cartridge guide tab so the cartridge can fall out from under the extractor.  The bolt MUST retract fully BEFORE the carrier block hits the case to eject or the case will jam at about that 30 to 45 degree angle.  This same condition can be caused if the operator occasionally short strokes the short stroke.  The lever must run all the forward BEFORE the shooter starts the lever back.

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Somebody’s got to say it............use the other gun :P

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Mr. Bull,

 

I do not know that this is your problem but, when you said it occurs at speed, I remembered a  few rifles with that problem and they took me some time to figure out.

 

The rifles checked out visually to be timed perfectly when functioned slowly --  but when ran at speed, they behaved as if carrier rise was retarded = out of time.

Turned out that the parts were so worn and loose that the momentum from running the gun hard would run the breech bolt back further than when ran slowly. I gutted these guns and installed new, within tolerance, parts  and the rifles were "fixed" . 

As always, your mileage may vary. :D

 

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16 hours ago, Nasty Nels said:

Must be a first!  Lumpy responded to Bull’s question, gave a good answer and didn’t take advantage.

 

Didn’t even tell Bull to be careful in the rain at WR.

 

Get a doctor, I think something is wrong with Lumpy.

Baby steps--:lol:

He's still learn'n to walk.....:P

OLG

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9 hours ago, Wyatt said:

Somebody’s got to say it............use the other gun :P

 

Oh that’s a given. But I’d sure like a reliable back up while at Winter Range.

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I had the same issue. Run it slow it worked

 Run it at speed the empty case stove piped. I cleaned up the burrs on the carrier and it worked a few times. Put in a new carrier and it solved my problem.

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58 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

Oh that’s a given. But I’d sure like a reliable back up while at Winter Range.

So-Who's take'n your place then? :lol::P

OLG

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1 hour ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

So-Who's take'n your place then? :lol::P

OLG

Sorry to hijack the thread again, but that is the Lumpy I know!

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I checked the carrier. I know it’s an aftermarket lightened brass unit. Pretty sure it’s from Cowboy & Indians. It’s already beveled where everybody has recommended. I can’t find any burrs or rough spots. When the lever is closed the carrier is even with the bottom of the frame. With the lever fully open the carrier rises above the frame by 2/10 of an inch. 

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1 hour ago, Shooting Bull said:

I checked the carrier. I know it’s an aftermarket lightened brass unit. Pretty sure it’s from Cowboy & Indians. It’s already beveled where everybody has recommended. I can’t find any burrs or rough spots. When the lever is closed the carrier is even with the bottom of the frame. With the lever fully open the carrier rises above the frame by 2/10 of an inch. 

Can you post up detailed pictures of the carrier?

OLG

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16 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Can you post up detailed pictures of the carrier?

OLG

This is about as good as I can do

20190217_103613.jpg

20190217_103541.jpg

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Well, you have plenty of bevel on that brass carrier.   BTW - Never seen a dust cover get in the way.  

 

My guess is you are short-stroking the lever at speed.   Have someone else try the gun at speed.  

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

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I am by no means a 73 mechanic but sounds like timing to me. The reason being is the faster you run the rifle, the more precise the timing has to be. Ever notice a methodical shooter will say they have the best rifle ever but when someone else applies some speed they have problems? Thats why. My best swag (scientific wild azz guess) is a worn thingamabob. 

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43 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

worn thingamabob.

 

I don't know why after 146 years no one has come up with a perfect, indestructible thingamabob!  :lol:

 

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3 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

I don't know why after 146 years no one has come up with a perfect, indestructible thingamabob!  :lol:

 

Yep. Everybody knows those thingamabobs go out all the time and a good one is hard to find.B)

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I'm by no means a gunsmith this very problem happened to me last week and after much searching and changing out parts the carrier is what fixed mine

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1 hour ago, Tennessee williams said:

Yep. Everybody knows those thingamabobs go out all the time and a good one is hard to find.B)

The only reason they go bad is incorrect installation.

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